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I think more FC style modules would be cool


aidanw2000

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And the Su-27 and MiG-29.

 

Except the F-15 idea was/is printed on the Belsimtek website. I don't recall seeing anything official about the other two.

 

We are considering the possibility of creating a complete avionics model with clickable cockpit and accurate systems modeling. This would be a major development however, so a final decision has not yet been made.

 

https://belsimtek.com/news/217/

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Except the F-15 idea was/is printed on the Belsimtek website. I don't recall seeing anything official about the other two.

 

 

 

https://belsimtek.com/news/217/

 

Hopefully they'll have time to endeavor on the avionics challenge after their work with the Hornet is finished.

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Lets see.....wait 3 years for a model, then a year of fixes, and then hopefully all the promised elements are finally implemented or the developer kinda forgets it....and then ED decides to reinvent the engine/graphics so back to weekly updates to get all the current modules to even operate correctly if the 3rd party developers are still in the game or have split up and of course all the promised vaporware modules that ......gee...never happen cause of all the usual excuses. And the one model developed sells for 49.00.

 

Or develop 3-4 FC with matching maps/era's type modules each year for the many who will purchased for 29.00 each year but, sadly the few rivet counters/clickable insistent challenged will scoff and cry....but like it has been said a thousand times here....you don't have to purchase it.......

 

If reality is what you desire and nothing else will suffice...I suggest saving your money and with the savings you will accumulate during your 3 year wait for the close approximation that a programmer thinks will portray their idea of what said module should fly like in a simulator.....then rent time in the actual aircraft once a year and get your fix. IMHO.

Laz

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This. True test will be how many after F18 release. Any wagers?

 

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I knew someone would says that :D for F-15 or M2K the number might down little bit but not for Russian jets. We may never have DCS level for multirole Russian jets and thats where FC3 level would take the empty place.

 

Sent from my A1601 using Tapatalk


Edited by Oceandar

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I am just curious here: What "survivability" does have an FC3 plane over a full blown fidelity plane? are the F-15 and SU-27 that great as plane or is it their FC modeling that allow them to win all the time?

 

If any of you hardcore simmer think the type of modeling doesn't give an advantage, then why on earth do you care about having FC planes on the servers? just don't buy/fly them and let other players do.

 

IMHO, the real benefit of having FC planes around is it allows the guys, like me, who are just beginning to fly, to be able to go "baby step" with the game. I am not sure what would be the attrition rate if we were all forced to start playing the game with the A-10C . Pretty sure most players would give up after their first game.

 

Suggestions, All planes can be made with full fidelity but make the cockpit clickable as a programmable feature. Then, sell the FC model of the plane (cockpit click disabled) as a basic model. For example, the F-5. You can also sell the full fidelity (clickable cockpit) as the F-5s . That way, those who want something simpler get what they are looking for and when they mastered that model, can buy something more advanced. Doing this makes the FC players happy, the hardcore players happy and ED/3rd party happy :)

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Look at 104th server. What kind of jet they fly the most? Its FC3 : F-15 or Su-27. There you have your answer :D

 

Sent from my A1601 using Tapatalk

 

Other than the Mirage we don't have a lot of high fidelity 4th gen fighters so that's an unfair comparison especially for the average user the Mirage is at a disadvantage against 120's and ET's.

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Feels like some strange elitism..

 

Yessir!

 

According to many here, to be a real hardcore virtual pilot, you have to click on things and power them up from a cold start every time.

 

However, I'll bet nearly none of those anti-FC3 crowd use random system failures and every help function turned off. Or use real comm procedures and airfield arrival/departures. How many of you "full-real" crowd would truly walk through a 45 minute pre-flight each time you fly? Work through a continually slipping ETIC. Or move to a spare and start all over?

 

Heavy aircraft would be a great candidate for FC3 level. Easy start up, and filling a huge gap.

 

From experience, I see more people online flying the F-15, Su-27 and Su-25T than the others. This includes the more "hardcore" groups alongside the newbs.

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I am just curious here: What "survivability" does have an FC3 plane over a full blown fidelity plane? are the F-15 and SU-27 that great as plane or is it their FC modeling that allow them to win all the time?

 

If any of you hardcore simmer think the type of modeling doesn't give an advantage, then why on earth do you care about having FC planes on the servers? just don't buy/fly them and let other players do.

