B17s sudden dive after bombing

[philstyle]

I've noticed that every now and then, the B17s will bomb, and then go into a mad dive after the waypoint.

 

 

I can't find any reason for this in my mission settings.

 

 

Anyone else observed this behaviour?

Any fixes?

[dogrokket]

Mine do this before the bombing run. I have all my altitudes set at 12000 ft. Haven't found an answer yet...

[NineLine]

Attach your missions. it might be something in the waypoint settings, its easy to miss a setting in a waypoint that makes the AI act like turkeys :)

[dogrokket]

I've noticed that every now and then, the B17s will bomb, and then go into a mad dive after the waypoint.

 

 

I can't find any reason for this in my mission settings.

 

 

Anyone else observed this behaviour?

Any fixes?

 

Did you place a flak battery around the point where they dive? I found this out in my mission.

[philstyle]

Did you place a flak battery around the point where they dive? I found this out in my mission.

 

Yes, there is flak.

 

 

I'll post my mission tonight.

It's the one I built in this series of vidoes:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited June 29, 2017 by philstyle

[dogrokket]

Phil, when I disabled the flak, the bombers stopped diving. Capt Orso suggested placing a waypoint command prior to have the bombers react passively to threats. I am now using the flak script, and it's awesome!

[philstyle]

Phil, when I disabled the flak, the bombers stopped diving. Capt Orso suggested placing a waypoint command prior to have the bombers react passively to threats. I am now using the flak script, and it's awesome!

 

 

Yes, I've solved it also by using the "passive defence" as a reaction to threats.

I'm, sticking with the in-game flak guns though and not using a script.

[Emmy]

I'm seeing this behavior with any altitude higher than 20,000 feet set at the IP. IA Skill does not seem to have any effect.

Presence of AA does not have any effect either. At 20K, a formation (and I've built a formation of up to 40 B-17s) will fly right along through the flak.

[philstyle]

I'm seeing this behavior with any altitude higher than 20,000 feet set at the IP. IA Skill does not seem to have any effect.

Presence of AA does not have any effect either. At 20K, a formation (and I've built a formation of up to 40 B-17s) will fly right along through the flak.

 

 

 

Setting the "react to thread" (advanced waypoint action) to "passive defence" has stopped the bombers from diong the mad dives for me. See if that helps you also.

Also, go through each waypoint again to confirm the altitude. I've found them now and then where the correct altitude had not been set (prob due ot my own oversights)

[Emmy]

I will try the different threat reaction choices....

 

(However, I've seen them do it from 30K with no threats of any kind present)

[Emmy]

Revisited this and had at least a quantifiable issue...

 

Two Groups of four Elements with four Bombers per element so 32 total B-17Gs

 

Lead Group: 32,000' @ 280kts

2nd Group: 31,500' @ 280kts 1/2 mile in trail

Reaction To Threat = NONE for all 32 bombers.

There were no German fighters or flak placed on the map. Just a "milk run" as a test.

 

The wing and slot elements had their "Last Way Point" set to #5 so they should follow straight through to the conclusion.

 

"Bombing Altitude" was checked on the way point action of "Carpet Bombing" and the starting altitude was entered in the field next to the check box.

 

Straight line course from just below the English coast to Cherbourg as the target with five way points total after the SP. Starting in flight with minimal "jockeying" needed to build each group. The bombers got into their formations straight away.

 

All 32 planes pass way points 1 and 2 cleanly but when they reach the IP at way point 3 (approx 30 miles from the target) both group leads dove to 25,XXX' and their respective wing men followed them down. All 32 re-established their formations and dropped their bombs from this altitude. As soon as the last bomb left Tail End Charlie, BOTH formations began to climb eventually leveling out at their initial starting altitude.

 

So, for whatever reason, they dropped altitude for the duration of the bomb run, from the IP to last weapon clear and then went back to their assigned altitudes.

 

They simply will not stay at altitude for a bomb run.

[Blech]

Hi,

 

:dunno: Internal settings ?

 

26,000 ft - ok

27,000 ft - no bombs, turn away, circle around

28,000 ft - dive, drop bombs at ca. 25-26,000 ft, climb

 

 

---

[Reflected]

There is an advanced waypoint actin called WW2 carpet bombing. Make sure it's set for the same altitude as the waypoint (as well as the wp before and after)

[Blech]

Hi,

 

All settings have the same pattern and they work for 25,000 and 26,000 ft

 

27,000 and 28,000 ft - cause problems

 

--

[SnowTiger]

Attach your missions. it might be something in the waypoint settings, its easy to miss a setting in a waypoint that makes the AI act like turkeys :)

 

I couldn't help but to LMAO when I read this.

There's nothing worse than a plane flying like a turkey. Especially when turkeys can't fly (very well). But I can picture them trying and sometimes the AI aren't much better.

 

Good One SiThSpAwN.

[71st_AH Rob]

Hi,

 

All settings have the same pattern and they work for 25,000 and 26,000 ft

 

27,000 and 28,000 ft - cause problems

 

--

 

it might be that you are above the max alt limit of the Nordon bombsight and they are diving to be able to hit the target.

[Blech]

it might be that you are above the max alt limit of the Nordon bombsight and they are diving to be able to hit the target.

 

 

Hi,

 

Yes, maybe a matter of Norden bombsight development/variants (?) or simple the fact, that precision bombing with small bombs was not possible at altitudes over xxx ft ( wind drift, ... )

 

In 1945 the both atomic bombs (huge) were delivered with Norden bombsights at 30,700 and 31,000 ft

[NineLine]

it might be that you are above the max alt limit of the Nordon bombsight and they are diving to be able to hit the target.

 

I would imagine its something like this, the AI is very strict about following certain orders :)

[NineLine]

Hi,

 

Yes, maybe a matter of Norden bombsight development/variants (?) or simple the fact, that precision bombing with small bombs was not possible at altitudes over xxx ft ( wind drift, ... )

 

In 1945 the both atomic bombs (huge) were delivered with Norden bombsights at 30,700 and 31,000 ft

 

I wouldn't get too hung up on the type of sight used, the AI is not as complex as user modules, it could be as simple as a numerical value limiting altitude for bomb drops.

[Blech]

I wouldn't get too hung up on the type of sight used, the AI is not as complex as user modules, it could be as simple as a numerical value limiting altitude for bomb drops.

 

 

Hi,

 

Thanks

 

The question still is : Can anyone reproduce this strange behavior at 27,000 ft or is there an error on my settings in the Mission Editor ?

 

 

About 25,000 ft is okay. This altitude was often used for high altitude B-17 raids over Germany (flak)

I guess with something between the following speed settings in the Mission Editor :

 

210 -> IAS 140 RPM : ca 91 %

225 -> IAS 150 RPM : ca 93 %

Edited July 29, 2017 by Blech

[Grimes]

Can you attach a mission file where the AI do the dive? Its easier to test stuff like this when we don't have to try and remake it manually. Chances are something will either be missing or we'd do it differently and get different behavior.

[Blech]

Can you attach a mission file where the AI do the dive? Its easier to test stuff like this when we don't have to try and remake it manually. Chances are something will either be missing or we'd do it differently and get different behavior.

 

 

Hi,

 

This thread #12 - B17 speed test 25000 ft.miz

 

---> B 26000 ft, B 28000 ft, B 27000 ft

 

 

All other groups are ok and only for testing different TAS (-> IAS, RPM) at 25000 ft