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DCS: Mi-24P - What we know + Discussion


MrDieing

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Gunner operates the Raduga-F sight (which is more or less a downsized submarine periscope, turned upside down :)), and guides Shturm missiles with it. I'm not sure but I think they also operate countermeasures, and, according to some internet lore, can "designate" a target point, so that it would appear on pilot's gunsight glass (take the last two with a pinch of salt, I'd love the latter to be true, but don't know if it really is).

 

As for the photo, I remember wondering the same thing years ago :). Apparently, it is just a flight telemetry thing that was mounted by... American Mi-24s for when they fly to simulate OPFOR :)

 

Some Mi-24s had R-60s operationally, and it seems like we will get them, but apparently iglas or strelas weren't used on Hinds.

 

The countermeasures panel is above the gunners right shoulder.

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I was looking for some nice Mi-24 pictures(wallpaper) and came across this attached picture, interesting loadout on the outer wingtip station, looks like some sort of igla? Was this ever used operationally or was it just carried as a test?

 

Yes it is IGLA there. You can see it has its thermal battery attached to topside.

 

Mi-24 is very heavily customized by creative ways by various crews. So you will get a lot of things that are officially unofficial, or unofficially official.

 

So ED actually has plenty of space to do all kind various weapons loadouts etc.

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Personally I'm also happy we are getting the 30mm Cannon. Yes, the turret would give the front seat something else to do, and would be a lot of fun, but I think the fixed Cannon will be more effective. One has to look only as far as the SA342L Gazelle to see how effective a large fixed Cannon can be on a helicopter. I've turned light armor into twisted metal quickly and effectively with that beast!

 

If only the Gazelle had an FM already*... well we also can do it with the Black Shark and the gun fixed forward dealwithit.png

Fun thing I noticed about that BTW is I think it's easier to aim that in VR, as well as rockets, since it works best when you're directly flying at your target, which can be perceived in VR much easier.

 

*I know they'll be working on it after the KW release; that hard coded deadzone makes it literally feel like flying with keyboard only, how am I supposed to tame that thing, not even dare to speak about aiming things at things

 

BTW that video on the last page raised one question for me: Is the Mi-24 actually a three seater? I always was under the impression it just had the P and CP/G, but there's some cheeky git sitting directly behind the pilot there.

 

And I guess something: If we yank around the controls like that, the chopper will be all over the place in DCS rdlaugh.png

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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BTW that video on the last page raised one question for me: Is the Mi-24 actually a three seater? I always was under the impression it just had the P and CP/G, but there's some cheeky git sitting directly behind the pilot there.

 

 

Yes, the flight engineer seat is directly behind the pilot seat. He is tasked to follow the pilot commands while in flight. So organizes things etc.

 

If I remember correctly, the flight engineer position was often manned in Afghanistan by a Mil engineers and other scientists when performing various tests for improvements etc.

 

Sure there is the cargo space as well for the infantry, weapons and cargo...

 

Here you can see the doorway to behind the pilot seat. And the flight engineer seat is there.

 

0893-768x512.jpg

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0_537c8_fc7c1f63_XL.jpg

Flight technician's parachute, as well as the entrance to the flight technician's compartment on the Mi-24P.

 

0_537c9_38a1df29_XL.jpg

Flight technician's compartment on the Mi-24P.

 

In most cases, flight technicians did not participate in combat missions in Afghanistan because of the army order, the aim of which was to reduce losses among the flight crews.

 

In cases where flight technicians participated in combat missions on the Mi-24, they also performed the duties of air gunners from the PKT or PKM machine guns.

 

1533223675_e-news.su_3.jpg

 

5911399.jpg

 

1423902855_rrjo-24_srrrsrrrrs-sssrrrrrr_1.jpg

 

Original in Russian

 

Парашют бортового техника, а также вход в отсек борттехника.

 

Отсек бортового техника.

 

В большинстве случаев бортовые техники не принимали участия в боевых вылетах в Афганистане из-за армейского приказа, целью которого было снижение потерь среди лётных экипажей.

 

В тех случаях, когда борттехники участвовали в боевых вылетах на Ми-24, они также выполняли обязанности воздушных стрелков из пулемётов ПКТ или ПКМ.

 


Edited by S.E.Bulba
update.

Sorry, I don't speak English, so I use Google Translate.

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So basically he's comparable to the guy sitting in the centre seat in the Mi-8.

