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Assets for target practice: ground targets, drones, target tugs etc.


twistking
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I would like to see some assets for building practice missions, as i find it weird to shoot manned, russian units in every practice- or test-mission.

 

- f.e. some decommisioned us vehicles of various types as "statics" for us-aggressors

 

- big target markings/bullseyes, or similar assets that would be used for live-firing excercises

 

- drones for aerial targeting or FSATs (full scale aerial target) as aircraft units, if possible with a predefined AI Task, that disables every ai behaviour apart from path following

 

That may sound like a very specific wish, but just think how many times you spend in dcs just learning, practicing or just testing stuff. I think these little additions would really boost the immersion in these scenarios... :smartass:

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My personal wishlist after half a decade with DCS: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=216873

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+1

 

I know there's a mod (or at least was one) for target ranges but really I think they should be in DCS as stock.

 

I'd love to see things like purpose built targets, you mentioned drones and full-scale targets but also things like boat targets, killer tomatoes etc...

 

I'd also like to see options to designate vehicles etc as target objects or better still to have a coalition dedicated to target practice - as of now if BLUFOR wants to use the USAF Aggressors for target practice they must be aligned with REDFOR which isn't realistic in the strictest of senses...

 

Hopefully that makes sense...

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If you want ones for NTTR, then the 476th have you covered:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=181232

 

Direct link:

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=287

 

FWIW, the package used to work fine under 1.5, but at one point it had some issues with clipping when using them in the Black Sea map. They do work in NTTR though.

Could try again in Black Sea, it might be fine now.

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Yep!

 

I would like to see some assets for building practice missions, as i find it weird to shoot manned, russian units in every practice- or test-mission.

 

- f.e. some decommisioned us vehicles of various types as "statics" for us-aggressors

 

- big target markings/bullseyes, or similar assets that would be used for live-firing excercises

 

- drones for aerial targeting or FSATs (full scale aerial target) as aircraft units, if possible with a predefined AI Task, that disables every ai behaviour apart from path following

 

That may sound like a very specific wish, but just think how many times you spend in dcs just learning, practicing or just testing stuff. I think these little additions would really boost the immersion in these scenarios... :smartass:

 

I agree 100%

 

I posted similar some time ago but it was not commented by devs back then:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=174391

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=175524

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This is not the same

 

If you want ones for NTTR, then the 476th have you covered:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=181232

 

Direct link:

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=287

 

FWIW, the package used to work fine under 1.5, but at one point it had some issues with clipping when using them in the Black Sea map. They do work in NTTR though.

Could try again in Black Sea, it might be fine now.

 

This mission is for NTTR but for not really good use for Single Player missions - way too many things to change, most importantly though it still uses current objects and OP was about adding target practice objects and not ready made mission.

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This mission is for NTTR but for not really good use for Single Player missions - way too many things to change, most importantly though it still uses current objects and OP was about adding target practice objects and not ready made mission.

 

Eh?

 

I didn't link to a mission. I linked to the assets pack, which can be placed and used in the ME however you see fit.

 

The thread on this forum also has an example mission, but I didn't link that as you noted, the OP wanted assets to place. It's pretty much exactly what the OP asked for.

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If you want ones for NTTR, then the 476th have you covered...

 

Interesting mod!

I still wish for an official implementation. Besides the obvious reasons for official integration vs modding, i could see official assets to be a bit more generic compared to the very specific effort to realisticely recreate NTTR live firing sites.

I think one or two assets of each kind should be more than enough.

(some generic kill-houses, some over-sized markings/paper-bullseyes and of course and maybe most importantly ground units without the poor terrified crew-men waiting to be bombed...)

Also of course the air-targets (drones, tugs, FSATs) and maybe naval targets as mentioned by lunatic98...

 

To be honest, now with NTTRs imminent arrival on steam/stable, the missing targets assets are what would still hold me back from purchasing NTTR.

While realistic air-to-air-training (without actually firing live missiles at each other) is probably too much to ask atm, some target assets are a sensible request, i hope...

My personal wishlist after half a decade with DCS: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=216873

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- f.e. some decommisioned us vehicles of various types as "statics" for us-aggressors

 

- big target markings/bullseyes, or similar assets that would be used for live-firing excercises

 

- drones for aerial targeting or FSATs (full scale aerial target) as aircraft units, if possible with a predefined AI Task, that disables every ai behaviour apart from path following

Aren't the 1st and 3rd covered by the USAF Aggressors nation? They have all units, including F-4's (to use as QF-4, you can disable their reaction to enemies to simulate a drone) and old tanks like the M60. The last NTTR mission I made featured A-10's doing practice runs on Aggressor M60's parked out in the desert.

 

Large target markings are missing, but we do have things like cargo containers. It would be nice to have more.

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Aren't the 1st and 3rd covered by the USAF Aggressors nation? They have all units, including F-4's (to use as QF-4, you can disable their reaction to enemies to simulate a drone) and old tanks like the M60. The last NTTR mission I made featured A-10's doing practice runs on Aggressor M60's parked out in the desert.

 

Large target markings are missing, but we do have things like cargo containers. It would be nice to have more.

