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How good is this campaign considering the UFO AI FM/DM?


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I'm considering getting the F-5E for this and the ACM campaigns.

 

The AI flight/damage models concern me though:

How much fun and realistic is the dogfighting in these campaigns, and how much does the AI FM/DM affect it?

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  • 1 month later...

Personally so far I find it impossible to get any kills against the AI.

 

Theres just something I'm not getting with the F5. It seems so sluggish and underpowered compared to people flying it on Youtube.


Edited by IonicRipper

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Same here. It's sluggish and underpowered. I set up a match with and F-15 vs an F-5, and with me in the Eagle, there was no match.

 

The plane loses a lot of speed in turns, so you have to turn gently, not aggressively, unless you're turning to take a shot.

 

The plane was never designed to be an air-superiority fighter, so you can't expect that it will perform like one.

 

As always, tactics help a lot. I've been studying BFM in detail, watching the "Art of the Kill" and reading "Fighter Combat Tactics" as well as sundry tactics videos. In the past month or so, my skills have gone from always dying to at least staying alive against each opponent.

 

I can now kill 1 of my two opponents almost half the time, and I still die perhaps ten percent of the time. However, this is a big improvement over always just dying.

 

Learning what to do, when to do it, and why, and how made a big difference for me.

 

If interested, PM me and we can work out some time to practice some maneuvers if you like. I'm by no means an expert, but the practice will help both of us.

 

I wish there were more instructional missions and more people to train with.

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Found the "problem" in a way. Its not really that the F-5 is underpowered but rather the AI set to excellent. At that skill level it doesnt even follow the laws of physics anymore.

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I wish there were more instructional missions and more people to train with.

 

Same here. And with NTTR in mind, I really wish ED would have considered to have the training pods enabled, so that you could fly and practice using laser tag, rather than "simulated bullets". The fact that you die and would have to get the A/C ready, take off, fly to the training area, and do it all over again just to "die" once more is really frustrating. With such laser tag in place, your playtime would be far better used and far less frustrating as you could stay airborne until you're bingo fuel. That's how learning should happen, imho.

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If ED provides that capability then we can certainly update the campaign to take advantage of it.

 

Maybe you are not aware but we included practice missions with in-air starts close to the engagement area so it's a quick respawn if you die.

 

We included them so you can practice your tactics, techniques and procedures before committing to the campaign missions.

 

Without them then we agree it would be alot of flying to get trained up.

 

You can defeat the AI even on excellent settings once you learn good BFM techniques. It takes time and practice. Check out Sydy's videos for some excellent examples.

 

Flying against the AI with lower settings didn't present much of a challenge in our opinion so we decided to go against the best the game engine could provide.

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Personally so far I find it impossible to get any kills against the AI.

 

Theres just something I'm not getting with the F5. It seems so sluggish and underpowered compared to people flying it on Youtube.

 

You really need to keep the speed up in the F-5 for it to perform. Anything below even 350 KIAS and it will perform like a pig. I mean look at those tiny wings...poor little thing lol. Concentrate on conserving energy, and gaining it at any opportunity, and you will start to have more success in the Tiger and start to enjoy it a lot more, at least I did anyway.

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I would like to organize some human vs human training. It would be great if we could find someone who can coach a bit. I know what I know, but I'm certain there's a lot more to know.

 

Also, I received this information from a FB post. I did not write what follows, but it is good enough I think I should repost it here. The author, if he reads this, is welcome to accept credit.

 

 

 

 

ACM is a game of inches, and the Tiger II is working with a 6' tape measure in a world most others are 12 or 24. This means you have to be precise in both your decision making and technique, because your margin of error is so small- they can afford to be sloppy. You can't.

 

The biggest single factor in wringing more performance out of the F-E is your feet. There is no aircraft in DCS that the jet can't best in roll rate, and capitalizing on that requires cutting out the middle-man in many situations- the unload. Get comfortable tagging the pedals to roll while loaded up; this applies to most aircraft, but the F-5 even more so, because you've got the shark nose variant to aid in control at alpha and your rate is nowhere as low, or as uncontrollable, as most types with the stick back in your lap.

