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Where are we right now?


stratman59
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I'm just thinking of returning to DCS after about an 8 or 9 year absence, last time I had the AC-10 Warthog and flaming cliffs. I lost interest in jets and helicopters instead transferring my interests solely to WW11 aircraft. AS DCS didn't cater for that at the time I went to IL-2.

I'm now looking at coming back and would like to buy several of the WW11 planes along with the Normandy map and asset pack.

The thing is I now play almost entirely in VR (anyone who have experienced it will know you can never go back to 2d). Reading through the forums I get an impression that the developers may have pushed this era of the catalog to one side and any further development dropped?

 

My questions before laying down the money are as follows.

 

1, Will the Ai be made workable, by that, I mean following the same flight model parameters as the human player?

 

2. Can anyone who plays in VR tell me how the Normandy map performs, my spec below.

 

3. Can I make my own single player user missions, for instance, create a convoy of trucks (using assets pack) running along a certain route as with flaming cliffs?

 

4. Will the new damage model be released sometime soon? I know...how long is a piece of string?

 

5. Supose I had the Spitfire, can I fly against Ai flying German aircraft if I don't own those planes?

 

I'd love to lay some money down and I'm willing to be patient but only if there is a definite commitment from DCS to advancing this era of flight sims.

 

My Specs Intel i7 7700K, Asus Z270-p MB, 16 gig DDR 4 Ram, MSI GTX1080 plus GPU.


Edited by stratman59
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Hey!

I think you will be amazed how much has changed in the last 8 - 9 years :) as to your questions:

 

As 1) Yes, they are working on it. AI will soon get blackouts / redouts and will have the same limitations as players.

 

2) You will be fine, I have lower specs and have no problems with the Rift

 

3) Yes

 

4) Also in the works, there is a major overhaul coming.

 

Cheers,

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5) yes, You don't need the module to fly against or with either in SP or MP.

The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance.

"Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.."

 

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2. I think with your card you should be ok. I have a gtx 970 and it struggles a little with the Spitfire in Normandy in VR yet with the Mustang the FPS are good. I need to upgrade.

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I love DCS WWII stuff and it look like Eagle Dynamics is committed and this era will be awesome.

 

Anyhow, please consider that DCS Normandy and the Spit are still alpha state.

You might get luck and everything runs nicely, or you might get unlucky, it does not run smoothly and you end up just being frustrated.

 

Where are we right now? I think on the right path, but there is still a long way to go.

Exactly how long??? unfortunately ED is not sharing their timescales with us, so can't comment on that. ....and based on my about about 3 years of experience with DCS, I would not trust their timescales if they would be sharing those :P

 

To you questions;

1. I think yes, it will be. Actually, it is not that bad at the moment. Ai is workable now, it still does stupid / impossible stuff, but if you do not set it to the best possible skill level, it actually works kind of okayish atm.

 

2. I have Oculus CV1. I get good fps in Normandy. (see my specs below) I looks beautiful.... ,but everything is unstable with Normandy for me. Works fine for a while and then just bang! stutter and game freeze! No joy. Currently I use VR only in 1.5 version of DCS (old Caucasus map) to fly Helicopters. There is runs fine.

 

3. Yes, DCS mission editor is very powerful. You can create complex missions to your hearts content. It does take considerable effort to learn it, but I have not seen a more powerful mission editor in any other flight sim. :thumbup: for ED for their mission editor. Hope they can also stabilize it. It takes a SW Engineering degree in lua programming to understand some of the errors and crashes you can create with it, but it is good. Also this very forum is good help and there are some very helpful people here if you want to get in to mission editing.

 

4. The new damage model will be release when ED thinks it is ready for a release. I would not bet my money that it would be anytime soon. Hope I'm wrong. It is badly needed. I understood that they will do WWII stuff first. Unfortunately, timescales are not shared with the community.

 

5. Yes, that is no problem.

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I think the new DM will come along with, if not close (just before?) to when the Thunderbolt will be released, because while a WWII craft is WIP, what better time? My opinion.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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Honestly?

 

Come back in six months.

 

1, 2 and 4 are in progress by ED.

6 months, or when the vaunted 2.5 version of DCS:W lands on the release branch, will have probably seen those tackled and put the WWII side of things in a much better state.

It's not in a bad state now and ED have been making strides, but it's not all quite there yet.

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The thing is I now play almost entirely in VR (anyone who have experienced it will know you can never go back to 2d).