 

Little bit yes, just not having tasks in cockpit like in Mi-8 AFAIK.

 

If I remember correctly, it was suppose to be place where squad leader sit and so on can communicate with pilot without intercom.

 

But as mi-24 is not so much used for troop transports, it does make it interesting what other purposes it has.

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On the Mi-24P russian forum : https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4403119&postcount=2848

 

Is it only me, or do I already hear the roar of the two Isotov TV3-117VMA turboshaft engines? biggrin.gif

Let hope be with us !smilewink.gif

 

Hopefully. I am as well very interested to see how ED solved VR problem in gunner positions for aiming missiles etc with the targeting system.

And it adds a new challenged cockpit cockpit design as the controller is fairly unique, like in AH-64 etc.

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So far in can read out of the Russian Forum, they try to implement the R-60.

But it will be there on release is unkown.

 

Pretty Hilarious Storys about this Missle, because Russian Pilots did not have Night Vision Googles in the Afghanistan War, they tryed to pick up Heat Signatures in with R-60 in Night Operations. But success was realitive small, this was the kind of better then Nothing.

 

 

By the Way there to the Picture tow sides before, like WinterH said the US Army MI-24 that probably Laser Tec stuff to simulate Training. There is no Russian Hind with this Kind of tube below the Hard Points. And P Version we get with SPO-10, was in the Time Frame of Strela Missiles at best.

 

 

God Side for Technical Information in Englisch, z,b 16 Shturm Missles loadout in the NVA.

 

 

https://www.16va.be/4.2_les_mi-24_part1_eng.html

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By the Way there to the Picture tow sides before, like WinterH said the US Army MI-24 that probably Laser Tec stuff to simulate Training. There is no Russian Hind with this Kind of tube below the Hard Points. And P Version we get with SPO-10, was in the Time Frame of Strela Missiles at best.

 

 

God Side for Technical Information in Englisch, z,b 16 Shturm Missles loadout in the NVA.

 

 

https://www.16va.be/4.2_les_mi-24_part1_eng.html

Are you sure about that? I only remember the old "Discovery Documentary" about the US Hind with that "Laser tec" stuff and that looked quite different from the picture i posted. You can compare it with the YT video at 04:02, the picture doesn't look anything close to that "Laser tec" stuff.

 

Also are you sure that 16 Shturm missiles are correct? I always thought there was only the possiblity of 4 AT-2 Swatter(Phalanga), or 4/8 AT-6 Spiral(Shturm) for the "classic" Hind and only for the modernized Mi-35 the option for 16 AT-9 Spiral-2(Ataka).

 

For german speaking people, this looks like a great source(NVA-Flieger - NVA Airman):

https://www.nva-flieger.de/index.php/technik/bew/palr-falanga.html

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… Is it only me, or do I already hear the roar of the two Isotov TV3-117VMA turboshaft engines?..

For some reason, it seems to me that in the DCS: Mi-24P we will hear the roar of the TV3-117V engines [reference datum]. :)

 

… Also are you sure that 16 Shturm missiles are correct? I always thought there was only the possiblity of 4 AT-2 Swatter(Phalanga), or 4/8 AT-6 Spiral(Shturm) for the "classic" Hind and only for the modernized Mi-35 the option for 16 AT-9 Spiral-2(Ataka)…

4/8 AT-6 Spiral (9M114 Shturm) or 4/8 AT-9 Spiral-2 (9M120 Ataka) for the Mi-24V/P ("classic" Hind).

<…>

Управляемое ракетное вооружение «Штурм-В» (комплекс 9К113) предназначено для поражения ракетами 9М114 (9М114Ф) и 9М120 малоразмерных бронированных подвижных и неподвижных наземных целей, оснащённых навесной и встроенной динамической защитой, полевых сооружений типа ДОТ, ДЗОТ, блиндажей и других объектов, а также малоскоростных воздушных целей (вертолётов и самолётов) при прямом попадании.

<…>

В состав комплекса входят:

  • ракеты 9М114, 9М114Ф («Штурм») и 9М120 («Атака»);
  • <…>

<…>

Пусковые трубы-контейнеры с ракетами крепятся к пусковым рамам. На каждой пусковой раме устанавливаются по две пусковые трубы-контейнера с ракетами. На вертолёте на пилонах консолей крыла с помощью переходников стационарно установлены две пусковые рамы, ещё две рамы с переходниками могут подвешиваться на внешних балочных держателях…

 

Original in Russian

 

Мне почему-то кажется, что в DCS: Ми-24П мы будем слышать рёв двигателей ТВ3-117В [справочные данные]. :)

 

4/8 AT-6 Spiral (9М114 «Штурм») или 4/8 AT-9 Spiral-2 (9М120 «Атака») для Ми-24В/П («классический» Hind).

