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Su-25T Warnings


Horns
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I'll start by apologizing, I'm sorry for placing this in the wrong forum, since there is no dedicated Su-25T thread I thought this was closest, and I believe Su-25 and Su-27 users may be able to answer my question.

 

In the Su-25T training mission "Landing (easy)" in DCS 1.5 I keep getting a warning tone (no voice), and I'm not sure what it is, so I can neither identify the problem nor seek a solution. Edit: I can't post the track because this is training, and third party game recorders mess with my PC for some reason.

 

My best guess is that it's a stall warning since it happens most at low speeds (300 - 400) and it seems like increasing thrust fixes it. However, the problem is that the warning often recurs within seconds, and I often have to increase thrust to max to fix it. This warning often comes up as I'm on approach to the landing strip, so I wind up having to land too fast or too late.

 

I don't *think* it's an AoA warning since it happens at wings level as often as not, so it seems like the engines are getting plenty of clean air and I think the AoA warning is spoken rather than being a tone. That said, I'm still getting my head around AoA so I wouldn't be totally surprised if that is it.

 

Also, once you were competent to fly the Sukhois, would you usually complete your missions without flight-related warnings (like the one I mentioned here), or are warnings an ongoing part of flying these Russian birds?

 

If anyone can offer answers and/or solutions I'd be very grateful.


Edited by Horns
Added explanation for not posting track

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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I'll start by apologizing, I'm sorry for placing this in the wrong forum, since there is no dedicated Su-25T thread I thought this was closest, and I believe Su-25 and Su-27 users may be able to answer my question.

 

In the Su-25T training mission "Landing (easy)" in DCS 1.5 I keep getting a warning tone (no voice), and I'm not sure what it is, so I can neither identify the problem nor seek a solution. Edit: I can't post the track because this is training, and third party game recorders mess with my PC for some reason.

 

My best guess is that it's a stall warning since it happens most at low speeds (300 - 400) and it seems like increasing thrust fixes it. However, the problem is that the warning often recurs within seconds, and I often have to increase thrust to max to fix it. This warning often comes up as I'm on approach to the landing strip, so I wind up having to land too fast or too late.

 

I don't *think* it's an AoA warning since it happens at wings level as often as not, so it seems like the engines are getting plenty of clean air and I think the AoA warning is spoken rather than being a tone. That said, I'm still getting my head around AoA so I wouldn't be totally surprised if that is it.

 

Also, once you were competent to fly the Sukhois, would you usually complete your missions without flight-related warnings (like the one I mentioned here), or are warnings an ongoing part of flying these Russian birds?

 

If anyone can offer answers and/or solutions I'd be very grateful.

 

It's most likely the AoA warning. Check the AoA gauge to confirm that.

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It's most likely the AoA warning. Check the AoA gauge to confirm that.

 

Thanks, no idea how I missed that gauge. That means I must be mistaken about being wings level, yeah?

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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...

In the Su-25T training mission "Landing (easy)" in DCS 1.5 I keep getting a warning tone (no voice), and I'm not sure what it is, so I can neither identify the problem nor seek a solution. Edit: I can't post the track because this is training...

Two things:

 

1) A track is always saved of the last mission you've flown. After you've flown the mission, check the "Tracks" folder in you Saved Games folder. You'll see "tempMission.miz.trk". That's that mission's track.

 

2) I just flew that training to see if there was anything amiss. Everything ran fine, I got the stall warning (beep-beep-beep) after I flared and just before I touched down. The only other tones were the inner and outer marker. The aircraft feels fairly light. So unless your were flying down around the low 300s with neither the maneuvering nor landing flaps out and were actually maneuvering, I doubt it'd be AoA or stall. Perhaps you can post that track.

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YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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Two things:

 

1) A track is always saved of the last mission you've flown. After you've flown the mission, check the "Tracks" folder in you Saved Games folder. You'll see "tempMission.miz.trk". That's that mission's track.

