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Su(bmarine)-33 campaign bug :)


guilhermemtr
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Hi,

 

Well, the update to the SU-33 is very good, but with it came one problem in the campaign of SU-33: when the second plane tries to take off, it just lands on the sea (the same would've happened to my plane if I hadn't taken out part of the fuel [i think the wheels still got wet with about 50% fuel]).

 

cheers!

Setup:

 

OS: Win 10

Hardware: i5-4690, 16 Gb ddr3 1600, GTX 970

 

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Hi,

 

Well, the update to the SU-33 is very good, but with it came one problem in the campaign of SU-33: when the second plane tries to take off, it just lands on the sea (the same would've happened to my plane if I hadn't taken out part of the fuel [i think the wheels still got wet with about 50% fuel]).

 

cheers!

 

Will be getting looked at ASAP to see if a simple solution can be implemented, it might be a little more complicated than it appears on the surface.

 

I know I want to retain as much ordinance and fuel as I can get away with and still take-off. I am not fully aware of true stats for carrier takeoffs as yet, I have seen 27000kg (Forward Take-off position) and 33000kg (Rear Take-off position) talked about in the forums.

 

Regards, Ian.

Asus p877v-pro, Intel I7 3770k 4.2ghz, 32gb Ripjaw X ram, Nvidia RTX-2070 Super, Samsung 32" TV, Saitek x52 pro Joystick and Combat rudder pedals, TrackIR 5, Win8.1 x64 with SSD and SSHD protected by (Avast AV).

 

DCS Tech Support.

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A quick fix would be to open the mission editor and set 50% fuel to every su33 flight.

 

I have only played a few mission, and it looks like the conflict zone is small enough there is no need of more fuel.

 

Yes this is most likely the case in the Sea Dragon campaign mission design.

 

Not so much with the way Su-33 Heavy Sky campaign missions are designed:

 

  • A lot of sorties are quite away from the carrier.
  • You are frequently ambushed coming home to the carrier after an engagement.
  • Sometime you have to attack enemy aircraft the moment you take off from the carrier.
  • All of the above don't lend themselves well to putting in a refuel stop at the beginning or end of a mission, even though I did put a tanker into some of the longer sorties.

I did a quick test with mission 10 of the Heavy sky campaign, and all AI in forward 2 positions crashed on take off with only 20-25% fuel load and existing weapons load, so not looking to good.

 

 

 

Regards, Ian.


Edited by MadDog-IC

Asus p877v-pro, Intel I7 3770k 4.2ghz, 32gb Ripjaw X ram, Nvidia RTX-2070 Super, Samsung 32" TV, Saitek x52 pro Joystick and Combat rudder pedals, TrackIR 5, Win8.1 x64 with SSD and SSHD protected by (Avast AV).

 

DCS Tech Support.

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Yes this is most likely the case in the Sea Dragon campaign mission design.

 

Not so much with the way Su-33 Heavy Sky campaign missions are designed:

 

  • A lot of sorties are quite away from the carrier.
  • You are frequently ambushed coming home to the carrier after an engagement.
  • Sometime you have to attack enemy aircraft the moment you take off from the carrier.
  • All of the above don't lend themselves well to putting in a refuel stop at the beginning or end of a mission, even though I did put a tanker into some of the longer sorties.

I did a quick test with mission 10 of the Heavy sky campaign, and all AI in forward 2 positions crashed on take off with only 20-25% fuel load and existing weapons load, so not looking to good.

 

 

 

Regards, Ian.

You can get the AI to takeoff successfully with a total weight of 25000 kg. So 35% fuel, sorbtsiya, R-73*2, R-27ER*2 and R-27ET*2. But the carrier needs to be steaming at full speed. A human can make it off the deck from the forward positon with a total weight of 27000 kg without a problem. But, again, the carrier needs to be steaming at full speed.

 

And it helps if there's also a headwind (for human pilots-the AI seems not to care). This morning, when I tested, I used the real time wind in the area at both sea level and 500 meters. Takeoff was a walk in the park. But, again, with a weight of 27,000 kg.

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YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

_____

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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You can get the AI to takeoff successfully with a total weight of 25000 kg. So 35% fuel, sorbtsiya, R-73*2, R-27ER*2 and R-27ET*2. But the carrier needs to be steaming at full speed. A human can make it off the deck from the forward position with a total weight of 27000 kg without a problem. But, again, the carrier needs to be steaming at full speed.

 

And it helps if there's also a headwind (for human pilots-the AI seems not to care). This morning, when I tested, I used the real time wind in the area at both sea level and 500 meters. Takeoff was a walk in the park. But, again, with a weight of 27,000 kg.

 

Thanks for the good info, but on reading other material I would expect that any Su-33 should be able to carrier take off with a max load of 30,000kg (About 72% fuel and full complement of missiles)or (100% fuel and no missiles).

 

  1. Player driven Su-33 PFM with realistic physics, Blast flap, chocks and braking until engine to max thrust, emergency special extra thrust enhancement, Head wind assist and carrier full speed should allow a short take off with ease.
  2. AI driven Su-33 SFM with unrealistic physics, no braking until engine to max thrust, no emergency special extra thrust enhancement, no head wind assist and no carrier full speed would disallow a short take off.

I would respectfully suggest that something is amiss or needs to be added to address the discrepency in the Max take off weights. The AI should simulate the emergency extra engine thrust for take off at the least.

