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Hello a have the cat a g limiter ? In the mirage a have limiter for 6 g's :lol:

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tomcat eats the viper for breakfast :P

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Hello a have the cat a g limiter ? In the mirage a have limiter for 6 g's :lol:

No limiter, just and indicator that pegs to the highest g pulled during the flight. It goes from -4 to 11 if i recall correctly......or was it 12?

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Im man a switch button g limiter to off :)

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tomcat eats the viper for breakfast :P

Lange lebe die Tomcat": Long live the Cat!

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the m2000 has a switch which prevents you from exceeding 6G, and which will trigger an alarm at high AOA. it is meant for A-G load out, or when your fuel tank has still fuel in it.

 

So, i guess the OP is asking if there an optionnal ( or not ) G-limiter for the F-14 when it is heavy loaded.

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If you know the aircraft you can load up with a belly full of AIM-54s, full tank of gas, get up some wicked speed and pull or push for all your worth hoping the airplane stays together. One has not fallen apart in the air due to pilot induced over-G- just landed and stayed in the hangar for quite some time after. An F-14A+ did have a horizontal stab rod fail at above Mach 1.4 (something like the rod failed due to engine heat maybe?) and the horizontal stabs went to full deflection- the aircraft disintegrated with no survivors.

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If you know the aircraft you can load up with a belly full of AIM-54s, full tank of gas, get up some wicked speed and pull or push for all your worth hoping the airplane stays together. One has not fallen apart in the air due to pilot induced over-G- just landed and stayed in the hangar for quite some time after. An F-14A+ did have a horizontal stab rod fail at above Mach 1.4 (something like the rod failed due to engine heat maybe?) and the horizontal stabs went to full deflection- the aircraft disintegrated with no survivors.

 

I wonder if your story is related to the article below? I am a bit confused with what you are trying to express, please forgive me for being a bit slow.

 

I do believe that certain ords/load outs and AC weights have G-limits, but they are instituted by doctrine, not a physical feature installed on the airframe.

 

There is a PDF file in the article below that describes the steps they took to develop safety actions for Rudder Hardover Incidents using the flight sim at PAX River to get it into NATOPs quickly so the fleet wasn't grounded for an extended period of time (first time).

 

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA39359

 

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I wonder if your story is related to the article below? I am a bit confused with what you are trying to express, please forgive me for being a bit slow.

 

I do believe that certain ords/load outs and AC weights have G-limits, but they are instituted by doctrine, not a physical feature installed on the airframe.

 

There is a PDF file in the article below that describes the steps they took to develop safety actions for Rudder Hardover Incidents using the flight sim at PAX River to get it into NATOPs quickly so the fleet wasn't grounded for an extended period of time (first time).

 

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA39359

 

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I know there are airframe and profile G-limit restrictions- but this isn't hard coded into any software in the jet that would prevent an over G condition correct? I'm sure an idiot could break the jet and I've heard of a few that became resident hangar queens after a bit too much age and pull. VF-201s jets at the end of their career where rather twisted making it difficult to close cowlings.

 

I think I remember reading a fully loaded jet with full gas is limited to 5g initially and then that increases as the fuel burns off. NATOPs has a 6.5g limit that doesn't really impact ACM because the jet turns best ~330-360kts and any more G isn't really gonna do anything other than bleed speed and give you a few angles for a few seconds.

The link you gave me said the sight is down for maintenance. The story I'm trying to remember involved one of the initial F-14Bs used for A-G mission testing in the 90s- "thief of Baghdad" jet IIRC. Would be good to freshen up on the facts of the story.

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Dave "Bio" Baranek recounts that at 100% fuel (internal, two bags) the F-14 would be G limited to around 5.5 G's, but as the fuel burned down to around 60% internal, the G limit would go up to 6.5.

 

The Tomcat could realistically handle 7+ consistently, it just wasn't officially rated as such.

