Jump to content

no waypoint info on HUD with landing gear down


wernst
 Share

Recommended Posts

I guess the reasoning behind it is that if you're lowering your gear you either have the field already in sight, or you're following ILS down. Once you're on final after a base turn or 5nm for a straight-in there's really no need for precise distance to the airfield.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The distance is also shown on the HSI.

 

Sent from my P00A using Tapatalk

--Maulkin

 

 

Windows 10 64-bit - AMD Ryzen 9 5900X @ 3.7 GHz - 32 GB DDR4 3600MHz RAM - EVGA FTW3 RTX 3080 - Asus Crosshair VIII Hero motherboard - Samsung EVO Pro 1 TB SSD - TrackIR 4 Pro - Thrustmaster Warthog - Saitek rudder pedals - Lilliput UM-80/C with TM Cougars

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The distance is also shown on the HSI.

 

Right, distance is always shown on the HSI. But the function of the HUD is to have

all important flight parameters just in front of your eyes without the need of moving your head.

With display on the HUD you don't need to look down to the panel instruments and searching for important information.

For distance you would have to continuously looking down from HUD to HIS and up again to HUD while you are approaching.

In bad weather with low visibility you surely want to know how close you are to the runway.


Edited by wernst
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sure but I was simply pointing out the information is available. I guess once your landing gear is down you are so close that the distance is no longer critical information

--Maulkin

 

 

Windows 10 64-bit - AMD Ryzen 9 5900X @ 3.7 GHz - 32 GB DDR4 3600MHz RAM - EVGA FTW3 RTX 3080 - Asus Crosshair VIII Hero motherboard - Samsung EVO Pro 1 TB SSD - TrackIR 4 Pro - Thrustmaster Warthog - Saitek rudder pedals - Lilliput UM-80/C with TM Cougars

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Right, distance is always shown on the HSI. But the function of the HUD is to have

all important flight parameters just in front of your eyes without the need of moving your head.

With display on the HUD you don't need to look down to the panel instruments and searching for important information.

For distance you would have to continuously looking down from HUD to HIS and up again to HUD while you are approaching.

In bad weather with low visibility you surely want to know how close you are to the runway.

 

IIRC in bad weather you should not rely mainly on the HUD for landings, but on the IDN/HSI and the ADI.

 

I will look how it is in the real manual when I have time.

Helljumper - M2000C Guru

 

Helljumper's Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the M-2000C, the HUD is the primary ILS instrument.

 

Indeed it was designed to be primary ILS instrument.

 

However, some reports from "well informed people" seem to point out pilots are rather instructed to use head down instruments.

Mirage fanatic !

I7-7700K/ MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming X/ RAM 32 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Saitek X-55 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Rift S

M-2000C X-55 VR profile / M-2000C custom SERVAL symbols assignation

Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Indeed it was designed to be primary ILS instrument.

 

However, some reports from "well informed people" seem to point out pilots are rather instructed to use head down instruments.

 

well, folks, my question here is not whether the pilot should be looking at the HUD or better trust the “head down instruments” only.

My question is: Which sense does it make that the waypoint info (distance, number) on the HUD disappears when the gear is extended?

When gear down I should not trust the HUD display anymore?

If so, then for what is the HUD for? What about combat, ILS landing . . .? Is HUD of help or is it lying?

Is the HUD obsolete?? I assume that the HUD shows the same information in digital format what sensors have measured.

The sensors give the same information to the HUD as to the head down instruments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well, folks, my question here is not whether the pilot should be looking at the HUD or better trust the “head down instruments” only.

My question is: Which sense does it make that the waypoint info (distance, number) on the HUD disappears when the gear is extended?

When gear down I should not trust the HUD display anymore?

If so, then for what is the HUD for? What about combat, ILS landing . . .? Is HUD of help or is it lying?

Is the HUD obsolete?? I assume that the HUD shows the same information in digital format what sensors have measured.

The sensors give the same information to the HUD as to the head down instruments.

 

You seem very concerned by this? :huh:

 

Exactly how far are you flying with your gear down? Have you forgotten your landing WP number? Are you commencing the final stages of landing and not know where you are?

 

Are you aware you 'generally' don't extend gear until you have captured the glideslope on ILS of an instrument approach. Or are passing the threshold on the downwind leg of a visual circuit.