 

IMHO, the real benefit of having FC planes around is it allows the guys, like me, who are just beginning to fly, to be able to go "baby step" with the game. I am not sure what would be the attrition rate if we were all forced to start playing the game with the A-10C . Pretty sure most players would give up after their first game.

 

Suggestions, All planes can be made with full fidelity but make the cockpit clickable as a programmable feature. Then, sell the FC model of the plane (cockpit click disabled) as a basic model. For example, the F-5. You can also sell the full fidelity (clickable cockpit) as the F-5s . That way, those who want something simpler get what they are looking for and when they mastered that model, can buy something more advanced. Doing this makes the FC players happy, the hardcore players happy and ED/3rd party happy :)

 

I agree with the "baby steps" part. I started off with FC3 and worked my way through the others.

 

I'm not sure how feasible it would be for ED or their partners to make an FC version and a full fidelity version of each plane. That's a lot of work that can be put to use on new modules.

 

That being said I'm all for FC versions of planes that are difficult or impossible to get the information for full fidelity. I would really like to see more 4th Gen Russian and Chinese planes developed but those can't be done full fidelity due to politics and legal issues. FC versions are the best we can hope for really.

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I would love to see all the FC3 aircraft bought fully up to the same level as all the other modules. Since F-14 & F/A-18 are coming soon, there really isn't any excuse to not make them. Having the A-10A is a total no brainer as well! My guess is the Russians don't want to see there current aircraft modeled with DCS World accuracy.

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Why are you all arguing about this? As I already said, ED have expressly stated they're not doing anything except full systems modeling. Afaik, 3rd parties are required to do so, as well.

 

And no, the difference between full systems and FC3 is not simply the cockpit being clickable or cold starts. There are a vast multitude of systems being modeled beyond simply 'flicking switches', even for just the weapon systems. The FC aircraft simply pretend none of that exists, and disregards ALL non-combat systems altogether. It is not something you can just ignore with a menu option.

 

If you need a basic introduction to flight, you can get that from any aircraft with minimal effort, or from any other sim if you're too lazy to watch a five minute youtube video on how to start your aircraft. Once you get it started you can study a little at a time. If you're getting bored, not learning, or don't have time, you're doing it wrong.


Edited by zhukov032186
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... If you're getting bored, not learning, or don't have time, you're doing it wrong.

 

If a person doesn't have time it's not because they are doing anything wrong. People have jobs, families, school, etc. Not everyone has time to learn sophisticated controls on every aircraft that comes around.

 

As for getting bored, some people need something simple and introductory to get their interest. Not everyone start off from birth as hardcore sim pilots.

 

As far as ED not doing any more FC version of planes; that's their call. We, as customers, reserve the right to let them know that at least some of us wouldn't mind a few more simplified aircraft.

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Would Like to See:

Mig-29K, Su-24, Mig-25, J-8II, J-10 , Tornado

 

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What I will say is that I don't mind FC style aircraft which lack interaction but I think that should constitute the 'game' mode of DCS. I also wouldn't mind seeing FC style aircraft added providing the full thing is in development. Therefore the FC aspect is more interim. What I think is the ideal solution is to have the current 'game' mode and 'simulation' mode, the game mode turns the aircraft into simplified FC style aircraft and simulation for the full thing. The problem with this is it's increased workload and further delays procurement time.

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

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What I will say is that I don't mind FC style aircraft which lack interaction but I think that should constitute the 'game' mode of DCS.

 

No, they shouldn't. They're nothing like 'game mode'.

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I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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They are certainly not up to level of simulation most, probably majority of us came to expect from DCS.

 

The game mode discussion aside, at the very least they belong on a different sim than DCS. The reality is however, there aren't any products today that cater to that type of sim, and it is not like ED would go out of their way and create two seperate lines of products. While there is almost exactly the same fidelity of FC3 available for WW2 aircraft, there aren't any for later aircraft anymore. So yeah, I do understand people first wanting to dip thier toes into something like that, or just plain not having much time to delve into other modules. But, that still doesn't change that the two levels of products sharing the same environment is not the ideal way as far as I'm concerned.

 

They may not be game mode, with full flight models, they are sims alright, and yes I'm aware that even the best DCS modules themselves have many realism issues etc. Still, even considering these factors, FC3 is no where near the same level of simulation as the DCS titles, and if an aircraft I'm interested in would be developed as FC3, I'd rather have it not developed at all... as that is not what I expect when I come to DCS.

