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More Historical Missle Variety


frixon28

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Hello all,

I was wondering what your guys thoughts would be on adding more historical missles to the Eagle. This would include the AIM-7F, AIM-9L, Python 2 and 3 missle series. I am assuminng the AIM-7P that entered service in 1987 (last main production series of the Sparrow) saw service on the USAF top fighter before the introduction of the AIM-120, so if possible I request that would be added in too if accurate. Maybe I am one of the limited few but I enjoy playing the Eagle in Cold War scenarios, and yes while we can do 1982+ scenarios, I would enjoy using the F15C with the missles it was introduced with. Its important to remember that even if a missle was introuduced or entered production in a certain year, does not mean the older types of missles were just thrown away and never saw service. For instance our earliest AMRAAM in game did not enter service until 1994, meaning that if we had the P model (if it saw service on Eagles) its improvement would be much enjoyed over Mike models.

 

I think the key question is whether or not the developers will think it worth spending time and money making these new missles. Some players would think these new missles will greatly increase realism in certain scenarios and there use in the Mission Editor, however I think those players (including myself) are in the minorty. While others (I believe the majoirty) just see these missles as simply inferior to the current AIM-9M + AIM-120C loadout. What are your guys thoughts on this subject?

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Hello all,

I was wondering what your guys thoughts would be on adding more historical missles to the Eagle. This would include the AIM-7F, AIM-9L, Python 2 and 3 missle series. I am assuminng the AIM-7P that entered service in 1987 (last main production series of the Sparrow) saw service on the USAF top fighter before the introduction of the AIM-120, so if possible I request that would be added in too if accurate. Maybe I am one of the limited few but I enjoy playing the Eagle in Cold War scenarios, and yes while we can do 1982+ scenarios, I would enjoy using the F15C with the missles it was introduced with. Its important to remember that even if a missle was introuduced or entered production in a certain year, does not mean the older types of missles were just thrown away and never saw service. For instance our earliest AMRAAM in game did not enter service until 1994, meaning that if we had the P model (if it saw service on Eagles) its improvement would be much enjoyed over Mike models.

 

I think the key question is whether or not the developers will think it worth spending time and money making these new missles. Some players would think these new missles will greatly increase realism in certain scenarios and there use in the Mission Editor, however I think those players (including myself) are in the minorty. While others (I believe the majoirty) just see these missles as simply inferior to the current AIM-9M + AIM-120C loadout. What are your guys thoughts on this subject?

 

I'm all for having a wide missiles from different eras. Unfortunately (as probad mentioned) the missiles we have now are underperforming. I'd gladly take an AIM-120A with accurate performance over the AIM-120C we currently have (It'd still be a net performance gain).

 

But as I understand it the dev's have a lot on their plates and missiles aren't near the top of their list. AFAIK there isn't an official statement from ED on what to expect in the coming months/years with regards to missiles. Hopefully once the Hornet nears release that will change :D

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I'm all for having a wide missiles from different eras. Unfortunately (as probad mentioned) the missiles we have now are underperforming. I'd gladly take an AIM-120A with accurate performance over the AIM-120C we currently have (It'd still be a net performance gain).

 

But as I understand it the dev's have a lot on their plates and missiles aren't near the top of their list. AFAIK there isn't an official statement from ED on what to expect in the coming months/years with regards to missiles. Hopefully once the Hornet nears release that will change :D

 

I would as well take a older variants of the missiles just like as well older variants of aircrafts so we can make a missions with a more specific era.

 

But finding even the basic information of the year/version is difficult. Like look at the Wikipedia, almost none of the articles include the year of when specific weapon version or aircraft variant entered to service etc. (This is one thing that I would like to see a DCS community to start filling in the wikipedia about year informations).

 

If such a basic information is so difficult to get added to wikipedia, how much more difficult it is to get any other data even for the weapons? New ones has serious secrets and older ones seem to have as well.

 

Still I am always left puzzled that why does the core feature of the DCS World (the combat part) lacks so much behind everything in the cockpit, when it comes to this kind balances and capabilities. But then again there are only so many developer, so old engine and all things that just takes time and everything we all can do is to age :D

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I think missile performance will always be a somewhat educated guess.

