SU-33 refueling FBW augmentation/dampening

[Fri13]

Thats correct.

 

Trim is for helping pilots, not mandatory of course, but in my experience ( i have several virtual squad mates that are real pilots, they always use the trim )

 

On another hand i dont have an idea how is working the Trim-AFCS-dampening system in the real Su-33 in refuelling mode but taking in count today ED updated 1.5.7 allowing trim in refuelling mode makes me wonder that is because its possible in real life.

 

Also think about the AFCS combined mode ( that the way russians call this mode ) where you can use an autopilot mode ( like refueliing mode ) and just push a button on the stick, keepingit pushed, change attitude, and release the button and the AFCS will keep the new attitude by itself.

 

The well known Attitute Hold AFCS mode.

 

This is not working right now in DCS for the Su-33 and if ED implement it its gonna be very easy to make changes while refueling even without trimming.

The trimming worked before patch, but seems only in a trim button mode. Why i don't have problems as i fly to position, press and hold trim to center stick and now it flies in wanted angle on level and i can take hand off from stick (if the tanker wouldn't do deadly turns suddenly without confirmation as they should wait that you repeat every command they say) as auto throttle keeps speed and AR mode the level and roll.

Now all i need to do is to simply do small corrections with stick if so required (as in turbulence as well to stay in course).

 

I still don't know why the probe doesn't retract when pressing probe button but waits like 2-3min.

The flaps does get retract as altitude does drop, but you are in RF mode.

 

And i don't know what bug is it that in RF mode i can push full throttle, temps and RPM goes to maximum and afterburner lights lit up, fuel consumption is at max, and external view shows them enabled, yet speed doesn't increase and even tanker can fly away from you.

Then when RF mode finally gets disabled, you gain speed normally.

 

I get that RF mode would disable throttle from max, to limits of datalink speed of tanker so you have easy time to manage speed, but why fuel consumption and afterburners are on and you are just hold on air like dragging a parachute while air break and wheels and landing flaps out!

 

 

 

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I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

[Esac_mirmidon]

The refueling rod stays extended as long as the fuel System is getting purgued.

 

When all fuel conducts are purgued the rod retracts.

[Svend_Dellepude]

 

When all fuel conducts are purgued the rod retracts.

 

So to speak! :D

[miromurin]

It seems trimming is now possible in refueling mode. But it wasn't before last patch. Fri13, nobody said we want to refuel in dive and roll, so no need to be sarcastic and aggressive. Just stay calm. I am just talking about fighting AP in turns during refueling. Now when I can trim plane it is easier, but I still don't understand why I can't turn AP off in refueling mode. It was much more easier to refuel without AP

[Esac_mirmidon]

Easier while turning.

 

Now with AP refuelling in a straight line is a piece of cake.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Esac_mirmidon

[ricktoberfest]

It seems trimming is now possible in refueling mode. But it wasn't before last patch. Fri13, nobody said we want to refuel in dive and roll, so no need to be sarcastic and aggressive. Just stay calm. I am just talking about fighting AP in turns during refueling. Now when I can trim plane it is easier, but I still don't understand why I can't turn AP off in refueling mode. It was much more easier to refuel without AP

 

 

 

A lot of that is because of the real flight model too. It was almost scripted before so of course it was easer. Now it’s realistic and with the addition of allowing trimming it’s perfect now.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fri13]

The refueling rod stays extended as long as the fuel System is getting purgued.

 

No fuel in the refueling system, the rod doesn't retract until specific time has spent.

 

When the probe is extended, Su-33 can go full afterburner but speed doesn't raise, you just spend all the fuel for afterburners.

 

When you retract the probe pressing button, you can notice that the flaps are back automatic (not down) and flight path returns normal, but the probe is still out. If you re-press probe extension, you can see it extends like a centimeter and then flaps gets back out.

 

You just don't get out of the refueling mode regardless that the switches are flipped.

That is the main problem what you need to fight against for, you just can't resume normal flight before the probe is retracted after unspecific time.

 

Do you expect a fighter pilot to sit in the cockpit doing nothing for few minutes if the sudden attack happens in the refueling phase?

 

Is it normal that you can enable full afterburner but the aircraft can't speed past like 380km/h in level flight at 4500m altitude until probe gets retracted and suddenly allt he power is "found"?

[Fri13]

It seems trimming is now possible in refueling mode. But it wasn't before last patch. Fri13, nobody said we want to refuel in dive and roll, so no need to be sarcastic and aggressive.

