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Throttletek F-18 throttle


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Agreed, the only thing worth picking up from Thrustmaster anymore will probably be the F/A-18 grip whenever it comes out.

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

I finally received the throttle today, and first impressions are good.

 

With the exception of the side covers, the whole thing is aluminium.

 

The finger lifts for the idle/off and AB detent can be a little stiff, particularly if not raised vertically upwards, but some of this is due to where I have the throttle mounted (more on this later). Throttle lever movement is nice and smooth; there is a little more resistance when in AB range due to pressure from the finger lifts. This is adjustable with the friction lever.

 

Buttons/switches are good. The mini stick is much nicer than the warthog's, but it has a built in dead zone. This isn't a problem for me, but will take a little getting used to.

 

None of the three way switches for radio, counter measures and speed brake return to centre under any circumstance. Not a big issue, but I'm not sure if this is 100% accurate.

 

This throttle is advertised as being a scale replica, and I expect that is absolutely true (certainly looks the part when referencing photos of the real thing). Throttle lever travel from one end to the other is around 200mm (against approximately 150mm for the warthog). This long travel helps to make for more accurate control. As the lever pivot is at the bottom of the base, there is very little lever rotation too, which is nice. Again, this is certainly a contrast against the warthog.

 

Now for some downsides:

 

First, a minor point for anyone who does buy, it didn't come with the USB lead. Not a huge issue, and thankfully I had one spare.

 

The size and shape of this thing. No way is it going on your desk, it has to be part of a custom made cockpit of some sort. Holes in the base for mounting are not standard, but can be added. I would consider them essential, so ask for them if you take the plunge. I'm going to have to change my setup as I've got the throttles mounted too high (making the finger lifts a little awkward to use) and too far back (my arm is hitting my chair when I move the levers to idle).

 

The throttle lever sensors use pots too. I've never had an issue with controllers due to their pots before, but I know they can be a problem down the line if they wear.

 

Lastly and most obviously of course, is the price. After shipping, customs, and paypal fees the grand total was around $1300. You can pay extra (~$1900) for 'transducer' based sensors, 'as per the real aircraft'. I'm not sure exactly what these are, but I couldn't justify that much more so I never asked for more info!

 

So for a conclusion:

 

I'll try to review objectively first, then add some of my personal perspective. It seems to me like a good replica, and mechanically in particular it's very well done, with the finger lifts being about the only slight weak point. The use of pots may put some off and I understand that. This might be an area where long term use will be required to provide a complete picture of this product. It is expensive no doubt, but keep in mind that they are not mass produced. They are built to order, out of metal; with that in mind, I'm certainly not looking at it puzzled as to why it cost so much.

 

Slightly more subjectively, I'm a big fan of the F/A-18C and really wanted a HOTAS to go with the upcoming ED module; if this throttle was for any other plane I wouldn't have got it. I can't really put a finger on it, but this certainly factored into my decision to part with such a large sum of money. Sure I could have waited to see what thrustmaster comes up with, but it's my view that if you're into simming you should try to buy the best peripherals you can afford, and this was always going to be much better. Is it ~$1000 better? I think this is down to personal opinion, and hopefully this might help others make that decision.

 

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I am sorry, for that price it is lacking too many things. Hall sensors for a big one and a mounting system for a smaller one.

 

The price bothers me far less than the shortcomings.

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Great review, glad you like it. This is still #1 on my list of throttles, just waiting to see what VKB will announce whenever they get around to announcing their throttle.

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Custom Throttletek F/A-18C Throttle w/ Hall Sensors + Otto switches | Slaw Device RX Viper Pedals w/ Damper | VPC T-50 Base + 15cm Black Sahaj Extension + TM Hornet or Warthog Grip | Super Warthog Wheel Stand Pro | Steelcase Leap V2 + JetSeat SE

 

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Too much clunk for a grand. Thanks for sharing the info.

 

 

 

Probably true, at least for $700 the Slaw pedals I've ordered are top notch quality with the highest grade sensors and aircraft metals...

 

Still, this throttle design is so attractive to me. I am waiting for the VKB to announce their throttle but I'm 95% it will be based on Redfor jets...so not really a great fit for my NATO Western bias.

 

 

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VR Cockpit (link):

Custom Throttletek F/A-18C Throttle w/ Hall Sensors + Otto switches | Slaw Device RX Viper Pedals w/ Damper | VPC T-50 Base + 15cm Black Sahaj Extension + TM Hornet or Warthog Grip | Super Warthog Wheel Stand Pro | Steelcase Leap V2 + JetSeat SE

 

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  • 6 months later...