 

Yes but it's still not ideal - we're missing static bombing targets and strafing targets, there is a brilliant mod, but proper implementation, and more true to life targets is all that's missing, found here http://www.476vfightergroup.com/content.php?254-Air-Weapons-Range-Objects.

 

Things like the images found here from the Holbeach Bombing Range - UK http://on-target-aviation.com/holbeach.html would do us well for ground targets. What's missing is a generic bullseye of different sizes placed on the ground for bombing, although these are present in the mod.

 

Now for aerial targets, the F-4E can be used to mimic a QF-4 it's not perfect but it works well, what we're missing though are things like BQM-34, BQM-74, target tugs and powered seaborne targets are also missing.

 

The main problem I have with DCS and target practice is that the 'nation' designated as target practice, the USAF Aggressors has to be aligned with one of the 2 coalitions, BLUFOR and REDFOR this means it's impossible to structure a mission using USAF Aggressors for both coalitions. Firstly I'd like to see this:https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=161289, secondly instead of having USAF Aggressors acting as a separate nation, just have a checkbox for each unit to designate it as a target for target practice. So let's say I spawn 2 BLUFOR units, both USA, one of them is going to be a target, one of them will be the unit using the first as target practice, they both belong to the same coalition and the same nation, only the target practice unit follow the waypoints defined by the player/mission editor and control how the unit behaves to threats, just like as we can now. What also needs to happen is an update to the scoring system so we can accommodate target practice units that can be aligned to the same nation and coalition but when a BLUFOR unit kills a BLUFOR target unit it doesn't count as friendly fire. Maybe an idea is to have a separate scoring system for target practice.

 

It's kinda difficult to explain all of it but it's just an idea.


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV-2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

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  • 11 months later...

 

Now for aerial targets, the F-4E can be used to mimic a QF-4 it's not perfect but it works perfectly well, what we're missing though are things like BQM-34, BQM-74, target tugs and powered seaborne targets are also missing.

 

 

 

 

I like this idea. I was just thinking that I would like the BQM-34A as a target, to practice using airborne radar and GCI on a target that doesn't try to avoid being shot at. Even when you tell an AI aircraft to not react to threats, it still seems to do it. I searched for the BQM-34 and found this thread. I think I'm right with you on this idea. The BQM-34A is pretty basic, not terribly laden with details...no landing gear, just a large parachute for recovery. No cockpit or instruments to construct. Should be comparatively simple to make. The real ones are either air launched by a DC-130 Hercules or ground launched (MQM-34) using a RATO motor. But that doesn't have to be simulated. Just have it begin at a fly over point. It doesn't even have to exactly match the performance or range of the real BQM-34A. But it would be nice if it got close to it.

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476th should definitely be added to base game as it is.

 

But for the OP - you tick the "destroyed" box on a static for targets, that's what you see on military ranges, tanks that are like swiss cheese.

 

 

For targets, like bullseyes, there are plenty in NTTR if you look at the ranges.

 

 

The reason generic bullseyes aren't added is because the base game cannot cope with ground alignment like a texture painted on the ground, that's a simulation limitation that bugs the hell out of me. It's designed to place and sit a box shaped object so it's level.... like a house. A long thin thing does not deform to the ground contour so it may float when placed. A ground target is certainly the type of object that will clip the terrain and look bad hence they most likely haven't included it since it looks terrible. They don't even like their own farps. Anything broad and flat with a low height doesn't work well in the game.

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Outside of the 476th targets, which is great, I also use F-4Es with QF-4 liveries like someone above mentioned, and for ground targets I use static vehicles. They react when hit, so you know when you've actually hit them. I also frequently use a combination of static SAM launchers with live SAM emitters, so you get RWR indications but nothing can launch on you.

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But for the OP - you tick the "destroyed" box on a static for targets, that's what you see on military ranges, tanks that are like swiss cheese.

The "destroyed" checkbox is a good idea. Won't give you nice feedback on hit, but still soemthing to try!

For targets, like bullseyes, there are plenty in NTTR if you look at the ranges.

Could you give me a hint on where to look for those bullseyes on NNTR? I did notice many different ground markings, but they were part of the main terrain texture and therefore very faint and blurry. Do you refer to those, or are there better ones?

A ground target is certainly the type of object that will clip the terrain and look bad hence they most likely haven't included it since it looks terrible.

I've seen some real life footage of targets, that are basically huge colored canvasses that are elevated over the ground on poles. That is, i would imagine, to be able to change the angle of the targets.

These kind of targets would definitely not have the clipping problem in dcs.

 

[...] for ground targets I use static vehicles. They react when hit, so you know when you've actually hit them.

Alternatively you can use "real" units and deactivate ai behaivour individually. However i would like to see an option checkbox to hide the pilot/driver/crew of vehicles.

Maybe i'm a little bit picky here, but it really bothers me, to have poor crewmen on my targets (definitely visible on the targeting pod, or obviously when you skip through units with F5)

Also hiding the crew should be no big deal programming wise, because i'm sure, that pilots and crew are already some kind of proxy-model (to save on ram etc.)

I also frequently use a combination of static SAM launchers with live SAM emitters, so you get RWR indications but nothing can launch on you.

Neat idea!

My personal wishlist after half a decade with DCS: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=216873

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