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Fighting the P51


Tinkickef
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Usually just fly around the countryside, enjoying the view. Occasionally use the Hog systems to blow something up with Mav, but generally prefer the experience of flying to fighting. So not exactly an experienced dogfighter.

 

I'm ok taking off and landing ect, but I have a mission set up where I have 2x 109s overflying the base just as I'm taking off, so nose down, gear up to gain speed.

 

The 109s turn and follow and I can hold them off indefinitely if I keep my speed up around the 300mph mark, maybe dropping to 200 - 250 if I am going into the scissors if one of them looks to be getting into a firing position and I break into him. I cannot keep up the scissors long as energy bleeds away rapidly and the oil temp starts rising. Then I have to go to right back down to treetop height where the AI seems reluctant to follow

 

Trouble is, no matter what I do, I cannot turn the defensive into the offensive, I just do not seem to be able to find the energy to go high, nor be able to out turn them. Indeed if I allow a max rate turn to last more than maybe 270 degrees, I lose a lot of energy and the wingman sets my engine alight.

 

My throttle and prop are usually around to 50" and 2750rpm mark, but I tend to keep the throttle and pitch "square" when adjusting the levers, so throttle up, pitch increases, so 60" = 3000rpm, of course the engine tends to go bang and stop if i keep it in that range too long.

 

I have the fancy rinky dink gunsight set up on gyro, but I have never managed to get it over a target.

 

Any tips on how to turn the tables?


Edited by Tinkickef

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why not make a mission where you are at their base just as they take off? and lower AI skill level also as razo+r said. also open rad flaps more manually when they go up

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Try flying against the Dora for awhile. Currently, the AI in DCS are UFOs. No energy bleed, not affected by G, aircraft trimmed perfectly at all times, constantly @ max power with no overheat.

 

This is said to be under review and may change.

 

As it stands, the Dora is much easier to kill in the P-51 right now, I would let the 109 alone until the AI gets calibrated. Otherwise it's mostly an exercise in frustration and even if you do succeed against them there is nothing really to learn except how to overcome a completely overmodeled myth.

 

BTW- "Rinky dink" K14 sight is actually very accurately modeled and if you use it properly it will result in a quick kill almost every time.

 

S!

 

PS- A couple more things- are you flying with a wingman? If you are alone, the AI will concentrate 100% on you, greatly reducing your chances. A wingman will occupy at least some of their attention and give you more opportunites to get nose position on them.

 

Also- Dont dive after them if you can resist the temptation. The AI will almost always go into a steep dive to lower altitudes, then black you out with impossible G pullouts. The P-51 shines at the higher altitudes, especially against the 190. Keep tally on them and resume your ACM when they attempt to regain altitude.


Edited by chris455

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Remembering Arlie "Jack" Campbell, US Army Air Forces, WWII. Well done dad, rest in peace.

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As already mentioned, lower the AI skill level, and get a wingman. If you're 1 against 2, then while you're focused on one 109, his wingman will come up behind and knock you. That's actually a tactic, but I can't remember what it's called.

Use the Instant Action. It sets up you up at a relatively high altitude, and with a wingman (who is stupid af, but is very accurate with gun skills, so as soon as you click "Fly" tell him to engage targets) and two low skilled 109s.

When making hard turns, put your flaps down by one increment at 250MPH, and two increments at 200MPH.

Use that rudder! Using rudder to increase your roll rate, and counter your stall when turning is very helpful!

Keep your speed up! You turn better than 109s when at higher speeds, which is why you can turn with them for a short time, until you bleed your speed. This short window of opportunity is why you must become very skillful with your gunsight, and deflection shooting in general. Assuming that the 109 already knows you're there, it is better to aim too far in front than too far behind. If you're pulling a surprise, I'd say the polar opposite of that until he sees you, defacates in his seat, and pulls up or turns.

Some people like to use the fixed sight, others like the gyro. I have found the most success with having both. You can also declutter the gunsight with the little lever on the left of it.

Defuel when in multiplayer. By default, you are given 68%, which is the full capacity of your right and left wing tanks. Defuel to 28%. If you compare a Mustang with 68% and one with 28%, You'll find that you can make turns easier, keep your speed better, higher average speed, and climb better. With 68% the best average climb, and holding 200MPH is my climbs, I can get about 2400ft/m. With 28% however, I can climb an average of 3000ft/m, maybe a just a tad more. Also note that I climb at 50" and 3000RPMs ;)

In multiplayer, 109s can't see very well behind themselves, and the Mustang is fairly quiet compared to the Spitfire, 109 and Dora. This can give you an edge on giving 109s an unpleasant surprise. If you're above a 109, dive down and behind him, and level off directly behind and below him, so at his 6 low. Try to stay low, because the 109 pilot may check his mirror. Once at a good range, open fire and let it rip.

And as always, try to have a wingman, so if you're in multiplayer, hook up with someone, preferably on Teamspeak, if they speak good English or NOT (like I find a lot) it's better than nothing.

And check your 6 every 10 seconds if you can. Have your tail warning radar on! You can see back, but you can't see down under your tail, but your tail warning radar can.

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Thanks guys. You have given me something to think about.

 

I turned the AI down to average and got a wingman. I have managed to down a couple of 109s, but it was probably more luck than management.

 

I am still crap and keeping that gyro sight sight on the enemy is nigh on impossible, I think I am snatching at the trigger because the nose lifts when I fire.

Both my shoot downs were in conjunction with the fixed sight, where I put the pipper well in front of the enemy AC, pulled the trigger and allowed the pipper to walk slowly back. What a waste of ammo.

 

I will try the FW next time..

 

I take it all back, when I said on another thread that I disliked the Stang and thought it glitched, I have to say I had a blast with it this afternoon. Can't understand why it feels so much better with the assists all switched off.

 

Huey only got used for a couple of troop insertion missions and poor Hog and Tiger never got a look in.

 

Time for beer.

 

Thanks again.

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  • 1 month later...
If you're 1 against 2, then while you're focused on one 109, his wingman will come up behind and knock you. That's actually a tactic, but I can't remember what it's called.

 

Drag and Bag.

 

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The P-51 easily out rolls the 109, so you can make a 109 overshoot you by doing rolling maneuvers. My go-to maneuver for making my opponent overshoot is to split S, cut throttle, and do a barrel roll (you can try variations of this maneuver, it works 90% of the time).

 

Also, while in a dogfight, you should always have your RPM's maxed out. Your engine should be able to go at least 5 minutes full throttle and full RPM's without blowing (which is 10x as long as the average dogfight). Make sure to regulate your throttle though! Keep in mind that the faster you fly, the more maneuverable your plane is, but the slower you fly, the tighter your turn radius is. Use your intuition to decide when it's important to fly fast or slow.

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