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** UPDATE: F-14 Flight Model - Episode I - "The Basics" **


Cobra847

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Great video, thanks for sharing!

 

How many episode can we expect ?

 

The lack of AoA limitator and the large flight control surfaces should make quite easy to reach max AoA. Probably you don't have to pull full back to get there. To me, behaviour seen in the video looks right, but more insightful analysis with available E-M plots would be desirable

 

Regards

 

Not sure if it's any help but they posted some charts comparison in their FB page

 

Heatblur facebook page, charts comparisons


Edited by JaNk0

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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What I find interesting is how hard it is to pull high AoA, the plane basically refused to turn....

 

I wonder how hard he was yanking his stick backward to achieve this behavior.

 

I'm pretty sure Cobra is showing off the high AOA "bad behaviors" with maximum or near maximum back stick. The Tomcat certainly had an ideal AOA range for turn performance (around 15-20 units iirc) and exceeding that was generally unhelpful. Also, the high AOA behaviors were different banked vs wings level. With wings level, the dihedral effect really stabilized the airframe and pilots could peg the AOA (and beyond) without much ill-effects besides bleeding off all their airspeed (which is an ill-effect I guess).

 

Much like the F-86F or F-15C, best turn performance will require a certain stick input and pulling the stick into your gut will probably not work well. Thats how I interpreted it. :)

 

The lack of AoA limitator and the large flight control surfaces should make quite easy to reach max AoA. Probably you don't have to pull full back to get there. To me, behaviour seen in the video looks right, but more insightful analysis with available E-M plots would be desirable

 

Regards

 

I don't think there is much direct, published references that show optimal control inputs, but there is some NASA control-response data that Heatblur as access to. From all accounts, this FM was built around solid data and there were lots of references for airframe behavior.

 

Also, very true about big control surfaces and no AOA-based limits on deflection. While the stab aug does reduce or slow inputs in pitch somewhat, the huge elevons require only moderate sized control inputs to generate optimal turn performance (like so many other jets in DCS). The size and available deflection was driven by other factors, like overcoming the aircraft's stubborn pitch response in the landing configuration, where big (but precise) control inputs where needed to make effective pitch adjustments. As you can see here in the groove at 2:04:

 

 

These kind of big control inputs were not needed (or helpful) in normal flight, but the unskilled (or unwise) pilot can certainly upset the airframe with this sort of thing. Lots of control authority!

 

My guess from the video is that behavior is quite correct, but virtual pilots won't be doing things the same way (in general). :)

 

-Nick


Edited by BlackLion213
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We all are very grateful as DCS community having Heatblure Simulations with us.

You are doing great job and getting more fans as we speak for your close relationship with costumers and DCS enthusiasts.

 

 

Good luck and wish you a smooth ride a long the way Heatblure Simulations.

Thank you for the update.

 

I concur. I'm very grateful to have these talented guys developing for DCS. They keep plugging away producing breathtaking stuff. Really look forward to the interaction with the A.I RIO I believe this module will break the mould. Getting my hands on the Tomcat will fulfill a boyhood dream.

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I'm pretty sure Cobra is showing off the high AOA "bad behaviors" with maximum or near maximum back stick. The Tomcat certainly had an ideal AOA range for turn performance (around 15-20 units iirc) and exceeding that was generally unhelpful. Also, the high AOA behaviors were different banked vs wings level. With wings level, the dihedral effect really stabilized the airframe and pilots could peg the AOA (and beyond) without much ill-effects besides bleeding off all their airspeed (which is an ill-effect I guess).

 

 

 

What I find interesting is how hard it is to pull high AoA, the plane basically refused to turn....

 

I wonder how hard he was yanking his stick backward to achieve this behavior.

 

I'm guessing (by the AC attitude) this is at very low speed (maybe at or bellow 200KIAS) and with full or near full aft stick. In those conditions she's essentially floating like a lief.....

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

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Dear Cobra, I'm no negativist, I purchased the Viggen and Mig-21 as soon as the shop was open. I have not flown heavy fighters in my career, just nimble two seat training jet some 25 odd years ago. I have flying experience from various types, the latest mil bird was Pc-9 hands on some 10 years ago. What I'm missing in your video (and in sims in general) is some sense of weight, even the most agile fighters do have some inertia, both weight and aerodynamicaly induced. Again, I have 0 time on Tomcat and I can only guess from the videos how it handled and I can only trust you guys to deliver something good :)

 

Lately I've been mostly satisfied by Hawk's latest FM, it gives me the biggest suspension of disbelief. I'm also aware, that it is much to the joystick and its settings to deliver something truly believable in terms of handling.

 

Good luck with the Cat, will be buying this one for sure, if not for other reasons to support your efforts.