 

Regarding the differences between iterations:

LdjbTSQ.jpg

 

The largest change for the bravo was a reprogrammable EEPROM allowing guidance logic to be continuously improved. While the specific guidance code for the AMRAAM is secret, the fundamentals of guidance and control is very well documented in (fairly expensive) textbooks. As I've said before, applying those techniques would be reasonable even if it isn't explicitly known to be a part of the guidance logic.

 

IMO a wiki page dedicated to military aircraft could be really helpful. I've ammassed a small library of documents over the years.

 

Here is some further reading on the AMRAAM:

http://www.e-haf.org/PublicFTP/BIBLIO8HKH/Weapons/f4_AIM-120.pdf

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AIM-7E, F, P would be fun too.

 

+1 for this. Would be great additions considering the era specific aircraft coming (14, AV8B, and hopefully the Phantom). Some great within visual fighting to be had.

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Absolutely agree. I'd also like to see earlier variants of the Sidewinder (D/E, G/J, and H/J-1 (otherwise known as the N)) and earlier variants of the R-23/24 series if we do in the future see a MiG-23 variant.

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  • 4 months later...

Thread Bump

 

So with a recent update for the F/A-18C they announced a list of weapons that will be in the aircraft for both the early access and full release. Included in the early release list...

 

"AIM-9L/M and CATM Sidewinder

AIM-7F/M/P Sparrow"

 

Is it safe to say that we will be getting these weapons on the F-15C? I think these weapons would be awesome to have on the Eagle, allowing us to have a late 1970's,early 1980's load out. Very interested to see a P model Sparrow coming to the game, as we jump straight from 1982 to what 1994 in missile development.

 

Maybe one day 9X and -120A, though I wont hold my breath.

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Thread Bump

 

So with a recent update for the F/A-18C they announced a list of weapons that will be in the aircraft for both the early access and full release. Included in the early release list...

 

"AIM-9L/M and CATM Sidewinder

AIM-7F/M/P Sparrow"

 

Is it safe to say that we will be getting these weapons on the F-15C? I think these weapons would be awesome to have on the Eagle, allowing us to have a late 1970's,early 1980's load out. Very interested to see a P model Sparrow coming to the game, as we jump straight from 1982 to what 1994 in missile development.

 

Maybe one day 9X and -120A, though I wont hold my breath.

 

Let me preface this post by saying these are all just my assumptions...I don't know anything official.

 

I don't see why the new Sidewinder and Sparrow models wouldn't be able to be loaded in the F-15C. On the other hand, I don't believe you will ever see the AIM-9X as I highly doubt a JHMCS will be added to the Eagle in DCS (at least in it's current FC3 state).

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I'm curious to see how these missiles will perform. I guess from a capabilities standpoint vs the other missiles in the sim, adding them is fine. The MiG-23's weapons range is abysmal compared to the 7M, let alone the 120. However in absolute terms the guidance and drag modeling issues in the sim still bother me.

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Not in all cases. You should never see a 7P on an eagle (they dumped the 7 for the AMRAAM and AFAIK they never even attempted to integrate the 7P), but 9X I would expect to see.

 

Is it safe to say that we will be getting these weapons on the F-15C? I think these weapons would be awesome to have on the Eagle, allowing us to have a late 1970's,early 1980's load out. Very interested to see a P model Sparrow coming to the game, as we jump straight from 1982 to what 1994 in missile development.

 

Maybe one day 9X and -120A, though I wont hold my breath.

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Not in all cases. You should never see a 7P on an eagle (they dumped the 7 for the AMRAAM and AFAIK they never even attempted to integrate the 7P), but 9X I would expect to see.

 

The USAF did drop the 7P? I thought it was a navy development but was not sure. Thought they used it for a lot of the ANG -A model units. Just thought since both Light Grey and Mudhen's were carrying the sparrow in limited capacity even up until the early 2000's that it would be the most recent models of Sparrow.

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They carried it in gulf war and what they carried was the 7MH, IIRC. They never bothered to use the 7P, again, IIRC. It wasn't so much dropped as it was never used.

 

Any eagles with 7's that you may have seen may have been using old stock for the real missile-launch experience ... cheaper than slammers - just my assumption.

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