 


Edited by S.E.Bulba
the typo of the 9K114 missiles to the 9M114 is fixed.

Sorry, I don't speak English, so I use Google Translate.

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For some reason, it seems to me that in the DCS: Mi-24P we will hear the roar of the TV3-117V engines [reference datum]. :)

 

 

4/8 AT-6 Spiral (9K114 Shturm) or 4/8 AT-9 Spiral-2 (9M120 Ataka) for the Mi-24V/P ("classic" Hind).

 

 

Original in Russian

 

Мне почему-то кажется, что в DCS: Ми-24П мы будем слышать рёв двигателей ТВ3-117В [справочные данные]. :)

 

4/8 AT-6 Spiral (9М114 «Штурм») или 4/8 AT-9 Spiral-2 (9М120 «Атака») для Ми-24В/П («классический» Hind).

 

Thank you very much :thumbup: :beer:

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@MAD-MM

The text only describes that it is used as part of the Army Test and Evaluation Centre and that it is returning from a "silmulated hostile thread to CSAR". But it doesn't tell anything about what it has equipped to its wing stations. Part of that role (threat simulation) is to show how "enemy" equipment looks like, we can see unguided rocket pod, guided anti tank missiles und what looks like an igla launcher(arrow 2). The "Laser Tec" stuff looks like the one at arrow 1 as far as i know.

 

I'm not saying that this is a regular loadout or was ever used operationally or even worked(mockup) and i don't ask ED to implement it, i was just curious becasue i never saw that before on a Hind and it looked like an igla.

737609719_2020-06-2911_49_40-Mi-24DesertRescue-MilMi-24Wikipedia-InternetExplorer.thumb.png.bc7c36cb7a6a29bdc56b98387f11a4ca.png

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@MAD-MM

The text only describes that it is used as part of the Army Test and Evaluation Centre and that it is returning from a "silmulated hostile thread to CSAR". But it doesn't tell anything about what it has equipped to its wing stations. Part of that role (threat simulation) is to show how "enemy" equipment looks like, we can see unguided rocket pod, guided anti tank missiles und what looks like an igla launcher(arrow 2). The "Laser Tec" stuff looks like the one at arrow 1 as far as i know.

 

I'm not saying that this is a regular loadout or was ever used operationally or even worked(mockup) and i don't ask ED to implement it, i was just curious becasue i never saw that before on a Hind and it looked like an igla.

 

 

 

 

Yes but there is no actual Hind in the Russian Army you can find with something like a IGLA under the Wing. The first apperence of IGLA's was on the Ka-52 and Mi-28 in the past century.

Dont think for US more likley they dont spend time an Money to integrate IGLA's in to the Hind (Hardware and Software that was never developed) to simulate something that the Enemy never had.

After it is a Training Chopper to Simulate War Games, for me it's more reasoneable a Device to Simulate Attacks.

But oblivios can be wrong, because there is not future Information to this Device.

Once you have tasted Flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your Eyes turned Skyward.

 

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They don't need ''Igla software interface'', #1. All these wargames are conducted with lasers and training software. They can ''enable'' whatever weapon system they want.

 

I examined it closely and compared photos intending to disprove it, but it does indeed appear to be an Igla as far as I can see. As to 'why'? These exercises are intended to ''simulate'' various things, often using stand-ins. While a Hind is not a Ka-52 or Mi-28, it may very well be used as a stand in capability wise, because they have Hinds, but not any Ka-52s or Mi-28s. Same reason they use F-15s to ''simulate'' Flankers, and F-5s to ''simulate'' MiG-21s : because they happen to have a bunch of them laying around.

Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Yes but there is no actual Hind in the Russian Army you can find with something like a IGLA under the Wing. The first appearance of IGLA's was on the Ka-52 and Mi-28 in the past century.

 

Lack of evidence is not evidence.

 

Helicopters with A-A missiles are rare thing to see, but it doesn't mean that they are not designed to carry them if a such scenario would happen it is required.