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Well I do think the video did demonstrate a bit of the weight of the aircraft, like when they were showing the wing spoilers and such..right about a minute in. If you watch some of the footage of the Tomcat in action from the cockpit you'll see a similar sense of heft.

 

However, the Tomcat was also almost unnaturally nimble for such a large fighter, it didn't ever behave like you'd expect a 25 ton aircraft to be.

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Well I do think the video did demonstrate a bit of the weight of the aircraft, like when they were showing the wing spoilers and such..right about a minute in. If you watch some of the footage of the Tomcat in action from the cockpit you'll see a similar sense of heft.

 

However, the Tomcat was also almost unnaturally nimble for such a large fighter, it didn't ever behave like you'd expect a 25 ton aircraft to be.

 

The only way i can think of simulating the feel of inertia in a sim, is by stick input lag and stick input amplitude. Aside from that......a force feedback stick maybe? But i haven's seen one of those in a while..... :huh:

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

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Just watched the video. I'm rarely as amazed as I was afterwards.

 

Just from watching it, you can "feel" how the aircraft strains to defy the laws of physics in order to stay airborne. The Tomcat's an absolutely wonderful plane, but I see what people when they say "it takes muscle."

 

I just hope Heatblur takes their sweet time. I want absolute perfection!

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@cobra is the curvature of the wings at high g s already available, in the video?

System

 

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tomcat eats the viper for breakfast :P

Lange lebe die Tomcat": Long live the Cat!

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Dear Cobra, I'm no negativist, I purchased the Viggen and Mig-21 as soon as the shop was open. I have not flown heavy fighters in my career, just nimble two seat training jet some 25 odd years ago. I have flying experience from various types, the latest mil bird was Pc-9 hands on some 10 years ago. What I'm missing in your video (and in sims in general) is some sense of weight, even the most agile fighters do have some inertia, both weight and aerodynamicaly induced. Again, I have 0 time on Tomcat and I can only guess from the videos how it handled and I can only trust you guys to deliver something good :)

 

Lately I've been mostly satisfied by Hawk's latest FM, it gives me the biggest suspension of disbelief. I'm also aware, that it is much to the joystick and its settings to deliver something truly believable in terms of handling.

 

Good luck with the Cat, will be buying this one for sure, if not for other reasons to support your efforts.

 

My brother in law mentions the same thing, he is/was a pilot and talked about the aircraft responding with a bit of lag and that it isn't an instant response like in sims.

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I have 0 time in the F14 but 2000 hours in the Tornado F3 I watched the video but find it impossible to give good feedback without being able to feel the control inputs, however, I will say that I have had "0" problems with the flight models in DCS while there are the odd bugbears " blackout in 2 sec, "Aim120" ! " overall its great fun and feels pretty realistic. I have 130hours in the T38 it was a twitchy bugger and the F5 is the same. I have had a quick "chat" with Heatblur specifically about wing rock if you manually leave the wings back and from the the feedback they gave me, it all sounded good. Our control inputs have a massive effect on how a plane feels and they are an enormous variable, I am confident that we will get realistic simulation of the F14.

 

I now fly a B777 now thats control Lag

 

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I have 0 time in the F14 but 2000 hours in the Tornado F3 I watched the video but find it impossible to give good feedback without being able to feel the control inputs, however, I will say that I have had "0" problems with the flight models in DCS while there are the odd bugbears " blackout in 2 sec, "Aim120" ! " overall its great fun and feels pretty realistic. I have 130hours in the T38 it was a twitchy bugger and the F5 is the same. I have had a quick "chat" with Heatblur specifically about wing rock if you manually leave the wings back and from the the feedback they gave me, it all sounded good. Our control inputs have a massive effect on how a plane feels and they are an enormous variable, I am confident that we will get realistic simulation of the F14.

 

I now fly a B777 now thats control Lag

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

Wow interesting WindyTX, what was your opinion of the Tornado F3 may I ask, good aeroplane?

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Yep for war it was way better than the press it got, good Radar, great RWR and Link 16 , a good friend came back from the marine F18 exchange and his comment was loved the Aircraft but would rather go to war in an F3. Oh and it was the fastest thing out there after the F111 retired. The bad under powered ( tho all Pilots say that ), gen 3.5 maneuverability, it will kill an F4 in a straight turning fight but against an F15 ,16,18 you get one shot on him if he doesnt realise how quickly an F3 can bleed energy. So we would never enter a fight without advantage and thanks to its sensors and 2 seats thats not as hard as it sounds. Really looking forward to the F14 as its basically the same role as I did and as I mentioned previously it sounds like Heatblur are doing it right. We are already putting SOP's together and constituting crews on the 16AGR so I just wish they would hurry up.

 

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Edited by WindyTX
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