 

Anyway... we all can discuss 'till the great crunch, or the vacuum death, and we'll still be unable to get anywhere near something that resemble an agreement, so like I've said before, I guess we'll just have to wait and see if there will be more FC3 level aircraft added into DCS World or not. I personally prefer not, but frankly, I care less and less about what happens here every passing day :P.

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

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They are certainly not up to level of simulation most, probably majority of us came to expect from DCS.

 

Citation please. Where's your data? I see plenty of FC3 aircraft in use, even by the more hard-core players who actually use more procedure than 'most', probably 'majority' of you who expect more from DCS.

ED won't be making more FC3 level aircraft, so they said. But they also said there is no limit on the fidelity or type of vehicle simulated.

 

But, that still doesn't change that the two levels of products sharing the same environment is not the ideal way as far as I'm concerned.

 

What difference does it make to you?

 

Still, even considering these factors, FC3 is no where near the same level of simulation as the DCS titles, and if an aircraft I'm interested in would be developed as FC3, I'd rather have it not developed at all... as that is not what I expect when I come to DCS.

 

Again, what difference does it make to you?

 

I guess we'll just have to wait and see if there will be more FC3 level aircraft added into DCS World or not. I personally prefer not, but frankly, I care less and less about what happens here every passing day :P.

 

Cubanace is building his FC3 level addons. The Community A-4 is FC3-ish.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Hell I play them sometimes, you can read that I say probably in my sentence, so I am not dressing my assumption to be scientifically measured. In fact as far as sales go I wouldn't be surprised if FC3 is the top seller by some margin: lotsa aircraft for money, "cool" aircraft, and they are classics from whole lock-on series of yore.

 

My point isn't that majority is against or for the FC3, it is simply that, "DCS" has long transcended what lock-on series culminated in the FC2. It is a different kind of simulation experience, and note that I'm not saying "FC3 is not sim, it's a game" etc, I do acknowledge it is a sim alright, just not the same as DCS. I would like to say, for me to enjoy a more "survey" kind of sim such as FC titles, I would expect a more dynamic environment where approximations of the aircraft and weapon capabilities as well as tactics in their use, can be played around with and enjoyed. I would dare say that, DCS at this point rather lacks in these, and take away the meticulous simluations of iconic aircraft from all over the world and time, at least for me nothing would be left in it to keep me interested in it.

 

What different does it make for me? Hell I'm pretty close to sayinh "not much anymore at this point" :D. But to indulge, regardless of HOTAS controls simplifying everything, the system modeling is simply not as close to reality in FC modules, and it is almost like in the environment, DCS and FC module are playing in the same soccer game, only with one team playing with a proper soccer ball, while the other is kicking a cannon shell... What other difference? Because I fear it can very possibly lead to a slippery slope where esier to create, more profitable FC modules will drown the will to create more labourous type of product, and market will work its magic to eventually kill or maim the coming of more full fidelity modules. I've posted before: an aircraft coming to DCS in any guise, so far often means it is not likely to appear in any other. If, say for example, I am interested in Tie Defender, and FC3 Tie Defender is made, it means I have lost a module that could be nice for me. Plain and simple...

 

I personally rate the community A-4 above FC3 level, with the very sad loss of an advanced flight model. Normally I care more for the flight model, but the guys are making great work with the systems, even though there are limits to what they can without the license and SDK. Operating the systems, making use of actual weapons system, sensor and navigation modes etc, puts it a notch above FC3 for me. I am waiting for it with great excitement, but I wish it could have been a full module. Still, for a free mod, I'm ok with its limitations.

 

Finally, for whole Cubanace thing, to be bluntly honest, I really don't much care what he does. The idea of PAKFA existing in DCS makes no sense for me, his approach in making things looks questionable to me, F-16 and MiG-23 should both be made by better, more reputable studios, and I hope someone else will get the Su-22 because that is an aircraft I am genuinely interested in, so seeing him getting a licence for that would be sad to see for me, unless his work seriously make me change my mind, which I doubt can happen at all.

 

But drifting off topic already...

 

Like I've said, we'll see whether there will be FC3 products for sale or not, and I'm not sure what we'll achieve by discussing the same things here over and over. I guess that's a wishlist thread, and some people rightfully said that it should be in their right to communicate their wishes, which is fair. And hence, I am communicating my wish for no more FC3 modules, and taking my leave, that's all :D.