 

2) I just flew that training to see if there was anything amiss. Everything ran fine, I got the stall warning (beep-beep-beep) after I flared and just before I touched down. The only other tones were the inner and outer marker. The aircraft feels fairly light. So unless your were flying down around the low 300s with neither the maneuvering nor landing flaps out and were actually maneuvering, I doubt it'd be AoA or stall. Perhaps you can post that track.

 

Low 300s and no flaps sounds entirely possible, I was sticking to the route air speed but I do remember thinking it was awfully low. Thanks for telling me how to access the track too. As soon as I'm back at my machine I'll upload it, and being able to watch these again would be a great learning tool for me too.

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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Low 300s and no flaps in that training mission isn't a problem unless you're "maneuvering". By that I mean things like pulling back on the stick quickly to raise your nose, etc. The T's engines take awhile to spool up (just watch how long it takes for them to get to full rpm from idle when you start a takeoff roll). That means you always have to be ahead of the aircraft in your thinking. What power needs are coming up? The throttles always go forward before the nose comes up. Etc.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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Low 300s and no flaps in that training mission isn't a problem unless you're "maneuvering". By that I mean things like pulling back on the stick quickly to raise your nose, etc. The T's engines take awhile to spool up (just watch how long it takes for them to get to full rpm from idle when you start a takeoff roll).

That means you always have to be ahead of the aircraft in your thinking. What power needs are coming up? The throttles always go forward before the nose comes up. Etc.

 

That was the information I was missing, I hadn't realized that I need to throttle up before raising the nose, but I probably should have. Thank you so much! I think I have this figured out now so I won't upload the track, but you've answered the biggest question I've had in this game so far, thanks again :)

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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In a lot of ways, the -25T is a great aircraft in which to learn about flight. I don't know what your level of expertise is but, in this aircraft, you don't have an overabundance of power to mask mistakes. Never be in a hurry to make changes in this aircraft.

 

In this training scenario, there's no need to rush. Don't chase those initial waypoints, fly to them. Take your time with the altitude changes. That becomes especially true as your airspeed approaches the low 300s. At that point, if you don't have flaps out, you are fast approaching your wing's critical angle of attack (AoA). Even with flaps extended, if you find yourself chasing either the needles or the flight director at slow speeds, abort, come around, and try again. You want smooth and steady in this training scenario.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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In a lot of ways, the -25T is a great aircraft in which to learn about flight. I don't know what your level of expertise is but, in this aircraft, you don't have an overabundance of power to mask mistakes. Never be in a hurry to make changes in this aircraft.

 

In this training scenario, there's no need to rush. Don't chase those initial waypoints, fly to them. Take your time with the altitude changes. That becomes especially true as your airspeed approaches the low 300s. At that point, if you don't have flaps out, you are fast approaching your wing's critical angle of attack (AoA). Even with flaps extended, if you find yourself chasing either the needles or the flight director at slow speeds, abort, come around, and try again. You want smooth and steady in this training scenario.

 

Thanks, that is great advice. I don't have any knowledge of flight or the physics at play, so it's great to get guidance like this. I will take care to be patient with this bird - since my goal is the A-10C it is probably best to get used to low-speed flight lol.

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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Thanks. I think I initially dismissed that because it was a different variant, but in hindsight that would make more sense than the general FC3 forum :)

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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Thanks, that is great advice. I don't have any knowledge of flight or the physics at play, so it's great to get guidance like this. I will take care to be patient with this bird - since my goal is the A-10C it is probably best to get used to low-speed flight lol.

You might want to check out my YouTube channel. There might be a few things there that'll be helpful. Just click my signature.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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You might want to check out my YouTube channel. There might be a few things there that'll be helpful. Just click my signature.