 

Well that was the demand here for to get the special mode disabled. The AP is there to allow you "hands off" flight in formation in refueling standard procedures. That is mainly done in straight and level flight in the range of the course that the tanker navigator specify (based many variables and requirements) and not in the turning.

If the turning is required to be done, it is no where near the limits of the +-5 degree pitch and +-10 degree roll angles that the special mode limits the stick controls to be for smooth and accurate flight.

 

Even I, total first timer to do a aerial refueling in the time I stated in one of the messages in this thread, managed to do perfect four connections in straight and turn without problems, stay in the formation hands-off. And this was before the update to fix the trimming for some, as my trimming worked perfectly.

 

No need to fight against special mode at all, as it was there to assist me all the time. Just like the auto throttle that made it super easy to just correct the speed as required visually, as by the special mode HUD that now is in aerial refueling mode in one digit accuracy as required.

 

The current problems are still the obvious bugs (like special mode disables your speed changes even when you are in full afterburner) and the tanker crew operations itself (conduction turns without acknowledgement and copy from the receiver that he is prepared to do the correction, and then the tanker does the turn too sharply even).

 

The point was that the special mode is there not for just nice weather, but for a bad weather, almost zero visibility conditions etc where pilots will lose their headings and the system limits the controls input so that large control moves can be done without radical output causing collision or other accidents.

 

This is the beauty of the system that it is designed to make the refueling reprocedure easier and safer for everyone, not difficult. So demanding that it should be possible without is little off.

 

But I do agree that as it is a two switches separately, it would be nice to be able to enable them separately, but this is a FC3 level module so that is unlikely to happen. The way to disable the special mode can be very well same kind a cheat like the "Wheel Break" button to override the stick limiter controls for higher AoA.

 

And as it is now fixed that everyone should now be able to trim in flight, it should be now for everyone pleasant to go and refuel in difficult conditions too.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Please Fri13, dont insist when the official manual says so.

 

[Fri13]

Please Fri13, dont insist when the official manual says so.

 

I Don't care of the probe is out.... But tell why the probe keeps your afterburner not delivering thrust but consuming fuel?

 

Why controls and HUD are locked to special mode until probe is retracted?

 

I believe the probe will stay out for that as manual say, but you will not be a 70 000kg hog in air before probe is retracted in!

 

Don't quote manual for me, go and try it!

Minutes you are locked out from controls and modes until probe physically extracts!

 

 

 

 

 

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I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

[Esac_mirmidon]

Im talking about why the probe takes time to retract.

 

You may ask ED why the other things are happening.

[Fri13]

Im talking about why the probe takes time to retract.

 

You may ask ED why the other things are happening.

Why it takes time to retract when sensor hasn't spotted refueling to happen? Meaning

It is just silly that if you once extend it, you can't cancel the 2min timer regardless is there a fuel or not.

 

Designing a system so extending probe without failsafes or sensors doesn't seem sensible for soviets.

Why the special mode should be a own separate switch command so one can resume to normal flight operations regardless of the probe position.

 

problem ain't why the probe ain't detracted but why we don't get the special mode disconnected after refueling as we should (as both are binded to same button!).

 

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I usually post from my phone so please excuse any typos, inappropriate punctuation and capitalization, missing words and general lack of cohesion and sense in my posts.....

Edited October 23, 2017 by Fri13

[miromurin]

I have no problem with thrust with refueling probe extended. I reach easily 1100 km/h in level flight. also when I press ctrl R second time I have no problem with controls. everything works good in that 2 minutes period until refuel probe retract

[Baz000]

I was able to refuel just fine in single player... Wonder if it is just a problem in multiplayer or if flight model got fixed recently

[Baz000]

not a clue what the red, green and yellow lights mean on the refueling pod tho that the Russians use tho... Any one have a clue as to what they mean?

[Ironhand]

not a clue what the red, green and yellow lights mean on the refueling pod tho that the Russians use tho... Any one have a clue as to what they mean?

As near as I can tell, when connected:

 

• Solid green and no other lights: Distance OK, speed of tanker and your aircraft match.
   
  
• Green, flashing yellow: Distance OK, closing distance on tanker
   
  
• Green, flashing red: Distance OK but opening distance on tanker.
   
  
• Solid yellow: Too close, move back
   
  
• Solid red: Too far, move forward
  

[wavn]

Like the ATAR with the SU 33 a lot: straitforward and not difficult (but is it possible made too easy in relation to the real thing?).

[miromurin]

Aerial refueling is again nice and easy after last update of DCS 2. Also airbrake indicator works