 

Edit: Besides, you tell me... since you are known around these parts for your love and prowess in F-15C, would you not prefer to DCS: F-15, so you could make use of more radar modes with greater capabilities the real thing have, or datalink, etc?


Edited by WinterH

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

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No, they shouldn't.

 

Justification? I mean whilst I don't mind FC aircraft serving as interim or for a reduced difficulty setting (hence game mode) sounds fitting to me...

 

They're nothing like 'game mode'.

 

Again I present you with a question mark: ?

 

I know they're nothing like game mode - I know that. What I'm saying is why shouldn't they constitute game mode? Because turning off tool tips, infinite fuel whatever doesn't change DCS from being a full fidelity simulator to a more relaxed, more arcade style 'game' which to me is where the FC aircraft belong to.

 

That being said if they were optional (which would be more workload) or an interim solution (again slightly more work on the maintenance side of things) then I don't mind them being added so long as the full fidelity thing is going to be available in the future.

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

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Yessir!

 

According to many here, to be a real hardcore virtual pilot, you have to click on things and power them up from a cold start every time.

 

However, I'll bet nearly none of those anti-FC3 crowd use random system failures and every help function turned off. Or use real comm procedures and airfield arrival/departures. How many of you "full-real" crowd would truly walk through a 45 minute pre-flight each time you fly? Work through a continually slipping ETIC. Or move to a spare and start all over?

 

Heavy aircraft would be a great candidate for FC3 level. Easy start up, and filling a huge gap.

 

From experience, I see more people online flying the F-15, Su-27 and Su-25T than the others. This includes the more "hardcore" groups alongside the newbs.

 

My $.02. I don't think the money is actually there for FC3 planes. It sounds good but I think the Majority of player want a full fidelity Module. Saying look at this server with F-15 and other FC3 planes is a bit of a misleading statement as we don't have a 4th gen full fidelity Module yet that does A2A. Basically they're all we have for now. I asure you if there was a DCS F-16 no one would be flying the F-15. As to the idea that people don't use random failures or realistic comms or tactics, you clearly haven't been looking. There are a ton of groups that do just what you are talking about. I know that cause I'm in one. We mimic as close as we can to real world procedures, tactics, and training as we possible can inside of the DCS World. As for starting of "easy" to learn, it really isn't that difficult to learn the A-10C or the M2K vs the F-15C or FC3. But I sure get a lot more of of both. I think the direction ED is going is the correct one, I believe that is where the money is driving them.

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I know they're nothing like game mode - I know that.

 

Then case closed :)

 

What I'm saying is why shouldn't they constitute game mode? Because turning off tool tips, infinite fuel whatever doesn't change DCS from being a full fidelity simulator to a more relaxed, more arcade style 'game' which to me is where the FC aircraft belong to.

 

I could make the same claim with full fidelity modules, which are flown 'arcade style' all the time. There's nothing arcade about FC3 - how you fly is what makes it 'arcade' or 'hardcore'. If you were making arguments about aircraft with unrealistic abilities/FMs/Systems, that would be another story, but that's not what you're doing. You're just making some sort of clickpit superiority claim and it isn't even appropriate: What's the difference to you whether an opponent is flying an FC3 aircraft vs. an ASM aircraft? Or your buddy?

 

 

That being said if they were optional (which would be more workload) or an interim solution (again slightly more work on the maintenance side of things) then I don't mind them being added so long as the full fidelity thing is going to be available in the future.

 

They're already optional. As in you can build missions where no FC3 slots are available.

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Basically they're all we have for now. I asure you if there was a DCS F-16 no one would be flying the F-15.

 

I assure you that you're wrong.

 

As to the idea that people don't use random failures or realistic comms or tactics, you clearly haven't been looking.

 

... at the squads with FC3 aircraft that do so. :)

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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So no one was talking about FC3 planes with random fallers. Storms post was very specific on who he was talking about. And those people were anti-FC3 players. I do consider myself to be anti-FC3 due to limited fidelity. But I will retract my comment on the F-15 vs DCS F-16. I shouldn't have said no one, I should have said very few people would be flying the F-15.

 

But my point remains the same, if the money was there, ED would be going that route. Money talks.

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