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"Air-to-air victory" vs "Air-to-air kill"


Brainless

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Hi,

I'm not native English speaker and I have this question:

Is there any difference between terms: "Air-to-air victory" and "Air-to-air kill"?

Is the air kill mean to kill the pilot or just to shot down the plane?

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Kill could just mean to down the plane.

Victory could mean that you succeed in your Air to air mission, not necessarily that you shot down all bandits.

Or instance, if your goal was to gain air supremacy an air to air victory might mean only shooting down a few enemy planes and chasing off the rest.

 

Hope that helps.

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"Kill" usually refers to shooting down the plane.

 

I don't think there is any specific word or phrase to describe the death of a pilot.

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Thank you for the replies. I was almost sure for the meaning, but decided to ask.

Today I read an article (translated from bbc site), where "kill" was translated as "murder" in my native language and it sounds totally wrong to me.

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Whenever an aircraft is shot down by another aircraft or anti-air system, it's a "kill".

 

I once saw a statement by an F-15C pilot who summed it up in his view that once the aircraft is destroyed, his task is complete. It's not necessary for the opposing pilot to be dead, which is why you wouldn't gun the pilot in their chute.

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which is why you wouldn't gun the pilot in their chute.

 

Also it's a war crime by Geneva Convention

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I pilot would also announce a 'Kill' if he shoots down a pilotless drone or simple causes an enemy to belly land in a field. It is more about destruction of an enemy vehicle. Badly damaging someone who still may have got home and landed OK is not a kill (though a greedy pilot may try to claim it as one)

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Traditionally pilots have been known to try to prevent the opposing pilots death. There are many occasions in WW2 where even Luftwaffe pilots would deliberately aim at other parts of an enemy fighter instead of the cockpit. Many even wanted to make sure they saw the pilots bailing out.

 

There are even a few cases where a downed Llied pilot was taken in as a guest and then made sure his unit knew the pilot was safe and sound. Air combat is not about killing your opponent literally. It is about the challenge and the fight itself. And making sure the opponents aircraft is unable to do it's job.

 

Regards,

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tell that to von richthofen, who specifically instructed to gun for the pilot!

 

granted the more powerful armaments post ww1 made it a lot more practical to win quickly by killing the plane instead of the pilot.


Edited by probad
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Thank you for the replies. I was almost sure for the meaning, but decided to ask.

Today I read an article (translated from bbc site), where "kill" was translated as "murder" in my native language and it sounds totally wrong to me.

 

Kill doesn't always mean murder

 

Kill can mean murder, destroy, stop, overexert, end, delete, overwhelm and more.

 

To turn the switch off - kill the switch

To make someone laugh - you're killing me

To make an off topic post in a thread - kill the thread

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I'm going to pull an excerpt from one of my favorite reads in the last year, "A Higher Call," written about Franz Stigler and his experience over Northern Germany on December 20th, 1943. This part of the book is documenting Franz's time with Jagdgeschwader 27 in North Africa.

 

"Every time you go up, you'll be outnumbered," he said. Franz nodded, wishing Roedel was exaggerating but knowing better,

"Those odds may make a man want to fight dirty to survive," Roedel said, squeezing the bunched up leather gloves in his hands. "But let what I'm about to say to you act as a warning. Honor is everything here." Franz shrugged, unsure where Roedel was going with the talk. "What will you do, Stigler [Franz], for instance, if you find your enemy floating in a parachute?"

"I guess I've never thought that far ahead yet," Franz said.

"If I ever see or hear of you shooting a man in a parachute," Roedel said, "I will shoot you down myself." "You follow the rules of war for you, not for the enemy. You fight by the rules to keep your humanity."

 

There's another excerpt later on that goes along with this topic well: [The background: Franz and his wingman, Voegl, come home after a flight on which Franz scored his first victory.]

 

"Then why are you both smiling?" Roedel asked, his eyes emotional.

"Because of his [Franz's] first kill," Voegl said.

Roedel dropped his arms to his sides.

"You score victories, not kills," Roedel said to Voegl, frustrated.

"Haven't you learned anything?" Turning to Franz, Roedel added,

"You shoot at a machine, not a man."

Roedel looked like he was going to say something more, but he shook his head and walked away.

 

For those interested in the book, go pick it up. It's a fantastic read.

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Nice, really reminds us of the focus a pilot or soldier has to keep:thumbup:

 

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