 

Oh many will go back to 2D because it is just far superior for many things when compared to VR version:

  • Clarity, you can actually read and see instruments, the ground, air and sea targets and identify them as you should (like see are you aiming a 3x3 APC or a MBT from 1km distance).
  • Possibility use real checklists, maps etc documents while flying
  • Easy time to learn and enjoy the cockpit models and textures as you don't need to feel like 90 year old with bad eyes
  • Enjoy from good framerates

 

 

My Specs Intel i7 7700K, Asus Z270-p MB, 16 gig DDR 4 Ram, MSI GTX1080 plus GPU.

 

I have almost same as my primary system (but with 32GB of RAM) and in VR I get about 22 FPS constantly in 1.5 or 2.1 regardless where I fly or what I fly and almost all set to minimum (except cockpit textures to high for better cockpit clarity etc). In 4K I get above 50 FPS with almost everything maxed out.

 

I would love to use VR as main system but it ain't ready yet. Oculus Rift that has slight edge over HTC Vive, is still leaps behind even Full HD monitor experience for easiness to just read the instruments, operate the cockpit and see around. Totally misses the immersion of sitting in cockpit but having a serious time frame warping in VR and inability to see anything and feeling of wearing diving goggles are just experience killers.

 

Example with Su-25A that I love to fly, I love how I can use the mirrors in 4K to look rear. I don't need to try to look 360 like a owl head turning around, as all I need to do is to see about 190-200 degree, meaning 90 degree to left or right as my eyes can glance then past the wing, rest is just with the mirrors. So after attack runs I can observe the situation via mirrors and plan my next attack. With VR, I need to turn my head way more than 90 degree to see even something at side as the FOV is so narrow that I can't use my eyes. I can't see from mirrors anything if I could even use them without FPS (doesn't really affect it).

 

The performance just ain't there and DCS ain't ready for VR yet. When a hardware setup like i7-7700K, 32GB RAM, 1080Ti can't render VR even at 45FPS and you can't see the cockpit or outside of the cockpit (and yet run every single thing in the gaming industry amazingly or DCS in 4K perfectly fine) it just slaps you on face and pours cold water bucket for wake-up call that DCS needs to wait for 2025 or so before it can run VR well and we have HMD that has at least 210 degree FOV (105 per eye) and 4K per eye then it is there.

 

We don't even have a multi-thread implemented but instead we buy these expensive 8-12 core/thread systems, plenty of RAM and high end GPU and all we get is whole thing locked to single core (yeah yeah, audio is on another thread) that is either hitting 95-100% or then just dancing nicely at 40-50% without any reasons or difference in the performance.

 

I haven't bought the Normandy because what it is said about VR performance compared to NTTR. I am waiting 2.5 to really increase the FPS performance by 4-5x from the current level to see worth to use it in VR.

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2. I have Oculus CV1. I get good fps in Normandy. (see my specs below) I looks beautiful.... ,but everything is unstable with Normandy for me. Works fine for a while and then just bang! stutter and game freeze! No joy. Currently I use VR only in 1.5 version of DCS (old Caucasus map) to fly Helicopters. There is runs fine.

 

Have you checked your CPU and GPU VDROOP when the frame rate drops?

I had the same problem that everything ran perfectly fine (in 4K or VR) and then periodically now and then FPS dropped to like 5-12 for few seconds and then back up without any reason.

 

Reason was that the Intel Load Line Calibration (LLC) was doing stupid things (correct thing) and in load peak the voltage dropped across the system and caused serious performance drop as CPU and GPU were waiting each others to get in sync. Re-adjusting LLC via BIOS to be little less aggressive (letting voltage to peak little higher) removed the VDROOP problem and FPS didn't anymore drop in DCS (and ARMA 3) like it use to (only those two games really suffered from it).

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

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Oh many will go back to 2D because it is just far superior for many things when compared to VR version:

  • Clarity, you can actually read and see instruments, the ground, air and sea targets and identify them as you should (like see are you aiming a 3x3 APC or a MBT from 1km distance).
  • Possibility use real checklists, maps etc documents while flying
  • Easy time to learn and enjoy the cockpit models and textures as you don't need to feel like 90 year old with bad eyes
  • Enjoy from good framerates

 

 

 

 

I have almost same as my primary system (but with 32GB of RAM) and in VR I get about 22 FPS constantly in 1.5 or 2.1 regardless where I fly or what I fly and almost all set to minimum (except cockpit textures to high for better cockpit clarity etc). In 4K I get above 50 FPS with almost everything maxed out.