I'm seriously considering purchasing it. I've had a back-and-forth over email today with Throttletek, and to answer a question some have probably been thinking: The comm switch is only two-way and would not support the MIDS A / MIDS B functions (that aren't working now, but will be in the future).

 

 

 

Throttletek can substitute a four-way switch (though given the price, it is most likely something specialized like the F-16 ICP's four-way DCS switch).

 

 

 

The force sensors for the TDC are no longer available (apparently that was a small run).

 

 

Lead time is 10 weeks, and as stated requires 50% up front. In my opinion, this actually may make it more affordable since you don't have to drop the whole price at once. This wouldn't be my first rodeo with spending a lot at once on simming, though, as I have both the FSSB R2 and R3, and an Obutto.

 

 

 

Any more thoughts, Flamin Squirrel?

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Sure.

 

Since my initial review I remounted it a much more suitable position. This eliminated the difficulty with the finger lifts, making the throttle movement through the whole range a pleasure.

 

The pivot point is right at the bottom of the base, which gives the throttle movement much more of a linear feel, as opposed to the rotational feel that you get from the warthog (I hope that makes sense); the travel is ~200mm, too which seems enormous in comparison. This allows fine throttle control, but it does mean you have to mount it just right to find it comfortable to move the throttles from full forward to full aft.

 

As previously mentioned, none of the 3way switches for the speedbrake, countermeasures or radio return to centre. I'm almost certain this is not how the real thing is, and this has turned out to be my biggest irritation (if anyone thinks they can help with this please let me know).

 

If I had to come up with a phrase to summarise my thoughts about the throttle, it would be 'quality prototype'. The general function is really good, but it just lacks some of the details I would want to see in a retail product.

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They told me the countermeasures switch is spring-loaded but the speedbrake is not. I didn't ask about the comm switch being spring-loaded.

 

 

 

I'm starting to think waiting to see what TM has in store may be the best course of action.

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Controls: RS F16SGRH CE, RS F18CGRH, VPC T-50CM2, VFX, WarBRD (Grips); VPC T-50CM2, RS FSSB R3L (Bases); Winwing F/A-18C, VPC T-50CM3, VPC T-50CM, TM Warthog, Cougar (Throttles); VPC ACE2 (Rudders)

 

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As previously mentioned, none of the 3way switches for the speedbrake, countermeasures or radio return to centre. I'm almost certain this is not how the real thing is, and this has turned out to be my biggest irritation (if anyone thinks they can help with this please let me know).

 

For the speedbrake it's half correct. The way it works in most western aircraft, is that "open" position returns to centre, but "stow" position does not. The middle position is "keep the airbrake where it is". This way you can open airbrake partially and it won't open accidentally, while to stow the airbrake you can flip the switch forward and just forget about it, it will travel all the way. Unless you move the switch to neutral before it stows completely. Actually I remember reading in the real manual that the forward "stow" position is the one to be used in flight, as the airbrake may open slightly by itself with the switch in "neutral" position.

 

For the countermeasures, IIRC it's correct. It should release the countermeasures (or have consent for release in the full auto mode), as long as the switch is in forward or aft, according to program.

 

Radio switch I guess should return to centre, I think all radio switches in these aircraft are of push-to-talk type.


Edited by some1

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For the speedbrake it's half correct. The way it works in most western aircraft, is that "open" position returns to centre, but "stow" position does not. The middle position is "keep the airbrake where it is". This way you can open airbrake partially and it won't open accidentally, while to stow the airbrake you can flip the switch forward and just forget about it, it will travel all the way. Unless you move the switch to neutral before it stows completely. Actually I remember reading in the real manual that the forward "stow" position is the one to be used in flight, as the airbrake may open slightly by itself with the switch in "neutral" position.

 

For the countermeasures, IIRC it's correct. It should release the countermeasures (or have consent for release in the full auto mode), as long as the switch is in forward or aft, according to program.

 

Radio switch I guess should return to centre, I think all radio switches in these aircraft are of push-to-talk type.

 

I'm aware of the speedbrake operation, I'm just not bothering to list which exact positions are supposed to be spring loaded! At least 2 of the 3 3way switches should have at least one spring but don't, and that's my point.

 

The only one I'm not sure about is countermeasures, but I can't see why it wouldn't be too (happy to have this confirmed either way).

