Jump to content

F-14 as a pilot: A change in the total control we are used to in the F-15


Ghostrider142
 Share

Recommended Posts

I was thinking about what it will be like flying the Tomcat and not having total control over the radar/electronic side of the fight like we've (or at least me) become used to while flying the F-15.

 

I spend a lot of my focus pre-merge/WVR working the radar and the contacts; adjusting to this being done by the Jester AI or another player will be a big change.

 

Thinking out loud, will there be a function to switch seats with the AI, say 80NM out and going for a Phoenix kill?

 

Just wanted to see what others thought about this different role as a pilot. :joystick:

i7-4770K @3.50GHz; EVGA 1070 8GB Superclocked; 16GB Ram; MSI Z97 Gaming; two Samsung 500GB SSD's in RAID; TrackIR; 32" 2560x1440 Samsung

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was thinking about what it will be like flying the Tomcat and not having total control over the radar/electronic side of the fight like we've (or at least me) become used to while flying the F-15.

 

I spend a lot of my focus pre-merge/WVR working the radar and the contacts; adjusting to this being done by the Jester AI or another player will be a big change.

 

Thinking out loud, will there be a function to switch seats with the AI, say 80NM out and going for a Phoenix kill?

 

Just wanted to see what others thought about this different role as a pilot. :joystick:

 

I believe there will be a rudimentary autopilot that will have the AI pilot just fly the aircraft S&L (much like any current AP in DCS) and you can jump in the backseat and work all the systems. Will be great if they have a simple, roll left/right, climb & descend using the trim button from the back like with the Mirage AP I believe it is. Would work very well considering you can launch from the back seat too.

You could program that to Voice Attack and talk to your pilot from the back and give basic directions for the intercept, then jump in the front seat approaching the merge :thumbup:

Asus Maximus VIII Hero Alpha| i7-6700K @ 4.60GHz | nVidia GTX 1080ti Strix OC 11GB @ 2075MHz| 16GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200Mhz DDR4 CL14 |

Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 SSD | Corsair Force LE 480GB SSD | Windows 10 64-Bit | TM Warthog with FSSB R3 Lighting Base | VKB Gunfighter Pro + MCG | TM MFD's | Oculus Rift S | Jetseat FSE

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

will be something else to be with another person in the cockpit.

the german airforce had a similar issue after the transfer from F-104 to F-4

the pilots had to get used to working with another guy.

 

i think it will be helpful to have someone who is flying with you regulary.

so that you know each other and know what he means with "bandit at front o´clock!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

on the flip side i hope there's a serverside option to disable jester.

 

i want to fight people, not bots.

 

You can't expect people to fly with a handicap of having to do 2 person's job at the same time. Cobra just stated Jester won't be an UberAI kind of cheat. I sure won't fly on any server where I have to swap between seats in the middle of a dogfight, and I don't think I'm alone with this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

whats wrong with making friends?

 

Whith such condescending comments from you, almost everytime I read your posts on this forum, I wonder how can you get friends in the first place.

Sorry but I'm just amazed how you dare to expect everyone must disable AI copilot and be forced to play with human WSO everytime.

  • Like 1

I'll buy :

МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it violates the essence of player versus player. the crew is part and parcel of the f-14 -- it's a 2 person aircraft and it should work both ways -- if you win, you win as a crew, and if you lose, you lose as a crew.

say you chose to play a team deathmatch game and one team brings 4 people and you instead bring yourself and 3 bots, win or lose that is robbing the other team of a proper fight!

 

do note that my suggestion is that it be a serverside option, so you can have your solo experience on servers that do not have an emphasis on pvp.


Edited by probad

МИР

Link to comment
Share on other sites

whats wrong with making friends?

 

Because servers will have dozens of qualified RIO-s that cannot wait to jump in my backseat, and we'll work together like oiled machinery.

 

I just dreamed up those times when in RoF they enabled multi crews online, and people jumped in my backseat popping flares like it was the 4th of July, then shooting my own wings off. They eventually had to give the player the option to disable their backseats.

