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How to see "specks"...


JazonXD

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Whenever I'm watching Ralfi or Hellreign82 play, they can always see some "specks on the horizon"... I can never manage to see anything even with the zoom view all they way in. I can only find the little dot flying around the sky if I already painted them with the radar, even then it's still a challenge sometimes. I swear I've got good eyesight (20/20). Has everyone moved onto MkII eyeballs while I'm still stuck on the MkI? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

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A little advice from RL experience of trying to spot aircraft - you want to be looking for 'movement' as opposed to trying to discern actual aircraft shapes so to speak. The human eye is highly adept at spotting movement.

Generally you just take in the whole range of vision and allow your eyes to notice the movement - that was how I generally always gained first visual contact with airborne targets in RL.. There are also the factors of size and shape that you need to adapty to the situation - but that just comes with experience, i.e. you will know what the specific aircraft will look like size wise at the predicted range etc.

 

Also be aware that the human eye requires approx 2 seconds to see and recognise something - if you are just quickly scanning around the sky your eye will never have enough time to actually 'see' anything! Pick a spot, observe in a stationary manner and let your eyes pick up the movement of the target. Scan an area in a logical sequence.

 

Ofc this is just based on spotting a/c in RL - there are many other ocntributing factots. Feel free to google the subject of seeing airborne targets, it is a very well researched and documented area based on the safety implications of see-and-avoid.

 

Two examples:

https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/alc/libview_normal.aspx?id=6851

https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/4050593/see_and_avoid_report_print.pdf

 

 

All the training and experience in the world won't make you spot everything in record time thou (the flight engineer was usually the first though lol). Lets just say it was a sobering experience when we got TCAS installed on our aircraft warning us of all the aircraft we didn't see!


Edited by VampireNZ

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I can only find the little dot flying around the sky if I already painted them with the radar

sounds to me like you actually have an sa issue. you should be able to make sense of where enemies are going to be based on passive intel soak from awacs and kill log.

 

your vision doesnt matter when pixels are the limit, rather the old adage holds true that the eye is blind to what the mind does not see.

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sounds to me like you actually have an sa issue. you should be able to make sense of where enemies are going to be based on passive intel soak from awacs and kill log.

 

your vision doesnt matter when pixels are the limit, rather the old adage holds true that the eye is blind to what the mind does not see.

 

I'm speaking about in general, not only in MP. Sometimes there are missions without AWACS talking in your ear all the time and I don't have the chat log open all the time. I'm speaking about generally if I look in a direction where I expect enemies, there is no way I can see their "specks" unless I hook them up on radar and stare intently at the little highlighted box.

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A little advice from RL experience of trying to spot aircraft - you want to be looking for 'movement' as opposed to trying to discern actual aircraft shapes so to speak. The human eye is highly adept at spotting movement.

Generally you just take in the whole range of vision and allow your eyes to notice the movement - that was how I generally always gained first visual contact with airborne targets in RL.. There are also the factors of size and shape that you need to adapty to the situation - but that just comes with experience, i.e. you will know what the specific aircraft will look like size wise at the predicted range etc.

 

Also be aware that the human eye requires approx 2 seconds to see and recognise something - if you are just quickly scanning around the sky your eye will never have enough time to actually 'see' anything! Pick a spot, observe in a stationary manner and let your eyes pick up the movement of the target. Scan an area in a logical sequence.

 

Ofc this is just based on spotting a/c in RL - there are many other ocntributing factots. Feel free to google the subject of seeing airborne targets, it is a very well researched and documented area based on the safety implications of see-and-avoid.

 

Two examples:

https://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/alc/libview_normal.aspx?id=6851

https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/4050593/see_and_avoid_report_print.pdf

 

 

All the training and experience in the world won't make you spot everything in record time thou (the flight engineer was usually the first though lol). Lets just say it was a sobering experience when we got TCAS installed on our aircraft warning us of all the aircraft we didn't see!

 

Sounds like solid advice! But it seems like that I've subconsciously been trying to do that already :( I understand the eyes find movement a lot easier than shapes so I try to take in the whole scene (or screen) instead of trying to search for movement. I guess I will try to slow down my looking around even more so I have more time to process possible movements. Of course, those few seconds could be your death when you're coming up to a merge...

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I guess I will try to slow down my looking around even more so I have more time to process possible movements. Of course, those few seconds could be your death when you're coming up to a merge...