I would be concerned if you were conducting an instrument approach and intercepting the glideslope (or in the visual circuit following the break!) and didn't know your distance from the airfield.

 

You ask what is a HUD for - it is for displaying 'important' information with the minimum of CLUTTER. Just because a HUD can display something, doesn't mean it has too. I am sure Dassault consulted with pilots on the display architecture of their HUD system, and they are pretty clever people - I am sure they don't get lost on finals. ;)

 

I assume the HUD being obsolete comment was just some passive aggro comment based on your apparent exasperation with the whole 'situation' - as obviously you know it is not.

Asus Maximus VIII Hero Alpha| i7-6700K @ 4.60GHz | nVidia GTX 1080ti Strix OC 11GB @ 2075MHz| 16GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200Mhz DDR4 CL14 |

Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 SSD | Corsair Force LE 480GB SSD | Windows 10 64-Bit | TM Warthog with FSSB R3 Lighting Base | VKB Gunfighter Pro + MCG | TM MFD's | Oculus Rift S | Jetseat FSE

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You seem very concerned by this? :huh:

 

I assume the HUD being obsolete comment was just some passive aggro comment based on your apparent exasperation with the whole 'situation' - as obviously you know it is not.

 

Learning to understand wording (from a German) may not be easy, but please read carefully or try to understand the sense of an expression in the whole context.

“Is the HUD obsolete” was not at all an “aggro comment based on my apparent exasperation”. No "aggro", it was a rhetoric question. Of course the HUD isn’t obsolete, the full opposite is true.

 

To shorten this story. Why do you think many of the ILS stations with CAT II or CAT III have an additional DME transmitter system?

It’s for the pilot to receive distance information during landing in IFR conditions. Being on the glide slope, watching the CDI are important guidance for ILS landings.

But knowing the distance to touch down is equally important: Knowing how many "time" I have for last corrections before the RWY appears in the fog.

. . . .says a real PPL pilot with IFR licence (expired)


Edited by wernst
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But knowing the distance to touch down is equally important: Knowing how many "time" I have for last corrections before the RWY appears in the fog.

. . . .says a real PPL pilot with IFR licence (expired)

 

I would suggest the altitude would provide that information quite well ....says a real aircrew in the Air Force. But what would I know about flying right, apologies for trying to help.

Asus Maximus VIII Hero Alpha| i7-6700K @ 4.60GHz | nVidia GTX 1080ti Strix OC 11GB @ 2075MHz| 16GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3200Mhz DDR4 CL14 |

Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 SSD | Corsair Force LE 480GB SSD | Windows 10 64-Bit | TM Warthog with FSSB R3 Lighting Base | VKB Gunfighter Pro + MCG | TM MFD's | Oculus Rift S | Jetseat FSE

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Once you're on final after a base turn or 5nm for a straight-in there's really no need for precise distance to the airfield.

 

That is so not true IRL. Precise distance to runway is a MUST when performing ILS approaches. All charts will require you to have DME on ILS.

 

Its actually a missing feature in the Mirage that was already discussed.

Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the airport is your landing waypoint then you will have the distance on the HSI if set to Nav.

 

If the airport is not your landing waypoint you wont have ANY distance measure in cockpit to rely on, which is totally against all IFR regulations worldwide. The real Mirage has DME interrogation to the ILS station, DCS one doesnt.

 

 

Cheers.

Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is so not true IRL. Precise distance to runway is a MUST when performing ILS approaches. All charts will require you to have DME on ILS.

 

Its actually a missing feature in the Mirage that was already discussed.

 

Exactly. Distance information to the field either from DME receiver or from INS NAV is a MUST.

If DCS Mirage doesn’t show DME from ILS station but NAV distance only - fine.

But the distance display should always stay on the HUD, especially during the final stage of an ILS approach.

The waypoint display (distance, number) should not disappear from the HUD when the gear goes down, being then displayed on the HIS and INS only.

Why? It doesn’t make sense at all. Distance to the field is always critical in an ILS approach.

Height is redundant when being well on the glide slope; approach course is secured when following the CDI.

Display of SLOPE, CDI - AND . . . DISTANCE enable a safe ILS landing in the fog.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why? It doesn’t make sense at all. Distance to the field is always critical in an ILS approach.