 

--snip--

 

I haven't bought the Normandy because what it is said about VR performance compared to NTTR. I am waiting 2.5 to really increase the FPS performance by 4-5x from the current level to see worth to use it in VR.

 

 

If you're getting 22 no matter where you fly (with the spec specified), something is horribly wrong with your setup. NTTR is very very smooth. As is Caucuses (last time I checked). Normandy stutters a bit, so it's playable - not enjoyable.

 

But if you're getting 22FPS with Vegas Tour, in A10 for example, or Instant action, A10 in 1.5x, something is horribly wrong with your setup. It's no wonder you hate VR so much. I would too if I got those FPS. Hell, it's not playable at those FPS.

hsb

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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Oh many will go back to 2D because it is just far superior for many things when compared to VR version:.............................x from the current level to see worth to use it in VR.

 

Uh, have you actually tried VR?

 

stratman59 I suggest you try it yourself vs taking this opinion as it seems to go against the grain of most users who actually use VR with DCS such myself and many other actual daily users of VR DCS. As a VR user yourself you know it's huge advantages even with current gen so perhaps this post is not needed.


Edited by Torso
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Uh, have you actually tried VR?

 

stratman59 I suggest you try it yourself vs taking this opinion as itr seems to go against the grain of most users who actually use it. Such myself and many other actual daily users of VR with DCS.

 

 

"Many (go back to 2D)":Fri13 ...You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means! :D

 

In the VR thread, Fri13 has made it very clear that lack of 4K clarity makes VR next to useless for spotting targets, or ID'ing aircraft at 10 miles out (confirmed by F18 pilot that it's doable if you get the perfect angle on the plane and if the plane is distinctive enough on a very clear day).

 

For me, it's like flying in inclement weather. So what if you can't spot a target 10 miles out. The sense of speed, height, 3D sit awareness all make up for the lack of 4K clarity. By a country mile. But this has been hashed out to the n'th degree in the VR thread.

hsb

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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Strange that some people complain about Normandy, and most of them have "nuclear" systems.

I'm on a laptop and I'm running it fine, at 40fps on average with AA on x4.

For guys that don't use VR, what are your graphic settings for Normandy?

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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Strange that some people complain about Normandy, and most of them have "nuclear" systems.

I'm on a laptop and I'm running it fine, at 40fps on average with AA on x4.

For guys that don't use VR, what are your graphic settings for Normandy?

 

 

I'm only talking about VR. VR is very very taxing for DCS right now.

hsb

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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Stratman, you're setting yourself up for quite a bit of frustration if thinking about going into DCS WWII right now, espiecially compared to Il-2, which, being on the market for much longer, obviously matured into quite a complete package and is just head and shoulders above.

 

DCS WWII is getting there, but it's still a massive WIP construction site for the time being. Out of ten planned AI planes, the assets pack contains only one (B-17), which isn't quite finished yet either, similar situation with naval units, much better with ground units, but still... The AI FM and DM improvements are in the works, but it's anyone's guess when they arrive. The map itself is still "rough around the egdes", being slowly optimized and VERY hardware demanding on 2D screen configs, let alone on VRs. Check the 2.0 section of the forum, performance sub-section, plenty of threads with feedback over there. Same for the VR-related threads in Input section.

 

I would get back in 6-months up to 1 year if I were you, when the dust settles somewhat.

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DCS:WWII is not even half finished. It's not something I would recommend at this stage of development, especially if you are used to more matured simulators on the market. As for the stuff that is in the works, like new AI or DM, no one really knows when it will be released, or any details about the implementation for that matter.

 

The "soon" word is a recurring joke here, been that for years.

 

I would get back in 6-months up to 1 year if I were you, when the dust settles somewhat.

 

And that's optimistic.

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But if the pricing isn't going to be a factor (picking it up during a sale), there is no harm in picking it up now (next sale). If one believes that ED will improve it, there's no harm in trying it out now. I would just wait for the next sale.

hsb

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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Uh, have you actually tried VR?