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I am interested in this kind of throttle... very authentic. But if I am going to pay $1,000, I expect it to be close to a perfect replica. It looks like the levers are at least 50% too long, maybe closer to 100%. I have looked at several cockpit photos of real F/A-18s. The real levers seem to be a little longer than on some other aircraft, but not nearly as tall as I see in the photos here. That is assuming that the throttle is meant to be mounted with the top of the enclosure flush with the rest of the left console.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Throttletek F-18 throttle

 

I just placed my order for a custom Throttletek F/A-18C throttle, built with Hall sensors (instead of the standard Pots that usually come with this throttle). This is a considered a custom order.

 

 

 

In addition, to eliminate any risk of the buttons not functioning as I want them to, I have purchased all of the switches and buttons to be placed in to the throttle during it's construction myself. I elected to go with all authentic Otto brand mil-spec switches, the same brand as the ones used in the real throttles. Roberto will be provided the TDC and antenna elevation wheel for me as I did not source those myself.

 

 

 

Lastly, I have also supplied a Honeywell MS27719-21-1 On-Off-On 3-way toggle switch for the Master Exterior Lights toggle on the outboard side of the throttle.

 

 

 

The build is expected to be ready to ship approx. mid-October.

 

 

 

Pictures of the mapping with parts listed:

 

a0e98f912eb30996d8a0692b3c53f897.pnga574cf3ba2a4f3908a4156e56def6486.png938a36cf5bbb2ead5b9b67f2641adfc4.png

VR Cockpit (link):

Custom Throttletek F/A-18C Throttle w/ Hall Sensors + Otto switches | Slaw Device RX Viper Pedals w/ Damper | VPC T-50 Base + 15cm Black Sahaj Extension + TM Hornet or Warthog Grip | Super Warthog Wheel Stand Pro | Steelcase Leap V2 + JetSeat SE

 

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I am interested in this kind of throttle... very authentic. But if I am going to pay $1,000, I expect it to be close to a perfect replica. It looks like the levers are at least 50% too long, maybe closer to 100%. I have looked at several cockpit photos of real F/A-18s. The real levers seem to be a little longer than on some other aircraft, but not nearly as tall as I see in the photos here. That is assuming that the throttle is meant to be mounted with the top of the enclosure flush with the rest of the left console.

 

It's vertical position/size looks to be accurate IMO (see attached photo from the Legacy Hornet cockpit), the actual part that your fingers rest on is just thinner than what is in the real thing. I am going to ask Roberto about seeing if I can have this made a bit wider...good call out.

PA203547.thumb.JPG.1710adb52d3c88b18926433302259bcc.JPG


Edited by =Buckeye=

VR Cockpit (link):

Custom Throttletek F/A-18C Throttle w/ Hall Sensors + Otto switches | Slaw Device RX Viper Pedals w/ Damper | VPC T-50 Base + 15cm Black Sahaj Extension + TM Hornet or Warthog Grip | Super Warthog Wheel Stand Pro | Steelcase Leap V2 + JetSeat SE

 

VR Rig:

Pimax 5K+ | ASUS ROG Strix 1080Ti | Intel i7-9700K | Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master | Corsair H115i RGB Platinum | 32GB Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB 3200 | Dell U3415W Curved 3440x1440

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Buckeye, how much extra is he going to charge you for the custom modifications?

 

It it tough to pin down an exact amount as there are both puts and takes on the cost. On one hand I am adding customization (increasing his build COGS) and on the other I am providing my own materials for the majority of the switches (reducing COGS).

 

Here is what I can tell you, the stock price for the base model with pots is $950. My base price is $1000 (plus it is written in that I will provide said switches via mail). DHL Shipping is still the same at $150 and there is still the same $50 Paypal fee charge. So totaled up mine is $1200 versus the regular $1150...

 

But I am sending him > $300 worth of Otto switches (my choice, because I want very high quality parts with great feel), so all in I am looking to be just a hair north of $1500 :thumbup:

 

If Roberto was providing all of the materials (switches and toggle) himself, I don't know what the price would be as I never asked...but I assume there would be a markup over the $1200 total I've listed above.

VR Cockpit (link):

Custom Throttletek F/A-18C Throttle w/ Hall Sensors + Otto switches | Slaw Device RX Viper Pedals w/ Damper | VPC T-50 Base + 15cm Black Sahaj Extension + TM Hornet or Warthog Grip | Super Warthog Wheel Stand Pro | Steelcase Leap V2 + JetSeat SE

 

VR Rig:

Pimax 5K+ | ASUS ROG Strix 1080Ti | Intel i7-9700K | Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master | Corsair H115i RGB Platinum | 32GB Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB 3200 | Dell U3415W Curved 3440x1440

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Watching this thread with interest as I am also like Buckeye looking for the accurate simulation.