 

If there is some evidence that something has been carried, prepared etc. It is more than no evidence that it has never been so. Logic is primary evidence.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=234847&d=1588663300

 

Soviets has experimented lots of things with shared weapons and systems, like Mi-24 and Mi-8 has been seen launching and flying with R-60, R-73, IGLA-V missiles (even 2 x 8 racks), among many others.

 

When one is responsible for planning for all kind scenarios, they want to be prepared that what they can come up as answer in those scenarios. But if those scenarios doesn't happen, you do not activate such plans for equipment use etc.

 

And this is the main argumentary in DCS, going from more flexibility positions where mission designer is given the power to decide what to be used, to positions where everything is locked to very specific year, group in specific country loadout and politics.

 

Personally I take the more flexibility situation where I can design my own missions as I please, and I can use the paid module more between various historical events, or create non-realistic scenarios but that are plausible, more like a writer creates their own fictional scenarios a la Tom Clancy. It doesn't mean we need to start to go completely sci-fi where we have lasers and some fancy bombs and missiles that never run out of fuel etc (that are even in not so unrealistic movies kit).

 

Too much seriousness here, that might be the problem.

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IIRC, the Igla-V system was also hung on the Mi-35M for advertising purposes at air shows in the 1990s.

 

Photos by the Aviation and Time journal (#3'1996, p.16, ISSN 2304-1501).

img_49.jpg

 

img_50.jpg

 

img_51.jpg

DJWsfuqWsAEA7su.jpg

 

In addition, there are old photos of the Mi-8MTV5 with a hanging Igla-V system.

 

Mi8t-7.jpg

 

Currently, the Strelets SEM is hanging on the Mi-35M for advertising purposes (photo by the Army-2017 forum).

 

i-Kb6bTTj-O.jpg

 

Original in Russian

 

ЕМНИП, систему «Игла-В» также подвешивали на Ми-35М в рекламных целях на авиасалонах в 1990-х годах.

 

Фото из журнала «Авиация и Время» (№3'1996, стр.16, ISSN 2304-1501).

 

Кроме того, встречаются старые фото Mi-8MTV5 с подвешенной системой «Игла-В».

 

В настоящее время на Ми-35М в рекламных целях подвешивают КАМ «Стрелец» (фото с форума «Армия-2017»).

 


Edited by S.E.Bulba
update.

Sorry, I don't speak English, so I use Google Translate.

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@S.E.Bulba

Thanks for the great pictures! :thumbup: :beer:

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Lack of evidence is not evidence.

 

 

And no evidence it enough reasonable to put a since fiction weapon under the MI-24 P Hind?

 

 

 

 

Back to your nice Logic Diagramm, why the send the MI-24 P in to service with R60 Weapons that block a complete weapon station for ground Weapons, meanwhile the could hang the well adopted Igla.

 

Mi-24 P was allready in Production when the first man portable IGLA arrived, on military Equipment it is not plug in hope it will work.

Need considerable testing adope Hardware such as Pylons and Software to such things.

 

 

Mission design is fare more Intressting, to go with this wad you had not any fanci stuff that could might be Happen.

Once you have tasted Flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your Eyes turned Skyward.

 

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wonder when we will start seeing wags videos of the hind

 

I hope to see the first one before end 2020...:thumbup:

Fore sure they are working on the project.

The Mi-24P was announced for 2020 but we are already in July and it would be surprising to see a release still this year. Maybe during the Winter or Spring 2021...

Or...who knows, maybe very good news before end of Dec 20....

ED has not communicated very much on the Mi-24P since a few weeks.:huh:

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@MAD-MM

The text only describes that it is used as part of the Army Test and Evaluation Centre and that it is returning from a "silmulated hostile thread to CSAR". But it doesn't tell anything about what it has equipped to its wing stations. Part of that role (threat simulation) is to show how "enemy" equipment looks like, we can see unguided rocket pod, guided anti tank missiles und what looks like an igla launcher(arrow 2). The "Laser Tec" stuff looks like the one at arrow 1 as far as i know.

 

I'm not saying that this is a regular loadout or was ever used operationally or even worked(mockup) and i don't ask ED to implement it, i was just curious becasue i never saw that before on a Hind and it looked like an igla.

 

I know hinds had r60s attached (jury rigged) in the 80s on the IGB. it was to intercept civilian flights after that german teens stunt

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