 

 

Kind Regards, Ian.

Asus p877v-pro, Intel I7 3770k 4.2ghz, 32gb Ripjaw X ram, Nvidia RTX-2070 Super, Samsung 32" TV, Saitek x52 pro Joystick and Combat rudder pedals, TrackIR 5, Win8.1 x64 with SSD and SSHD protected by (Avast AV).

 

DCS Tech Support.

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Thanks for the good info, but on reading other material I would expect that any Su-33 should be able to carrier take off with a max load of 30,000kg (About 72% fuel and full complement of missiles)or (100% fuel and no missiles).

 

...

I would respectfully suggest that something is amiss or needs to be added to address the discrepency in the Max take off weights. The AI should simulate the emergency extra engine thrust for take off at the least.

I haven't attempted it with a 30,000 kg gross weight but this is one from yesterday using 29,500:

 

 

 

And something is definitely amiss. I attached the track used to make the video. The 2nd identical track has the AI in control (opened the track in the ME and changed my aircraft to AI). We leave the ramp with two very different airspeeds. And, yes, it's not a walk in the park but the AI doesn't stand a chance.

PFM 29.5Kg Takeoff-Carrier 50.trk

PFM 29.5Kg AI Takeoff-Carrier 50.trk

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

_____

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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I haven't attempted it with a 30,000 kg gross weight but this is one from yesterday using 29,500:

 

And something is definitely amiss. I attached the track used to make the video. The 2nd identical track has the AI in control (opened the track in the ME and changed my aircraft to AI). We leave the ramp with two very different airspeeds. And, yes, it's not a walk in the park but the AI doesn't stand a chance.

 

Good effort, I couldn't see that becoming best practice for takeoffs though.:megalol:

 

This is the only reference to real life limitations I found online, not exactly definitive (Doesn't give enough details on amount of fuel or weapons and contradicts itself, by saying Max carrier T-O weight is 30,000kg, but is mentioned that is somewhere below that of a clean plane with full internal fuel at 100%).

 

 

Weights and Loadings:

---------------------------

 

Max military load 7,045 kg (15,532 lb)

Normal T-O weight 25,000 kg (55,115 lb)

Max carrier T-O weight 30,000 kg (66,135 lb)

Max T-O weight 33,000 kg (72,752 lb)

Max landing weight 24,500 kg (54,013 lb)

Max wing loading 486.4 kg/m2 (99.63 lb/sq ft)

Max power loading 131 kg/kN (1.29 lb/lb st)

(source: Jane's All the World's Aircraft 2001-2002)

 

In real terms, the SU-33 cannot take off from the Kuznetsov with a full load of fuel. So its maximum takeoff weight is somewhere below its "weight empty with full internal fuel" when operating from a ski jump.

 

Either way, thanks for your testing, a bit further ahead of me and very useful.

 

I have passed my concerns onto WAG's, stating I wouldn't be willing to modify the missions Su-33 fuel levels as I believed it to be more of a physics / AI problem.

 

He has passed it on to the appropriate coders/testers to investigate our claims further.

 

Regards, Ian.

Asus p877v-pro, Intel I7 3770k 4.2ghz, 32gb Ripjaw X ram, Nvidia RTX-2070 Super, Samsung 32" TV, Saitek x52 pro Joystick and Combat rudder pedals, TrackIR 5, Win8.1 x64 with SSD and SSHD protected by (Avast AV).

 

DCS Tech Support.

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...

I have passed my concerns onto WAG's, stating ... it to be more of a physics / AI problem.

 

He has passed it on to the appropriate coders/testers to investigate our claims further.

 

Regards, Ian.

Excellent.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

_____

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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Excellent.

 

Even more excellent is that it has been fixed already in the dcs v1.57.10175 patch today 30-09-2017, so long as the carrier is steaming at 50km/h.

 

Got to love those boffins at ED.

 

My first take off and fly around, I tore both wings off, oh well.

 

I have checked the Su-33 Heavy Sky campaign and made a few alterations to some missions, making sure the Kuznetsov is steaming at max speed into wind and that all missions are playable (Uploaded updated campaign files onto the ED DCS files section).

 

Will be checking and updating the SU-33 Sea Dragon Campaign in the near future for compatibility also, I suspect a little more work with that one, as I never played with carrier speeds or wind data last time around.

 

Cheers.


Edited by MadDog-IC

Asus p877v-pro, Intel I7 3770k 4.2ghz, 32gb Ripjaw X ram, Nvidia RTX-2070 Super, Samsung 32" TV, Saitek x52 pro Joystick and Combat rudder pedals, TrackIR 5, Win8.1 x64 with SSD and SSHD protected by (Avast AV).

 

DCS Tech Support.

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Even more excellent is that it has been fixed already in the dcs v1.57.10175 patch today 30-09-2017, so long as the carrier is steaming at 50km/h.

 

Got to love those boffins at ED.

 

My first take off and fly around, I tore both wings off, oh well.

 

I have checked the Su-33 Heavy Sky campaign and made a few alterations to some missions, making sure the Kuznetsov is steaming at max speed into wind and that all missions are playable (Uploaded updated campaign files onto the ED DCS files section).

 

Will be checking and updating the SU-33 Sea Dragon Campaign in the near future for compatibility also, I suspect a little more work with that one, as I never played with carrier speeds or wind data last time around.

 

Cheers.

Cool! And great work.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

_____

Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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