 

Yep! That's why you really need to work hard on your Situational Awareness to make the best educated guess on the initial scan area you can. Also why it is vital you don't lose visual contact once it has been gained - lose sight lose the fight.

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Also, don't base your ability vs others via youtube videos. Even at full screen and in "HD", the various interactions between the codec, compression, artifacting, and transmission, not to mention they're probably down converting 4k to HD, you're not going to see anything representative of what they actually see on their own monitors at that scale.

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A quick tip: In DCS, the 'specks' become smaller the farther you zoom in. Therefore, at least from my own experiences (using my 2560x1080 monitor), it's a whole lot easier to spot distant aircraft when at a normal zoom level or even slightly zoomed out, which is pretty counter intuitive. Only when you've closed within visual range can you zoom in without loosing sight of your target.

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A quick tip: In DCS, the 'specks' become smaller the farther you zoom in. Therefore, at least from my own experiences (using my 2560x1080 monitor), it's a whole lot easier to spot distant aircraft when at a normal zoom level or even slightly zoomed out, which is pretty counter intuitive. Only when you've closed within visual range can you zoom in without loosing sight of your target.

 

Interesting... any reason as to why this is?

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Interesting... any reason as to why this is?

 

The current visual "aids" that are incorporated into DCS are basically this: past a point every aircraft will display as one pixel. As in one pixel of your complete resolution. Unfortunately the way this is implemented right now is through FOV. The SIM calculates this distance based on your field of view. Zooming basically decreases your fov, so the dot is not displayed.

 

Another problem with this is that on monitors with very high resolutions (high pixel density) but a small screen size relative to it, the dots are so small they are almost impossible to pick up.

 

Basically what this means is that for DCS you need the largest monitor you can afford at the lowest resolution possible for best spotting results.

 

At close ranges though, when the LOD model is displayed this changes again. And the high resolution monitors have an advantage again.

 

In short. Visibility is very hard in DCS.

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Pareidolia is your friend, well mine anyway. :thumbup:

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Spotting in DCS is horrible. Against humans, you both have similar problems, although there are massive differences with setups. Against AI, you really do have to use labels.

 

Not being able to see enemy aircraft 500m away is insane, yet this frequently happens in DCS.

 

Against AI, it is often a good idea to let them get on your tail so at least you have some idea where they are.

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Pareidolia is your friend, well mine anyway. :thumbup:

 

Hahaha, would you care to explain how this applies? :p

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Back in the day, guys found that the more you sharpened graphics, the harder it became to see a dot. Still applies.

 

Spotting contacts is near impossible in DCS (IMHO). Harder than any other sim I've been in. I'm glad I retired from combat. :)

 

 

Spotting in DCS is horrible. Against humans, you both have similar problems, although there are massive differences with setups. Against AI, you really do have to use labels.

 

Not being able to see enemy aircraft 500m away is insane, yet this frequently happens in DCS.

Against AI, it is often a good idea to let them get on your tail so at least you have some idea where they are.

 

I have started playing DCS for couple of months and only fly on WWII servers, I have experienced and felt the same way as the gentlemen quoting the above, visual spotting and keeping track of a single bogey let alone multiple bogeys, I find is very very hard unless my eyes are glued to the bogey at the cost of SA, and even doing so the bogey tends to blend in with the terrain, sea or even the dark sky above.:mad:

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Another problem with this is that on monitors with very high resolutions (high pixel density) but a small screen size relative to it, the dots are so small they are almost impossible to pick up.

 

Basically what this means is that for DCS you need the largest monitor you can afford at the lowest resolution possible for best spotting results.

 

In short. Visibility is very hard in DCS.

 

Exactly, this is why my friends and I don't feel guilty for using a labels mod I made, it makes the actual spotting dynamic more realistic, but yes you lose realism by having an artificial blue/red ^ on an aircraft and a - on ground units. No text, just that. They are small, but again it nerfs the '1440p vs your eye' situation if you know what I mean.

 

I know this won't help on MP servers, but it works for single player and groups of friends playing together.

 

If anyone is interested in trying it out, put this in your users/yourname/savedgames/dcs.openalpha/config/view folder it only loads after your labels file so it doesnt overwrite it, you can just delete if you don't like it.

 

Normal https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByhQ1W740NKGY2JuQ0dxeWZ0WGM

 

Even smaller labels https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByhQ1W740NKGZnBlMDY1M1B0elU

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