 

Still a bit concerned that the wires are loose as such, for the price it should be all machined into a channel and secured or actually built in completely.

 

FlyingSpanner

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It's vertical position/size looks to be accurate IMO (see attached photo from the Legacy Hornet cockpit), the actual part that your fingers rest on is just thinner than what is in the real thing. I am going to ask Roberto about seeing if I can have this made a bit wider...good call out.

 

It is hard to judge from a top down angle. There are few good shots with a low enough angle to see the elevation of the grips above the panel. But the ones I can find show the panel to be sloped. So the smaller, outboard grip to the left is fairly close to the panel when in the idle position. While the inner, larger grip is well above the panel at the inside edge. Hard to say for sure with the available real life photos, but it still looks a bit too high. The size of the grips would definitely affect the appearance versus the actual height.

 

To eliminate camera lens distortion, I need to go sit in a real cockpit in person... preferably with a movable throttle so I can judge the radius of the movement arc and see how the height varies throughout the throttle range.

 

fa18cockpit.jpg

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Throttletek F-18 throttle

 

Watching this thread with interest as I am also like Buckeye looking for the accurate simulation.

 

Still a bit concerned that the wires are loose as such, for the price it should be all machined into a channel and secured or actually built in completely.

 

FlyingSpanner

 

 

Wouldn’t be too concerned, that’s how it is in the real thing too...just wrapped in nylon.

 

c8663d72b8017cdd5dbb16f8a75dc33c.jpg

 

67df88bca05cfa455951604fbcfdaddc.jpg

 

It is hard to judge from a top down angle. There are few good shots with a low enough angle to see the elevation of the grips above the panel. But the ones I can find show the panel to be sloped. So the smaller, outboard grip to the left is fairly close to the panel when in the idle position. While the inner, larger grip is well above the panel at the inside edge. Hard to say for sure with the available real life photos, but it still looks a bit too high. The size of the grips would definitely affect the appearance versus the actual height.

 

 

 

To eliminate camera lens distortion, I need to go sit in a real cockpit in person... preferably with a movable throttle so I can judge the radius of the movement arc and see how the height varies throughout the throttle range.

 

 

 

f3609d184d32b3a63277becc35c3fb1b.jpg

 

f6dfec6f08288f073f5df40c3a6bd2c1.jpg

 

36f472017329b8e1baf066bc1fd2f665.jpg

 

7491d271eba2d1eeb58df3d136020951.jpg

 

4d875025cda20e81213d2259dd259a4d.jpg

 

3659f5dc1cf609b2724558d0901b2128.jpg

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

VR Cockpit (link):

Custom Throttletek F/A-18C Throttle w/ Hall Sensors + Otto switches | Slaw Device RX Viper Pedals w/ Damper | VPC T-50 Base + 15cm Black Sahaj Extension + TM Hornet or Warthog Grip | Super Warthog Wheel Stand Pro | Steelcase Leap V2 + JetSeat SE

 

VR Rig:

Pimax 5K+ | ASUS ROG Strix 1080Ti | Intel i7-9700K | Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master | Corsair H115i RGB Platinum | 32GB Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB 3200 | Dell U3415W Curved 3440x1440

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Hi guys, thought I'd chime in as I have one of these units...and a a few hundred hours in the jet.

 

Overall this product has a lot of potential, but there are numerous issues which I will list below. It seems to be more of a prototype (I hope) and Roberto has accepted my request to send it back to have the issues resolved. Considering the cost, I would expect it to be 99.9% accurate. Note I also paid extra to have the ">80% real switches" fitted; namely the TDC. So, in rough order of most annoying to least...

 

-the TDC is not secure in its mount. The transducer can be rotated with minimal force, which obviously wreaks havoc on axis alignment

-the TDC depress action only works some of the time (not at all currently)...possibly has something to do with the above comment

-pots are used for the throttle axis, which I wouldn't normally care about, but they are not symmetrical, so split throttles are required for the same output (I've tried to calibrate but the issue still stands)

- the wiring from the throttles through the unit is not secure or clear of moving parts. This has the effect of random signal spasms, and consequent throttle bashing from idle-max etc at a rapid pace. Unpredictable, and when I fly the Spit (left for RPM, right for throttle) it is essentially unflyable

- the finger lifts are required to be pulled up to push into afterburner. This is inaccurate and annoying...the real aircraft requires a push through a minor detent..the ONLY time the finger lifts are touched are for engine shutdown. This is obviously a design flaw more than build quality, but must be rectified.