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Dave "Bio" Baranek recounts that at 100% fuel (internal, two bags) the F-14 would be G limited to around 5.5 G's, but as the fuel burned down to around 60% internal, the G limit would go up to 6.5.

 

The Tomcat could realistically handle 7+ consistently, it just wasn't officially rated as such.

 

It could handle much more than that, the ultimate load factor being similar to that of the F-15. Infact the initial operational load limit proposed by grumman for carrier operations was 7.5 G's, however as orders were cut short and each airframe then suddenly had to last a lot longer this limit was decreased to 6.5 G's by the Navy itself.

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We've discussed this before and we've set a fairly reasonable number where things start falling apart. (I can't recall the exact number)

Repeated extreme G-Loads will cause it to happen quicker.

 

So you're simulating wear and tear? Like..in a single hop..progressive G related failures?

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Dave "Bio" Baranek recounts that at 100% fuel (internal, two bags) the F-14 would be G limited to around 5.5 G's, but as the fuel burned down to around 60% internal, the G limit would go up to 6.5.

 

The Tomcat could realistically handle 7+ consistently, it just wasn't officially rated as such.

 

You can find plenty of info saying 7.33g was the specified limit originally, dropped to 6.5g for continued operational use.

 

I've also seen it stated a few times that the F-14A was originally advertised as 9g max, although people may be mixing that up the -D.

 

I've also seen the odd comments and such that the test pilots at Grumman were flying the -A at 10.5g without problems, which seems plausible if the standard 1.5x safety factor was used then 7.33g x 1.5 ~= 10.9g. Also correlates with a story about an Iranian pilot pulling 10g iirc.

 

Either way, it's a pretty tough airframe which doesn't have an actual g-limiter, which is going to prove fun when people yank the stick back :)


Edited by Buzzles
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You can find plenty of info saying 7.33g was the specified limit originally, dropped to 6.5g for continued operational use.

 

I've also seen it stated a few times that the F-14A was originally advertised as 9g max, although people may be mixing that up the -D.

 

I've also seen the odd comments and such that the test pilots at Grumman were flying the -A at 10.5g without problems, which seems plausible if the standard 1.5x safety factor was used then 7.33g x 1.5 ~= 10.9g. Also correlates with a story about an Iranian pilot pulling 10g iirc.

 

Either way, it's a pretty tough airframe which doesn't have an actual g-limiter, which is going to prove fun when people yank the stick back :)

 

Oh I know, I was just typing in a hurry.

 

I know a few "hot sticks" in the earlier days of the Tomcat would push the F-14A past 9G's, I believe "Hoser" Satrapa pulled 10.3 and the jet was perfectly fine.

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Grumman bench tested the F-14 to 13 G's without issues, so you can go figure what it would take to break the thing.

 

Ultimate load limit was 13.5 G's, same as for the F-15. Carrier operations however impose a higher safety factor when calculating the operational limit, thus Grumman initially suggested 7.5 G's before future orders were cancelled.


Edited by Hummingbird
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So you're simulating wear and tear? Like..in a single hop..progressive G related failures?

 

Yeah. So, e.g. you might get away with one pull to X G, but doing it another time will not go as well. Obviously there is a hard limit to this too (so pulls above a certain threshold will kill you immediately)

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Yeah. So, e.g. you might get away with one pull to X G, but doing it another time will not go as well. Obviously there is a hard limit to this too (so pulls above a certain threshold will kill you immediately)

 

Outstanding, that's the realism aspect right there!

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...we've set a fairly reasonable number where things start falling apart...

 

That sounds rather arbitrary if you ask me. A bit concerning to say the least.