 

 

I own two setups for VR, bought both Rift and Vive for simultaneous testing. Build a new "top-end" setup for myself to test it (you can go and get far better than 7700k, 64GiB and 1080Ti) and VR has same problems on it as two others that flight club (nearest local airport where is as well air museum for aircrafts from WW1 to end of cold war) computers having as well (little lower setups). From about dozen who tested VR in one weekend demoing most decided that 4K displays are far better for learning, training, operating and just having fun (pleasure of flying, as required by using flight instruments etc) to step in/out.

A VR has many advantages (that I keep agreeing like immersion of seeing height and sensing speed) and one is that you can get the setup cornered and not take space. But when everyone are acting like a half-blinded when trying to read instruments or searching the targets or even landmarks (like a large bridges in Caucasus) for navigation purposes, they get foolish experience as they can't see things from kilometer or two further.

 

All the beautiful elements and units that ie. Normandy offers are lost as you can't really enjoy them from low resolution in VR HMD.

 

The point is, even in far lower demanding games many setups has problems in VR performance no matter does people have Titan X or "just 1070" and so on.

So if someone has been away for years and want to come to see what a DCS is now and even in VR, it is better to stay away next 2-3 years and wait that better HMD gets out (much wider FOV, 4K per eye, eye tracking and better CPU's and GPU's to run all that) and just save money by doing so.

 

If we could just fix performance by money in DCS like going to something like i9 (but can't as multi-threading ain't there) and buy two 1080Ti (cant as SLI ain't so great for VR and kills performance even normally as SLI doesn't work better but worse) and someone is willing to put that 1500-2500 for setup to have DCS well running with current HMD tech.... We are still stuck to the simple facts that VR is low resolution, narrow FOV and makes you to search for eye glasses even when you don't own any...

 

Lots of efforts that are put on maps details and aircrafts modeling and texturing are lost or even against you.

 

And I am not talking only about MY PERSONAL OPINION but the consensus that we got in the club (as well everyone testing VR at my place, regardless a variable FPS that sometimes all runs fine and sometimes not at all fine no matter what) about the HMD technology and its impacts to gameplay. That is what these blind VR fanboys just keep missing.

 

But if you are for other VR titles than just DCS, then there are far more reasons to get VR now, as those other titles are optimized for VR and runs anyways far better even in low end rig than DCS itself.

If going to buy a new PC for other games and not VR itself, then not a problem as such system as my primary can run everything that is thrown to it at maximum performance and in 4K even.

 

The current VR technology is like going to drive wearing scuba goggles with +1.0 reading glasses and trying to navigate in your city (not mine analogy, but it was funny and some testers agreed to him).

 

So what are all these fancy "immersion sitting in a cockpit" and "feeling of flight" when everything else can be far worse?

 

And here is the point that fanboys keep missing, I 100% recommend VR but for other titles, but for other reasons in DCS I say "wait" and not "don't never get one".

 

Everyone else is free to throw their money around, I don't care. But when it is your money, your friends money etc and they are wondering what they are going to get if putting that money, it is better be honest with them instead paint the sky with rainbows and flying unicorns that you wouldn't even recognize from a A-10 if your life depended from it.

 

Dropping a $59,99 on DCS module? Okay, many has to negotiate with their wives.

Dropping a way over $1500 (top CPU+GPU+RAM and VR+HOTAS) for good VR setup and it is suddenly "OK" with the performance and challenges it causes... But "the immersion, the feeling....." is again the magic here. Like a fat kid getting to a chocolate factory....

 

 

So for people in doubt, go to local computer or flight clubs and ask about do they have VR. Try, ask their PC specs and spend some time to really look around the cockpits reading labels etc in a unfamiliar aircraft and then in familiar one.

 

If flying just with a 2D display and TrackIR, new maps like Normandy will give excellent content and enjoyment...

 

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I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

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"Many (go back to 2D)":Fri13 ...You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means! :D

 

Many means more than one, couple or few....

So i don't know what it means to you...

 

2D means display without 3D projection capability or VR HMD that has two 2D panels to create a 3D effect. In other words, a typical display.

 

 

 

In the VR thread, Fri13 has made it very clear that lack of 4K clarity makes VR next to useless for spotting targets, or ID'ing aircraft at 10 miles out (confirmed by F18 pilot that it's doable if you get the perfect angle on the plane and if the plane is distinctive enough on a very clear day).

 

Actually I talk about challenge being able spot a ground unit on a flat terrain 0.5nm (1km) from you and being able identify it as a APC or MBT or spotting these vehicles on open field at 1-3km distance so you could even do a gun or rocket attack...

 

But hey, it is all about "immersion" and "sitting in a cockpit"....