 

Turn up the ambient cockpit volume- you need that wind noise, unless you've got one of those seat shakers. Learn the sound of 15 degrees AoA. Make it a notification sound on your phone. Maximize your time with the charts and your notes realizing where that sound resides based on the stick and your entry speed for a sustained turn. We don't have the cues a pilot has, and in a jet that doesn't have the smash to recover from excursions below it's best sustained performance, surrendering it means death, or a long road out of defensive to get back into fighting trim.

 

Speaking of trim, ABT: Always Be Trimming.

 

If it takes as much work trimming out as she does to maintain stable flight, think about how much you should be using it in the fight. Trimming to expectation between maneuver can help accelerate transitions, as well as increase your precision for finding the best performance. And if you're having trouble with the sustained rate AoA, trim nose down- make your muscles work to get to the best turn, rather than overshoot it.

 

Lie, cheat, and steal at every merge. Fight for lateral separation- get out of his HUD, stay there for a moment, then point directly at him in pure to make certain your smallest possible aspect is showing. If the situation permits, be beneath him to compound the problem. This won't help against AI, but practicing it cold makes it natural when shooting at warm bodies.

 

Lastly, remember why you're having to pay so much attention to AoA- energy, and how it needs to be conserved. We naturally want to turn early; vocalize that you need to wait. Go for 5 and 7 where you normally start turning at 4 and 8. Combine that late turn with rudder, and you gain back what you lose in lower sustained G and a larger circle.

 

Put even two of these things into practice, consistently, and you'll notice dividends.

 

 

ADDED LATER:

 

Also, if you really want to get a good feel for the aspect and pedals, and have Nevada, run the Air to Air mission against the F-14. Burner, gradual climb to his altitude as he goes vertical at the start. Dont get below 350 in your incline.

 

He should break left or right, and down into you, maybe a mile lateral. Every instinct in your being is going to say start turning at his 2 or 10. Wait. You'll see the window open around 4/8- run it twice, once turning there, pure stick, and a second time with the rudder, gradually putting it in at 5/7.

 

You'll see it, and it will feel natural. You'll be slightly higher than him, and you'll see how the carve of the latter lets you make more angles than the former. You'll start seeing Sidewinder on that first turn with pedal, and stuck in lag without.

 

If you get really comfortable, you can make the earlier entry with the rudder and kill him with guns on that first turn. When you can see that picture, you're getting where you want to be.

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I really like the F-5E plane. It is quite simple and fun to fly. The module itself is disapointing, as it is the same price as the other modules, but with no stock campaign.

 

And as for the DLC campaigns, same kind of disapointment. They sell it to you as a "campaign" but it's really just multiple times the same mission, but with different opponents. So for me, a lot easier for whoever created the campaign. Not a lot of effort into it, versus other DLC campaigns you can find, like those created by Baltic Dragon...

 

So for me, it's difficult to answer your question. I think the F-5 is great, even if the module feels like it should have a stock campaign for the price. So I'd buy the module anyway if I were you.

 

The campaigns, well... On sale I'd get them, but definitely not at full price.

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  • 1 month later...
If ED provides that capability then we can certainly update the campaign to take advantage of it.

 

Maybe you are not aware but we included practice missions with in-air starts close to the engagement area so it's a quick respawn if you die.

 

We included them so you can practice your tactics, techniques and procedures before committing to the campaign missions.

 

Without them then we agree it would be alot of flying to get trained up.

 

You can defeat the AI even on excellent settings once you learn good BFM techniques. It takes time and practice. Check out Sydy's videos for some excellent examples.

 

Flying against the AI with lower settings didn't present much of a challenge in our opinion so we decided to go against the best the game engine could provide.

 

Where are the practice missions located? I just purchased the campaign, and I cannot find them in the campaign section. They do not come up in the training section, nor do they come in the My missions folder.

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They are located on this path:

 

<drive letter>:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World 2 OpenAlpha\Mods\campaigns\F-5E BFM

 

But recent game changes have caused issues for users being able to use the Missions menu to open them.

 

You can copy them to your Saved Games folder or use the Mission Editor to open them.

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