 

Thanks, I'll do exactly that :)

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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I imagine that, by now, you're well past this but this was my flight during that lesson. I had tried to upload the track a few days ago but, even zipped, it was too large. So I had to wait for an opportunity to convert it to video instead:

 

 

EDIT: Changed the YT link to point to the same video but with added voiceover: EDIT ENDS

 

 

Unfortunately, since the last update, my cockpit no longer is as crisp as it used to be--jaggies, etc that I can't seem to get rid of.

 

I will probably add a voiceover to this sometime soon and publish it publicly on my channel as there are a few additional things I'd like to point out as I fly it concerning handling the aircraft and its systems. When that happens, I'll edit this link to point to the new video.


Edited by Ironhand

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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Thanks, I'm still not consistently managing my speed well in this lesson. so this is very helpful. I see that you stay between +-10 and allow the director circle to come to you, I guess that's what you mean by not chasing it? I go up to +-20, which might explain why I get stall warnings. It's much easier to learn from experience having an example.

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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Thanks, I'm still not consistently managing my speed well in this lesson. so this is very helpful. I see that you stay between +-10 and allow the director circle to come to you, I guess that's what you mean by not chasing it? I go up to +-20, which might explain why I get stall warnings. It's much easier to learn from experience having an example.

I'm a firm believer in: "All things in moderation." That's especially true in this airframe. There are occasions that call for flying aggressively. This is not one of them. :)

 

I don't know what you know about AoA, critical AoA, accelerated stalls, etc but I suspect the latter is what you're running into.

 

Simply put, angle of attack (AoA) is the difference between where your wing is heading and where it is pointing. Still keeping things in simple terms, every wing has a critical AoA which is the point at which the AoA is so extreme for that wing that lift is no longer produced and the wing stalls. When you try to change direction too abruptly, it's possible to force the AoA close to or completely past that critical point (accelerated stall) without intending to. Accelerated stalls can happen at any airspeed--fast or slow.

 

I've been thinking about creating a tutorial dealing with some of this. If I do, this might be the perfect airframe for it.


Edited by Ironhand

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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I'm a firm believer in: "All things in moderation." That's especially true in this airframe. There are occasions that call for flying aggressively. This is not one of them. :)

 

I don't know what you know about AoA, critical AoA, accelerated stalls, etc but I suspect the latter is what you're running into.

 

Simply put, angle of attack (AoA) is the difference between where your wing is heading and where it is pointing. Still keeping things in simple terms, every wing has a critical AoA which is the point at which the AoA is so extreme for that wing that lift is no longer produced and the wing stalls. When you try to change direction too abruptly, it's possible to force the AoA close to or completely past that critical point (accelerated stall) without intending to. Accelerated stalls can happen at any airspeed--fast or slow.

 

I've been thinking about creating a tutorial dealing with some of this. If I do, this might be the perfect airframe for it.

 

Thanks for explaining in those terms. I come in with no knowledge on these subjects, and I had mistakenly thought all of these were about getting clean air to the engines. This is what happens when a pleb like myself sees words like "vector" :cry:

 

It would be great if you did produce that resource in this plane. It would be a great way to show prospective new players who are using this free plane that there is a strong DCS community invested in helping people learn.

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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Thanks for explaining in those terms. I come in with no knowledge on these subjects, and I had mistakenly thought all of these were about getting clean air to the engines. This is what happens when a pleb like myself sees words like "vector" :cry:

...

Welcome to the world of flight (simulation). :) There are a bunch of helpful people in the forum. If you're ever puzzled by or having difficulty with something, just ask.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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invested in helping people learn.

being a simulator, dcs obeys all the principles of actual flight, and there is well over 100 years worth of lessons already invested on this topic -- and it's all (or at least the salient points are) a google away.

while ironhand's initiatives are always nice, taking your own personal initiative would be even more laudable.

МИР

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Thanks, I'm still not consistently managing my speed well in this lesson. so this is very helpful. I see that you stay between +-10 and allow the director circle to come to you, I guess that's what you mean by not chasing it? I go up to +-20, which might explain why I get stall warnings. It's much easier to learn from experience having an example.

