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why speedbrakes are fanned out during cold start?


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as above. I noticed the speedbrakes fanned out during cold start. It kind of irritates me to think its OFF when its actually ON during takeoff.. I have survived many times jittery takeoffs because they were out.

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AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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Speed-brakes out for engine shutdown and start is correct actually. After starting engines:

 

BEFORE TAXI

...

5.Speed Brake - In; 6. Flap Thumb Switch - M/AUTO; ... 11. Pitch Trim - Check and Set.

 

From T.O. 1F-5E-1 page 2-9.

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Airbrakes are left extended when shutting down the aircraft for maintenance, you can see that on many photos of the real F-5's parked on ramp. Probably there's no easy way to open them up without powering the aircraft.

Hardware: Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Hotas Cougar, Slaw Rudder, Wheel Stand Pro, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Reverb

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.


Edited by VampireNZ

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Edited by VampireNZ

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oh its my shortsight then. sorry.

AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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Really? You don't say - thanks for the pro tip. Aside from the fact that isn't a checklist...

Also I think the main point is that there isn't a light glowing at you in the Cockpit telling you to close your speedbrakes before takeoff if you forget. Obviously if you remember you just select close - you don't need to look for a 'slight horizontal tail deflection'.

 

 

 

This is why having external mode is not cheating. Unless you are flying with a wingman, you would have no other way to verify a correct takeoff configuration without seeing a ground crewmember directing you to close the speedbrakes and direct you on your way to the runway.

 

 

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Really? You don't say - thanks for the pro tip. Aside from the fact that isn't a checklist...

Also I think the main point is that there isn't a light glowing at you in the Cockpit telling you to close your speedbrakes before takeoff if you forget. Obviously if you remember you just select close - you don't need to look for a 'slight horizontal tail deflection'.

 

How do you fancy the actual F-5E checklist that states it plain as day?

 

rMi39M3.png

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For those arguing to refer to the checklist, start ups are not a single man operation. It's a coordinated effort between pilot AND ground crew. They are the safety outside where we cant see everything during critical operations. If the jet is not configured properly, they'd be the ones to let us know. Then last chance at the EOR provides a final look over of the jet for arming and safety.

 

The F-5 does not have any internal indication of extended speedbrakes, so peaking outside is necessary to ensure full retraction. It's not cheating.

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For those arguing to refer to the checklist, start ups are not a single man operation.

 

I don't think that's what we're arguing, really. The core of it is that if people followed checklists, they wouldn't have to ask for something that isn't currently possible in the sim. Would I love to have an interactive crew-chief to assist in start-up? Totally. In lieu of having that, I do follow a checklist, and thankfully, in the ideal world of DCS I never need to second-guess whether or not my brakes are up and stowed.

 

So use a checklist or...I don't know...keep taking off with boards out? It's always worth a laugh on ACG Cold War, watching people barely clear the end of the runway.

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Wouldn't it be cool if DCS made it so there was an Animated Crew Chief outside the aircraft giving Hand Signals and verbal commands etc ?

It might even be fun to see other Ground Crew scurrying around doing other activities too such as Connecting/Disconnecting Air/Power etc.

It would IMO really add to the overall Sim experience.

 

Maybe I should consider posting this in the Wish List thread ?

SnowTiger:joystick:

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Where would they come from? Where would they go after you've started the jet? What's going to happen if someone doesn't park properly?

 

Just a few of the problems with that...I agree it would be awesome but I just don't think it's feasible given the freedom DCS gives its players. Be happy to be proven wrong though. :)

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I hear you friend. It probably is more problematic than I can guess.

I just think it would be an interesting feature.

 

At the very least, I'd love the ability (for the Animated Pilot) to be able to Salute other players. But again, this too is probably more problematic than realistic. But wouldn't it be Cool ? ~

SnowTiger:joystick:

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Realistically, a voice confirmation (or warning, if you missed something) from the ground crew would do the job. We already get a warning if we try to taxi off with cables still attached, this would be a logical next step.

 

Having animated ground crew working on the airplane would be nice of course, but I think it's a bigger task than most people think. Different services in different countries have their own procedures, uniforms etc. Getting all that right and then modelling, animating and programming it is a massive effort to achieve something we'll skip half of the time anyway when we start on the runway or in the air.

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i wonder which is faster and requires less effort, remembering to push the airbrake in button as a part of your preflight routine, or waiting for devs to solve all the problems of a working ground crew?

i guess asking yourself to put in a little effort is taboo these days, its always everyone else who has to shoulder the burden.

 

mind you, im not against groundcrew implementation, but their ability to save you from yourself shouldn't be a reason we need them.


Edited by probad

МИР

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When the aircraft taxis back to the parking spot, the crew chief will ensure that the speed brakes and the gear doors are in the down position in order to complete the post flight inspection.

The only way to lower the speed brakes is to hook up electrical (which is nothing more than a HUGE plug) and hydraulic power. Hooking hydraulic power was quite the chore since you had to get the hydraulic unit, you did this by lowering a panel under the engine and hooking up two hoses. The other ay would be to hook up power and wind the engines, this would also be a challenge since very few people were engine run qualified.

Make sense?!

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i wonder which is faster and requires less effort, remembering to push the airbrake in button as a part of your preflight routine, or waiting for devs to solve all the problems of a working ground crew?

i guess asking yourself to put in a little effort is taboo these days, its always everyone else who has to shoulder the burden.

 

mind you, im not against groundcrew implementation, but their ability to save you from yourself shouldn't be a reason we need them.

 

 

 

Whilst I do agree that it's easier to just remember, bear in mind that this is a sim; we are not all pilots (nor should many of us be). If the pilots who fly these aircraft (and represent some of the smartest, fittest, and most disciplined individuals of their country) can be allowed a prompt from ground crew, surely so can we ;)

For the meantime, "just remember" or "check visually yourself with f2" is of course easier for us to do.

But adding ground crew in as part of, say, combined arms, could be done.

 

 

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+1 for the ground crew. I would be happy with a very basic representation that sort of pops-up when you call the crew chief for preflight checks/start coordination, including ground support equipment, and would have no problems also if everything just faded away after taxiing out. Just like the wheel chocks, they appear and disappear as requested. I do not see anybody asking "dude where did the wheel chocks go after removal? Totally unrealistic, immersion killer!"

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Whilst I do agree that it's easier to just remember, bear in mind that this is a sim; we are not all pilots (nor should many of us be). If the pilots who fly these aircraft (and represent some of the smartest, fittest, and most disciplined individuals of their country) can be allowed a prompt from ground crew, surely so can we ;)

For the meantime, "just remember" or "check visually yourself with f2" is of course easier for us to do.

But adding ground crew in as part of, say, combined arms, could be done.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Ground crew would be awesome but this is a checklist thing. Period.

Same with flaps on other planes that are regularly deployed when away from the parking position so noone can prompt you if you forget.

Ground crew presence is mainly about engine start, removing external power or air and pushbacks not assisting in aircraft configuration or giving you hints about it . In civilian aviation at least.


Edited by dimitrischal
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I fly T-38's and it is procedure to have speed brakes extended and gear doors manually extended after landing for maintenance purposes. After engine start it is a team effort between crew chief and pilot to test all flight controls for proper movement (trim, stabs [including trim disconnect at max deflection], ailerons, rudder, speed brake operation, flaps [all configurations], and pitot heat).

 

We cannot see well behind us so the crew chief moves his arms to indicate how flight controls are moving and checks to make sure they are operating and moving correctly.

 

Habu

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