 

Aren't you upset by people flying Hueys with AI gunners on PvP server? Or AI SAM sites? AI AWACS and Tankers?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because servers will have dozens of qualified RIO-s that cannot wait to jump in my backseat, and we'll work together like oiled machinery.

 

I just dreamed up those times when in RoF they enabled multi crews online, and people jumped in my backseat popping flares like it was the 4th of July, then shooting my own wings off. They eventually had to give the player the option to disable their backseats.

 

Aren't you upset by people flying Hueys with AI gunners on PvP server? Or AI SAM sites? AI AWACS and Tankers?

 

RIOs aren't huey gunners. They will operate the most frightening aa radar-missile combo in the whole of DCS so poor analogy.

I can see that jester will be godsend in single player but come on... join mp and have an ai managing the whole of radar target acquisition and target engagement for you? Arcade as hell...

 

I said many times that 2 seat is the most important attribute of all these planes that are coming in dcs (f14,f4 or mi24) nothing else is as important.

People have no clue about crew resource management and think it will be like hoping on an f15 but better. They are in for a bitter disappointment.

I can see endless amounts of bitching when the first 2 seater comes out and no helper ai can stop that from happening.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can see that jester will be godsend in single player but come on... join mp and have an ai managing the whole of radar target acquisition and target engagement for you? Arcade as hell...

 

Tell that to real F-14 pilots...

 

It will only be "arcade as hell" if Jester has superhuman skills. But in that case the remedy is not to disable Jester online but to fix it so that he/she acts in a realistic way.

 

Jumping between seats will be a massive immersion killer, and I sure don't want a random guy to jump in my backseat.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heatblur/Leatherneck delivered, until now, top of the line modules.

i just don believe that there is any doubt in the community about the quality and balance of Jester. i think it will be top of the line and pretty good balanced and if there is a flaw or finetuning needed they will do it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a pilot..the Tomcat is going to be much more difficult to effectively fly and fight vs the F-15. Because it's larger and heavier, even with the big fat GE's in the B vs the TF30's and their well known issues with the A, energy management and pre-planning maneuvers will be critical.

The Eagle has a bit of control assist in that it'll automatically kick the rudders in a bit with a turn to keep it stable and going where you want it to. The Tomcat, presumably since it didn't have it in reality until the 90's with the DFCS, won't have any form of assist..so if you go too hard ..hold on because you're going for a ride.

 

For the Tomcat..think big, fight small. Try not to drop below 350 and about 8,000 feet, otherwise you'll be faced with a situation where you can't turn, can't regain energy and will be a grape, ripe for picking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

whats wrong with making friends?

 

I had a group of 8 guys playing DCS with me, we were rocking and rolling for several months, doing carrier quals with a greenie board and everything... until the latest graphical stuttering issues have killed them off 1 by 1, they're all waiting on the 14 and 18 and fixes now, but I'm still making missions and playing alone for now.

 

That being said, only 1 of those 8 was willing to be a RIO, everyone wants to be a pilot. RIO's will be the hottest thing since 1/72 F-14A models were after Top Gun hit the theaters :megalol:

i7-4770K @3.50GHz; EVGA 1070 8GB Superclocked; 16GB Ram; MSI Z97 Gaming; two Samsung 500GB SSD's in RAID; TrackIR; 32" 2560x1440 Samsung

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a pilot..the Tomcat is going to be much more difficult to effectively fly and fight vs the F-15. Because it's larger and heavier...

 

Have you read the entire 'How is F-14 maneuverability?' thread?

 

Specifically every post by people like, say for example, Lunaticfringe? Here they are :thumbup:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/search.php?searchid=15866780&pp=25&page=2

 

 

Back on topic I'm feeling that the F-14 will be at a disadvantage when being played solo vs Flaming Cliffs fighters, however with two humans who know their roles well, no competition. That extra set of eyes alone is massive in a dogfight.