 

Yeah, I give up as people like you are just telling how everything is great and amazing and how it is never going back to displays as there are no drawbacks or no requirements to improvements....

 

Maybe I should do a video of a blind test to show how bad VR really is by seating a person totally unfamiliar to aircrafts in a A-10C and then asking them to find switches and buttons by guiding them to general location and showing how they need to lean forward like they have lost their contacts (if wearing any) before "entering to cockpit".

 

And then maybe put them in a second seat in a L-39 and ask them to spit ground and air units in predefined route while flying past them and see how many they can really spot and from what distances.

 

But even when results would be "negative" to VR, showing how much it affects to customers and users, You would be singing how amazingly great and better the VR is and those would be just tiny side effects....

 

But I can guarantee that every single one would have a blast in experience of acrobatics or sight seeing flight....

 

 

 

 

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I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

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DCS:WWII is not even half finished. It's not something I would recommend at this stage of development, especially if you are used to more matured simulators on the market. As for the stuff that is in the works, like new AI or DM, no one really knows when it will be released, or any details about the implementation for that matter.

 

The "soon" word is a recurring joke here, been that for years.

 

 

 

And that's optimistic.

If someone has been away like a 9 years... Then 2-3 years more doesn't hurt.

 

If it takes 3-5 years to make a single aircraft module, then it is logical to say that is time needed to stay away unless wanted to be a pioneer and debug things and invest money and time to "use these", instead getting a seat in a set table when things are more ready.

 

This is the problem in DCS that we don't know schedule even in a calendar year and closer we get the releases, less we know until it suddenly is out or just about.

 

For some 2-3 years is nothing, but it reminds me from centuries ago how royal families made orders to buy a Chinese dinner set and needed to wait a 15 years to get order made and delivered.... Or how a get something from India to UK lasted couple years as ships traveled there and back...

 

 

 

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S.

i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K.

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Have you checked your CPU and GPU VDROOP when the frame rate drops?

I had the same problem that everything ran perfectly fine (in 4K or VR) and then periodically now and then FPS dropped to like 5-12 for few seconds and then back up without any reason.

 

Reason was that the Intel Load Line Calibration (LLC) was doing stupid things (correct thing) and in load peak the voltage dropped across the system and caused serious performance drop as CPU and GPU were waiting each others to get in sync. Re-adjusting LLC via BIOS to be little less aggressive (letting voltage to peak little higher) removed the VDROOP problem and FPS didn't anymore drop in DCS (and ARMA 3) like it use to (only those two games really suffered from it).

 

Thanks for the tip. I'll have to go back and double check that.

I did check with HWInfo64 logging all the sensors in my system when fps drops or game just completely freezes... and did not see any voltage drops, but that was few weeks back and I did not specifically pay attention LLC. Will check again.

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To stratman59; I understood from your OP, that you already have a quite capable system and you already have VR.

 

Perhaps you should download DCS World 1.5 and try the TF-51? the trainer version of P-51 D.

It is all free. No need to pay for anything yet. You can try it out and evaluate the experience yourself before deciding to purchase Normandy, WWII assets pack and the Spitfire you are thinking about.

This would also give you time to wait for special offers on Normandy and the Spit in the DCS Shop.

 

Just keep in mind that DSC World 2, Normandy map and Spit are still in alpha state and does not run as smooth as DCS World 1.5.

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Fantastic response, thanks.

 

One thing I do remember from the old Flaming Cliffs days is how great the community is on DCS.

Great replies from all and very much appreciated here.

 

I think VR is very much down to personal taste, there is no 'one is better' than the other.

For me, and I emphasize 'for me' I can no longer enjoy flying on a flat screen. It's like the difference between watching a ball game or going out and playing, some like to watch, some like to play! As for waiting for the next gen of VR then I can't see major advances in the near future, the technology and processing power just doesn't exist as yet.

 

The IL-2 Kuban map looks stunning in VR and plays as smooth as butter, and for me, the VR (Rift) takes me from playing a 'game' to the feeling of almost being there. I do practice using my monitor but often I strap on the Rift for a quick game and end up still being there at 3 in morning, totally in the moment and absorbed.

 

As for spotting enemies then I feel that the Rift is probably fairly realistic, sat in a WWII fighter looking through a canopy probably with oil, dust, cloud cover and light refraction I doubt you'd have spotted a 109 from 10 miles away, and you even have the goggle face just like real.