Height is redundant when being well on the glide slope; approach course is secured when following the CDI.

 

The whole ILS symbology on the HUD does not make much sense. The vertical ILS deviation line that is projected without any reference points, and which on the picture in the manual looks more like virtual runway extension line. The box that shows ILS deviation instead working as a flight director like in F-16 or any other commercial airplane.

 

The M-2000 manual that is available online does not have much detail on how the real landing system works, so I think Razbam used some creative license when coding the HUD.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=179299

Hardware: Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Hotas Cougar, Slaw Rudder, Wheel Stand Pro, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Reverb

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The whole ILS symbology on the HUD does not make much sense. The vertical ILS deviation line that is projected without any reference points, and which on the picture in the manual looks more like virtual runway extension line. The box that shows ILS deviation instead working as a flight director like in F-16 or any other commercial airplane.

 

The M-2000 manual that is available online does not have much detail on how the real landing system works, so I think Razbam used some creative license when coding the HUD.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=179299

 

+1 it doesnt make any sense at all despite what non pilots might say. The synthetyc Runway is amazing though.

Intel Core i5-8600k + Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO | Gigabyte GTX 1070 Aorus 8G | 32GB DDR4 Corsair Vengance LPX Black 3200MHz | Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 3 | WD Black SN750 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB | WD Green 240GB | WD Caviar Black 1TB SATA 3 | WD Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 3 | EVGA 650 GQ 80+ Gold | Samsung CF391 Curved 32" | Corsair 400C | Steelseries Arctis 5 --- Razer Kraken X Lite | Logitech G305 | Redragon Dyaus 2 K509 | Xbox 360 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Thrustmaster TWCS | TrackIR 5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't been able to find many M-2000 HUD landing examples

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=167707&stc=1&d=1503001155

 

This is from a M-2000D? that failed to reach the runway and pilot had to ejected at 100 ft.

 

There's a similar HUD picture for a M-2000 that belly landed "gear up", it'd be strange if the HUD changed significantly with gear down, but the pilot never noticed ?

 

163901978_M-2000DLandingHUD1310ft.jpg.919684b34e99dff1df24e05968b481a4.jpg

i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX2070 Super 8GB, 1TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 1+1TB SSD, MSFFB2 joystick, X52 Pro Throttle, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The pilot has to select the "APP" mode on PCA to get landing symbology.

You can do it with gear up.

Mirage fanatic !

I7-7700K/ MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming X/ RAM 32 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Saitek X-55 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Rift S

M-2000C X-55 VR profile / M-2000C custom SERVAL symbols assignation

Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The pilot has to select the "APP" mode on PCA to get landing symbology.

You can do it with gear up.

 

It just seems strange the pilot looses the HUD distance info when lowering the landing gear (with/without ILS capture).

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=167731&stc=1&d=1503040808

 

However, the Mirage F1 has the same HUD Gear Down 'logic', so perhaps it's a French/Dassault thing ?

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=167732&stc=1&d=1503040808

 

M2000C_Landing_HUD_1670_ft_DCS_1_5_7.thumb.jpg.af81ee1e5d84961d48e19eae3399cdb1.jpg

F1_Landing_Gear_Down.JPG.61b122de1036e806cdcab65c4641e8f4.JPG


Edited by Ramsay

i9 9900K @4.7GHz, 64GB DDR4, RTX2070 Super 8GB, 1TB NVMe, 6+4TB HD, 1+1TB SSD, MSFFB2 joystick, X52 Pro Throttle, TIR5, Win 10 Pro x64, 1920X1080

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It just seems strange the pilot looses the HUD distance info when lowering the landing gear (with/without ILS capture).

 

It seems strange to me too. Maybe it's a valid bug.

 

But selecting APP mode seems to solve the issue for now, and you're supposed to use APP mode to land.

Mirage fanatic !

I7-7700K/ MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming X/ RAM 32 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Saitek X-55 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Rift S

M-2000C X-55 VR profile / M-2000C custom SERVAL symbols assignation

Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems strange to me too. Maybe it's a valid bug.

 

But selecting APP mode seems to solve the issue for now, and you're supposed to use APP mode to land.

 

No, unfortunately not. In APP mode

- with gear up: waypoint info (distance to, no.) on the HUD

- with gear down: no waypoint info on the HUD anymore

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...