 

"My RO Hill Billy got a sprained neck out of the deal and was out of the hunt for several days. At very high speeds,, as the bogey is just sweetening his guns solution, roll the a/c 90 degrees to bogeys lift vector, then put on a "MAX",, I Mean "MAX" "G" yank for bout 2 potatoes, then unload and roll 45 degrees back, stabilize, yank a max 'G' in to the vertical. This will spit him out the bottom/ overshoot and usually end up neutral. The vapor ball Monroe Hawk Smith describes was caused by the initial 12.2'G's"

 

 

"At AIM/ACE, 'G' restrictions were not mentioned. "what ever it takes" was the unwritten rule. When the Turkey first hit the street, Mr. & Mrs. Grumman said it was pilot limited. The TACTS range recorded 12.2 g's symmetrical during a Guns 'D' break. The high 'g' hurt Hill Billy's neck and he was was out of the hunt for a few days. We had the brand new Blk 90 Turkey x-rayed, inspected and gone over by a team of Grummanites...... not a lose rivet, zero skin wrinkles, perfect engine mounts, no hyd or fuel leaks; Just a broke RO. NAVAIR kept slapping new 'g' restrictions on the Turkey cause they figured them to last 100yrs. Hell, they would have lasted a hunnert and fifty years with a symmetrical 9.5 'g' guidance doctrine."

 

-Joe Hoser Satrapa

 

 

"In fact the F-14 was tested a lot more rigorously to precisely establish the limits of the airframe, Grumman committing an unprecented number of aircraft to stress testing. The F-14 airframe was stressed over 14 G's on the bench, and later flight tested to 13 G's without incident. Grumman wanted to make sure the thing could last!"

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That sounds rather arbitrary if you ask me. A bit concerning to say the least.

 

"My RO Hill Billy got a sprained neck out of the deal and was out of the hunt for several days. At very high speeds,, as the bogey is just sweetening his guns solution, roll the a/c 90 degrees to bogeys lift vector, then put on a "MAX",, I Mean "MAX" "G" yank for bout 2 potatoes, then unload and roll 45 degrees back, stabilize, yank a max 'G' in to the vertical. This will spit him out the bottom/ overshoot and usually end up neutral. The vapor ball Monroe Hawk Smith describes was caused by the initial 12.2'G's"

 

 

"At AIM/ACE, 'G' restrictions were not mentioned. "what ever it takes" was the unwritten rule. When the Turkey first hit the street, Mr. & Mrs. Grumman said it was pilot limited. The TACTS range recorded 12.2 g's symmetrical during a Guns 'D' break. The high 'g' hurt Hill Billy's neck and he was was out of the hunt for a few days. We had the brand new Blk 90 Turkey x-rayed, inspected and gone over by a team of Grummanites...... not a lose rivet, zero skin wrinkles, perfect engine mounts, no hyd or fuel leaks; Just a broke RO. NAVAIR kept slapping new 'g' restrictions on the Turkey cause they figured them to last 100yrs. Hell, they would have lasted a hunnert and fifty years with a symmetrical 9.5 'g' guidance doctrine."

 

-Joe Hoser Satrapa

 

 

"In fact the F-14 was tested a lot more rigorously to precisely establish the limits of the airframe, Grumman committing an unprecented number of aircraft to stress testing. The F-14 airframe was stressed over 14 G's on the bench, and later flight tested to 13 G's without incident. Grumman wanted to make sure the thing could last!"

 

...did I mention 12, 13, or 14Gs anywhere in my post? ;)

 

If you somehow manage to pull 20Gs, you're going to have a bad time. Period.


Edited by Cobra847
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...did I mention 12, 13, or 14Gs anywhere in my post?

 

If you somehow manage to pull 20Gs, you're going to have a bad time. Period.

 

Come on, admit it Cobra, you just like wielding Thor's hammer to make your point :D

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...did I mention 12, 13, or 14Gs anywhere in my post? ;)

 

If you somehow manage to pull 20Gs, you're going to have a bad time. Period.

 

No you didn't mention a number at all, or the reasoning behind it, that's why I said it 'sounds arbitrary'.

 

And yes, 20G's is going to give more than your airplane a bad day haha.:thumbup:

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