 

It is astonishing how some say the experience with DCS is fine and others say it's a stutter fest. I'm an older guy and I'm not going to start whining if everything is less than perfect, I know what an 'Alpha' stage means.

The only way to go is to try it myself. it's not like $110 is going to see me on the street. If I buy in the next few weeks then it's there and I've lost nothing and if it takes the devs 6 months or a year then so be it. I still have IL-2 which is 'as sweet as' right out of the box all be it without the DCS mission creator which I remember being fantastic. From what I've read, by the time I've learned to get the Spitfire in the air then the game will probably be all fixed up in any case!

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Many means more than one, couple or few....

So i don't know what it means to you...

 

2D means display without 3D projection capability or VR HMD that has two 2D panels to create a 3D effect. In other words, a typical display.

 

 

 

 

 

Actually I talk about challenge being able spot a ground unit on a flat terrain 0.5nm (1km) from you and being able identify it as a APC or MBT or spotting these vehicles on open field at 1-3km distance so you could even do a gun or rocket attack...

 

But hey, it is all about "immersion" and "sitting in a cockpit"....

 

Yeah, I give up as people like you are just telling how everything is great and amazing and how it is never going back to displays as there are no drawbacks or no requirements to improvements....

 

Maybe I should do a video of a blind test to show how bad VR really is by seating a person totally unfamiliar to aircrafts in a A-10C and then asking them to find switches and buttons by guiding them to general location and showing how they need to lean forward like they have lost their contacts (if wearing any) before "entering to cockpit".

 

And then maybe put them in a second seat in a L-39 and ask them to spit ground and air units in predefined route while flying past them and see how many they can really spot and from what distances.

 

But even when results would be "negative" to VR, showing how much it affects to customers and users, You would be singing how amazingly great and better the VR is and those would be just tiny side effects....

 

But I can guarantee that every single one would have a blast in experience of acrobatics or sight seeing flight....

 

 

 

 

--

I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

 

Oh come on Fri13. You're better than that. We're resorting to fanboy now? The fact of the matter is, you are right about not having 4K clarity. But you simply chalk up immersion as sitting in the cockpit.

 

For me, it's about flying better. it's about having better 3D spatial awareness. It's about being able to see the SAM and fly the plane in relation to the SAM while maintaining 3D awareness. It's about being able to navigate better using terrain. It's about flying better in formation. It's about having sense of speed. Having sense of altitude. It's about landing where I want to land in the Huey. It's about EVERY aspect of flying that's better in VR *EXCEPT* for clarity of picking out ground targets with 4K clarity. But you continue to spout "you can't pick out ground targets so it's worthless" That to me is throwing the baby out with the bath water. And having 3D spatial awareness much more than a sight seeing flight. Also, the one thing VR does for me is that I don't *mind* the free flights. You know why? Because the joy of flight is EXPERIENCED when using VR.

 

And it's CLEAR that your context of "many" is to meant to convey that lot of people go back to 2D. The word you want to use is "few" go back to 2D. Few means more than one, but not the vast majority.

 

So spare me the tired fanboy argument. I don't work for Oculus. For me, CV1 is the most transformative technology to that's available to DCS users.

 

You say it's only good for looking around the cockpit, I say it gives you better experience sans picking out the one vehicle. We'll never agree so let's agree to disagree.

 

And here's something for you. I was in Infantry officer in real life. Every time we stopped while being mechanized, we camo up. Why? So you can't spot me while flying. You can use thermal, you can use TGPs, but I make it so that you can't pick me out from the environment using your eyeballs. So if you think you should be able to pick out a target with 4K clarity, that's not reality (assuming gound pounders camo up).

 

And when you use your car radio, do you stop and look for the dial? How is it that you can type w/o looking at the keyboard, w/o being able to read the letters on the keyboard, yet you can type? Because you get muscle memory and know where the switches are.

 

And you also said you get 22FPS everywhere. And I'm telling you that your system is screwed up. In Normandy 30-40FPS sure. But in NTTR, if you're getting 22FPS, it's fubared.

 

I'm just tired of you point out the one thing and saying "nothing else matters" But we had these tireless discussions, so I'll stop now. I stopped in the other thread, and I'll stop here.

 

Enjoy your 4K monitors and racking up kills with 4K clarity. I'll enjoy the feeling of flying and call it even.


Edited by hansangb

hsb

HW Spec in Spoiler

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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