 

I will have a real human RIO eventually, but he won't be playing every time I am. I often jump on during the day and do missions solo vs the AI, I'm just wondering how the F-14 will be, will it be competitive and fun being played that way?

i7-4770K @3.50GHz; EVGA 1070 8GB Superclocked; 16GB Ram; MSI Z97 Gaming; two Samsung 500GB SSD's in RAID; TrackIR; 32" 2560x1440 Samsung

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was thinking about what it will be like flying the Tomcat and not having total control over the radar/electronic side of the fight like we've (or at least me) become used to while flying the F-15.

 

I spend a lot of my focus pre-merge/WVR working the radar and the contacts; adjusting to this being done by the Jester AI or another player will be a big change.

 

Thinking out loud, will there be a function to switch seats with the AI, say 80NM out and going for a Phoenix kill?

 

Just wanted to see what others thought about this different role as a pilot. :joystick:

 

on the flip side i hope there's a serverside option to disable jester.

 

i want to fight people, not bots.

 

 

You can Jump Seats now in other Multi-Seat Aircraft,

 

So... I'd think you can hop to the back and do whatever, then hop back to the front.

 

Disabling Jester AI online would basically make the aircraft useless without another human.,

Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill,

X470 Taichi Ultimate, R7970 Lightning @ 1.2 / 6 GHz Memory

3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RIOs aren't huey gunners. They will operate the most frightening aa radar-missile combo in the whole of DCS so poor analogy.

I can see that jester will be godsend in single player but come on... join mp and have an ai managing the whole of radar target acquisition and target engagement for you? Arcade as hell...

 

I have to propose that the word "arcade" be banned from all flight sim forums from now on. You might as well place the word "rfnrllrf" there. The AI is a RIO. There is no conceptual difference between it and a human player.

 

Now of course we don't know exactly how JESTER will work, but that goes both ways - you can't be listing how it will negatively impact online (or how you think it will do this) because you don't know.

 

In any case, it's not going to be arcade. To be frank, even saying that is kind of ridiculous. Far more "arcade" would be unqualified human RIO's jumping into back seats on a whim.

 

I said many times that 2 seat is the most important attribute of all these planes that are coming in dcs (f14,f4 or mi24) nothing else is as important.

This is why JESTER is a thing. It's not there to make an "arcade" game.

 

People have no clue about crew resource management and think it will be like hoping on an f15 but better. They are in for a bitter disappointment.

I can see endless amounts of bitching when the first 2 seater comes out and no helper ai can stop that from happening.

 

Then I guess the AI is doing it's job?

Awaiting: DCS F-15C

Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would point out that the entire Arma series has ALWAYS had multicrew, and it's never really a problem there to do a full player vehicle, or even multiple full player vehicles.

 

Very... easy... solution : rotate positions occasionally. One guy is pilot tonight, next night another guy is pilot. Or just... like... grow up and play the game? :P

 

It is not crippling to be forced to have a player. It's a two-man aircraft. And no, it's not the same as the Huey having AI gunners. Those AI gunners have no significant effect on the aircraft or anything else really. A RIO is a completely different concept.

 

They HAVE to have some sort of rudimentary AI to manage some of the functions, for the purpose of SP, campaigns, etc. That's just a given, duh. But on MP servers? The norm should be to get a friend to fly it with you. That doesn't mean you can't fly the aircraft, you can... OFFLINE.

 

If you want a touchy feely, "I can make it MY way" kind of experience, may I direct you to a certain WWII game that has mouse aim gunners. DCS is a hardcore study sim. That's what 99% of the population here wants, now don't go whining and moaning about getting it -_-

 

It is not THAT hard to find somebody to play with, and if you approach it LIKE A TEAM, then nobody is going to feel short changed.

 

Welcome to the real world, despite what our parents tell us, we're not special, we're not all going to be Tom Cruise or Admiral Adama, many of us are just regular runts and nobodys. Power fantasies are for other games. In this one you should be expected to man up, do the time, and do what it takes... and that includes making ONE FRIEND in your TZ who is willing to fly with you. If you can't do that, then you're not doing a very good job of selling the idea to them :) I've even got my totally not flight sim interested brother willing to RIO for me in the F-14, just because I've made it sound interesting.