 

Maybe there is a confusion?

 

The AoA is your angle relatively to the air flow, it is indicated by the analog gauge on the top left of the intrument panel, if you look closely the 15-20 zone is yellow and there is a dashed block at 20, which indicates it's pretty much a no-go zone.

If you go F2 view you will see the AoA as well on the bottom of the screen.

 

The scale you see on the HUD (on the right, increments of 10) is your pitch angle relative to the horizon, it doesn't take the airflow in account.

 

There are two circles, one is the deviation with approach path (small), the other one is your flight director (large), you should try to follow the large circle, as it tells you how to fly the aircraft, just not too aggressively, if the flight director is above, pull smoothly towards it a little then release, let it come to the center (increase thrust slightly to take the pull in account).


Edited by PiedDroit
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being a simulator, dcs obeys all the principles of actual flight, and there is well over 100 years worth of lessons already invested on this topic -- and it's all (or at least the salient points are) a google away.

while ironhand's initiatives are always nice, taking your own personal initiative would be even more laudable.

:) Unfortunately, it's hard to find the the answers until you know what questions to ask. Hopefully, whenever JM1 has a WTF moment in this sim, he'll continue to feel free to come to these fora and ask. And, if he continues to pursue an interest in flight, he'll be like the rest of us using Google and every other available resource to add to his knowledge.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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being a simulator, dcs obeys all the principles of actual flight, and there is well over 100 years worth of lessons already invested on this topic -- and it's all (or at least the salient points are) a google away.

while ironhand's initiatives are always nice, taking your own personal initiative would be even more laudable.

 

Absolutely, and google is always my first port of call, and if I don't find anything useful there I search this site before posting a question. My initial question was what the warning tone I kept hearing in this particular tutorial was likely to be, so I did google the tute to see if others had posted about the problem I was having, and I posted the question only when I didn't find anything relevant.

 

I am very grateful that Ironhand went on to explain the likely cause of the warning after suggesting what it was likely to be, and I expect that was because my original post had demonstrated that I had misunderstood what a stall actually was. Ironhand's extra information allowed me to return to google with a clearer idea of what I needed to learn.

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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Maybe there is a confusion?

 

The AoA is your angle relatively to the air flow, it is indicated by the analog gauge on the top left of the intrument panel, if you look closely the 15-20 zone is yellow and there is a dashed block at 20, which indicates it's pretty much a no-go zone.

If you go F2 view you will see the AoA as well on the bottom of the screen.

 

The scale you see on the HUD (on the right, increments of 10) is your pitch angle relative to the horizon, it doesn't take the airflow in account.

 

There are two circles, one is the deviation with approach path (small), the other one is your flight director (large), you should try to follow the large circle, as it tells you how to fly the aircraft, just not too aggressively, if the flight director is above, pull smoothly towards it a little then release, let it come to the center (increase thrust slightly to take the pull in account).

 

Thanks, I hadn't considered that the pitch ladder in the hud was not relative to airflow. I will make sure to check the AoA gauge as well when I'm flying more than 5 degrees above or below level. I didn't realize that I could bring up the AoA at the bottom of the screen, thanks for that too :thumbup:

 

 

Modules: [A-10C] [AJS 37] [AV8B N/A] [F-5E] [F-14] [F/A-18C] [FC3] [Ka-50] [M-2000C] [Mig-21 bis] [NTTR] [PG] [SC]

Intel i7-12700F, Nvidia GTX 3080, MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi, 32GB DDR4 @ 1600 MHz, SteelSeries Apex Pro, Razer Basilisk 3

VKB Gunfighter 3 w/ F-14 grip, Thrustmaster Warthog throttle, Thrustmaster MFD Cougars x2, MFG Crosswind,

DSD Flight Series button controller, XK-24, Oculus Rift (HM-A)

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There's this thread

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=190912

where neofightr discusses how the USN has its pilots do carrier landings, among a variety of other topics.