- Comm switch and radar elevation wheel are not spring loaded to center like they should be

- Comm switch is only 3 way (Comm1, OFF, Comm2) and it should be 5way as previously mentioned (Comm1, MidsA, MidsB, Comm2, Off)

- Speedbrake switch is only 2 way, it needs to be 3 way (extend, off, retract)

- Cage/uncage switch should be the same switch as the ATC and RAID/FLIR buttons (it is some random cheap button atm)

 

 

Like I said, I believe this I have more of a prototype, and Roberto has accepted to help fix the issues, so don't pass too much judgement. I actually think it is a beautiful product, just needs to be tweaked. I am also sourcing some genuine switches and hopefully Throttletek agree to modify my unit to make it more accurate. Will keep y'all updated.


Edited by Anonymous User
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Hi guys, thought I'd chime in as I have one of these units...and a a few hundred hours in the jet.

 

Overall this product has a lot of potential, but there are numerous issues which I will list below. It seems to be more of a prototype (I hope) and Roberto has accepted my request to send it back to have the issues resolved. Considering the cost, I would expect it to be 99.9% accurate. Note I also paid extra to have the ">80% real switches" fitted; namely the TDC. So, in rough order of most annoying to least...

 

-the TDC is not secure in its mount. The transducer can be rotated with minimal force, which obviously wreaks havoc on axis alignment

-the TDC depress action only works some of the time (not at all currently)...possibly has something to do with the above comment

-pots are used for the throttle axis, which I wouldn't normally care about, but they are not symmetrical, so split throttles are required for the same output (I've tried to calibrate but the issue still stands)

- the wiring from the throttles through the unit is not secure or clear of moving parts. This has the effect of random signal spasms, and consequent throttle bashing from idle-max etc at a rapid pace. Unpredictable, and when I fly the Spit (left for RPM, right for throttle) it is essentially unflyable

- the finger lifts are required to be pulled up to push into afterburner. This is inaccurate and annoying...the real aircraft requires a push through a minor detent..the ONLY time the finger lifts are touched are for engine shutdown. This is obviously a design flaw more than build quality, but must be rectified.

- Comm switch and radar elevation wheel are not spring loaded to center like they should be

- Comm switch is only 3 way (Comm1, OFF, Comm2) and it should be 5way as previously mentioned (Comm1, MidsA, MidsB, Comm2, Off)

- Speedbrake switch is only 2 way, it needs to be 3 way (extend, off, retract)

- Cage/uncage switch should be the same switch as the ATC and RAID/FLIR buttons (it is some random cheap button atm)

 

 

Like I said, I believe this I have more of a prototype, and Roberto has accepted to help fix the issues, so don't pass too much judgement. I actually think it is a beautiful product, just needs to be tweaked. I am also sourcing some genuine switches and hopefully Throttletek agree to modify my unit to make it more accurate. Will keep y'all updated.

 

When I was putting together my build with Roberto he mentioned that he had improved the design of the throttle by making "Mechanical changes on the afterburner detent instead of having to pull on the engine cutoff handles. (correction of the f18 pilot)", so it looks like that design change has been implemented thanks to you.

 

Regarding the rest of the items (sans the switches, since I have provided my own to Roberto) I will follow up with him to make sure your recommendations/revisions are included in my build. Appreciate you taking the time to make such a detailed posted :thumbup:

 

Also, FWIW buying the real Otto SL (slider) series switches for things like the speedbrake and ECM dispense have a price of >$250 for each switch...not sure what your budget is, but there are other Otto mil-spec switches that don't look exactly the same but should do the trick that can be had for $50-100 instead. The Comms switch (5-way) was the most expensive I had to purchase, and that was ~$160...all others were $60 or less. The Otto P1 push buttons can be found for <$20, usually.


Edited by =Buckeye=

VR Cockpit (link):

Custom Throttletek F/A-18C Throttle w/ Hall Sensors + Otto switches | Slaw Device RX Viper Pedals w/ Damper | VPC T-50 Base + 15cm Black Sahaj Extension + TM Hornet or Warthog Grip | Super Warthog Wheel Stand Pro | Steelcase Leap V2 + JetSeat SE

 

VR Rig:

Pimax 5K+ | ASUS ROG Strix 1080Ti | Intel i7-9700K | Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master | Corsair H115i RGB Platinum | 32GB Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB 3200 | Dell U3415W Curved 3440x1440

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