Новий рік, і Україна переможе! Слава Україні, героям слава!

5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want a touchy feely, "I can make it MY way" kind of experience, may I direct you to a certain WWII game that has mouse aim gunners.

I've not flown the UH-1 in a while, but correct me, doesn't it have mouse aim gunners? Which don't make it any less of a sim?

 

This doesn't really have much to do with the RIO issue anyway.

Awaiting: DCS F-15C

Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know this will probably be a difficult idea to grasp for some, and I think the whole concept will be hard for some people without any relevant experience - but I am fearing a bit of "AI RIO will be 'cheat mode' for radar acquisition and too good etc etc" train of thought.

 

I have flown many years sitting up the front of an aircraft with specialist radar operators and EO turret operators down the back - and I can assure you they can operate just as well as any computer in acquiring and sorting targets and operating the equipment....usually even better!

 

These are very highly trained specialists that spend their entire time fine tuning and perfecting their operation of specific equipment. Why would they NOT be awesome at it?

 

We obviously have no idea how 'competent' Jester will be yet - I just hope people will stop and consider the implications of going up against a 2-man crewed aircraft, and that the (AI) guy in the back will be a highly skilled radar operator with excellent visual acquisition and tracking skills etc honed by hundreds/thousands of hours of training/flying - so if he can do his job well it is not a 'Cheat Mode' or 'Arcade as Hell', but expected.

 

Tomcat pilots regularly commented that they were at an advantage with a 2-man crew over single-seat opponents, particularly during dogfights.

 

I just fear the amount of salt when this is realised in DCS....


Edited by VampireNZ

Asus Maximus VIII Hero Alpha| i7-6700K @ 4.60GHz | nVidia GTX 1080ti Strix OC 11GB @ 2075MHz| 16GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200Mhz DDR4 CL14 |

Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 SSD | Corsair Force LE 480GB SSD | Windows 10 64-Bit | TM Warthog with FSSB R3 Lighting Base | VKB Gunfighter Pro + MCG | TM MFD's | Oculus Rift S | Jetseat FSE

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always get a laugh at the "this isn't XYZ sim, we're SERIOUS here".

 

BMS guys feel the same way about DCS..that it's all sky quake and isn't for hardcore simmers.

 

Just let people enjoy the damn thing without nosing your own need to be elite into it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know this will probably be a difficult idea to grasp for some, and I think the whole concept will be hard for some people without any relevant experience - but I am fearing a bit of "AI RIO will be 'cheat mode' for radar acquisition and too good etc etc" train of thought.

 

I have flown many years sitting up the front of an aircraft with specialist radar operators and EO turret operators down the back - and I can assure you they can operate just as well as any computer in acquiring and sorting targets and operating the equipment....usually even better!

 

These are very highly trained specialists that spend their entire time fine tuning and perfecting their operation of specific equipment. Why would they NOT be awesome at it?

 

We obviously have no idea how 'competent' Jester will be yet - I just hope people will stop and consider the implications of going up against a 2-man crewed aircraft, and that the (AI) guy in the back will be a highly skilled radar operator with excellent visual acquisition and tracking skills etc honed by hours of training/flying - so if he can do his job well it is not a 'cheat mode' or 'Arcade as Hell', but expected.

 

Tomcat pilots regularly commented that they were at an advantage with a 2-man crew over single-seat opponents, particularly during dogfights.

 

I just fear the amount of salt when this is realised in DCS....

 

Jester AI: OMG THAT'S CHEATING

 

Really Good RIO: OMG NO FAIR I'M IN A FLANKER AND HAVE TO BOTH FLY AND FIGHT AND RUN THE RADAR OMG

 

Exceptional RIO: OMG THIS IS BULLCRAP THE F-14 IS OP JUST DON'T ALLOW IT ON THIS SERVER.

 

Don't believe me? Watch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...