 

Actually, here's the relevant bit, since there's a lot of stuff to dig through to get to the relevant bits (much is worth reading, but there's a lot of off topic with respect to landing).

 

Here is an outstanding video made by an enthusiast about the carrier pattern.

 

Really great and thorough but with some much needed corrections. I highly recommend the video because it's a complete picture on carrier ops from the training perspective. Below are my corrections for the video.

_____________________________________________________

"I know this is very late feedback, good presentation but a couple of corrections for you. Never correct a high or low position with the stick, always with the power. You use the stick to correct alignment to centerline and maintaining the proper AOA.

 

"At the 45" is not past the carrier wake it's before it (edit: on it or slightly before it). The 45 position is halfway between the 90 and rolling out on the groove. Rolling out on the groove is just that rolling out on the groove all lined up with the centerline.

 

The reason why you said it was hard to see the ball initially when talking about your "starting the groove position" slide is because based on your position you were really long in the groove. When you roll out in the groove you are actually pretty close to the carrier and it shouldn't be hard to see the meatball assuming you are at the proper glideslope position. If you are hitting your numbers you should clearly see a center ball when when leveling your wings at the start of the groove.

 

You were starting your turn at the abeam way too late, you need to start that turn before you pass the fantail. This will have you much closer to the carrier on roll out. A better reference for the abeam is when you can see the hangar deck opening clear through and are lined up with it, start the turn right then do not go past the ship before starting the turn.

 

 

You should not be referencing the wake at all. The last reference checkpoint is the 45. If that wake reference call is in natops then that's news to me, since it's only an unnecessary distraction for the pilot. Keep in mind my flying days were twenty years ago.

 

The position calls are only for training by the way, by the time you are flying the hornet those comms are no longer necessary. The only call you make is your ball call. Typically the LSO says nothing other than acknowledge your ball call with lights or by voice so you intialize comms with your ball call. Oh and its not "4 decimal 2" it's "4 point 2".

 

You do not wait until you are a mile past the carrier to start the break turn, the break turn starts about 2 seconds after passing the bow. The mile thing might be a training thing but if that was practiced in fleet ops it would stretch out the carrier pattern and really screw things up.

 

Oh and one last thing, if you really want to do it like in real life make sure you are not looking at the carrier deck when the meat ball is in sight, you only make very quick glances at the centerline to make sure you are lined up with it but 95 percent of the time you are looking at the meatball and scanning your AOA indicator and that's it. If you are getting in the habit at staring at the deck and using the velocity vector to point yourself to the deck then you are doing it wrong."

 

 

 

 

The condensed version is that when flying the final approach you use the stick to control not your pitch, but your AoA. The throttle you use to control your altitude above or below the glideslope. Horizontal alignment you correct as needed with roll and yaw.

 

A natural question is, "but if I'm controlling altitude with throttle, how do I control my speed?"

 

Mostly the answer is that you don't need to worry about it. If the plane isn't overloaded with fuel and stores and is in landing configuration (part to full flaps and gear down), the speed will pretty much take care of itself if you're keeping reasonably close to glideslope.

 

It may feel odd if that's not the way you're used to doing things, but it does seem to produce consistently good results, which is very desirable when landing an airplane.

 

I'm sure somewhere there's an official number for the Su-25T, but in the absence of knowing what exactly it is, I find that keeping the needle on the AoA gauge at about 10 works fairly well.

 

Unlike a carrier landing, it is advisable in a Su-25T to flare (in the increase AoA sense not the deploy countermeasures sense) in the last few hundred meters just before landing. In terms of amount, just enough to get your decent rate to the 0.5 to 1 m/s range at touchdown.


Edited by esb77

Callsign "Auger". It could mean to predict the future or a tool for boring large holes.

 

I combine the two by predictably boring large holes in the ground with my plane.

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