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Odyssey vs rift/Vive pixel density


Thick8
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I was curious what the difference between the Odyssey screen and the Rift/Vive was so I did some math.

So the Samsung Odyssey has a screen resolution of 1440x1600 per eye with a FOV of 110 degrees diagonal. Therefore:

110 degrees diagonal gives a pixel value of 2153. So the vFOV is 81.75 degrees (110/2153=81.75/1600) and the vPD is 19.57. The hFOV is 73.57 degrees (110/2153=73.57/1440) and the hPD is also 19.57. This means that the Odyssey has right at 383 (19.57x19.57) pixels per square degree.

 

The Vive and Oculus have a screen resolution of 1080/1200 per eye. Therefore:

100 degrees diagonal gives a pixel value of 1615. So the vFOV is 74.3 degrees (100/1615=74.3/1200) and the vPD is 16.15. The hFOV is 66.87 degrees (100/1615=66.87/1080) and the hPD is also 16.15. This means that the Odyssey has right at 261 (16.15x16.15) pixels per square degree.

So if I’m doing this correctly then the Odyssey has 122 pixels (or about 32%) per square degree more than the Rift and Vive. Is this right?


Edited by Thick8

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Actually it is little bit diferent. Diagonally is just mesuring for screen size and size of the screen depending om lens magnification factor but that is the diferent storry. All this aspect effecting on final impresion what is actually combine this aspect after all.

 

Key factor for pixel density is PPD and that is a short for Pixel Per Degree and this aspect not effecting on SDE at all and don't mix it with PPI (Pixel Per Inch) which is representing physical display resolution which is actually SDE.

 

PPD is measuring number of pixels in one degree vertically or horizontally. In this case we will calculating horizontally. So formula will be horizontal res per eye / FOV give you approximate PPD value. It is hard to get exactly value because VR is based on subjective impresion and every individual user have different personal measures like IPD, head size or eye dioptry.

But if you use same principals you will got precise differences to compare it by PPD.

So lets calculate now. In all this VR 110 FOV is max but realistic is smaller so we will use for calculating round 100 value.

 

DK2/PSVR 960/100=9,6 PPD - 89% (-11% to CV1/Vive)

CV1/Vive 1080/100=10,8 PPD - 100% (referent point for comparison)

Pimax4K 1280/100=12,8 PPD - 119% (+19% to CV1/Vive)

Odyssey 1440/100=14,4 PPD - 133% (+ 33% to CV1/Vive)

 

Pimax8KX 3840/150=25,6 PPD - 237% (+137% to CV1/Vive)

 

So this is it with tech spec for comparison pixel density. I take CV1/Vive as referenc point for comparison so CV1 PD is value 0 and all other is compared to CV1/Vive. Also I add separately future Pimax8KX with 4K per eye and 200FOV you notice I use 150 to divide not 100 that is because of this basic 100 + 50 per eye (50left+50right+100basic=200FOV) for expanded FOV.

 

Just for your information human eye got 60PPD and aimed PPD for VR to reach close to monitor 1080p is 30PPD.

So Pixel density you should compare that way and you can get picture what you can expect from which VR but just in Pixel density area not in complete impresion because VR is combining all this aspects together PPD, SDE, refresh rate roomscale tracking or positional and directional tracking.

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SDE or ScreenDoor Effect is actually, I will call it, physical resolution of display and it is masured by PPI Pixel Per Inch in diagonal.

To get picture I will not mention you PPI for VR we previously compared with PD and will give you previev in some video comparison filmed true lens of ich VR. Have in mind that Maybe your impresion of SDE on some of those VR is completely different because it is practically impossible to film your personal impression but this is filmed by same camera under same condition and represent exact difference in SDE technically.

 

Also there is no Odessey here and we don't know exact PPI for it but compared to similar Samsung product we could expect PPI around 550 + or - by 10 so probably will be near Deepoon E3 with 2560x1440 530PPI on one of the videos.

 

DK2 - 380 PPI

CV1 - 460 PPI

Vive - 460 PPI

Deepoon E3 - 540 PPI

Pimax4K - 800 PPI

 

 

 

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The Oculus had smaller displays than the Vive, at the same resolution, which allowed the Vive to have a slightly larger FOV at the expense of clarity, because the space between pixels was larger the Rift. At this time, Clarity is more important than FOV with these relatively low resolution headsets. Which made the Rift a better option for flight sims.

 

People who recently tested the Oculus Santa Cruz Prototype 2 could be using a 2,560 × 1,440 Oled display with new Fresnel lenses. This new high end standalone headset with internal cpu, and 6DOF tracking could be released next year. Hopefully we will see a number of new highend VR devices next year from several companies.

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SDE or ScreenDoor Effect is actually, I will call it, physical resolution of display and it is masured by PPI Pixel Per Inch in diagonal.

That's strange everyone here seem to link SDE to the PPI, am I missing something?

I thought SDE was the space between pixels.

So if you have the same PPI (number of pixel) comparing two displays, the one with smaller pixels (size of pixels), indicating un-filled space between them, will have more noticeable SDE?

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SDE depends on the size of the screen and optics geometry inside the headset. You can have two headsets with identical screens, but if one has a screen closer to your face and different lenses, the SDE will be different. Or to be more precise, Field of View will be different. Display PPI is not a good way to compare headsets, because they can have different FOV, which will affect how the pixels are visible through the headset lenses.

 

Size of the pixel versus size of the space between pixels is yet another thing, that depends on the screen technology.


Edited by some1

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The Oculus had smaller displays than the Vive, at the same resolution, which allowed the Vive to have a slightly larger FOV at the expense of clarity, because the space between pixels was larger the Rift.

 

Actually Rift is using old Hack people used on DK1 and DK2 puting plastic foil on display. This bluring edges and reducing SDE but you can check on this videos when you comparing Vive and CV1, Vive have more sharper picture and CV1 edges is more melted with background. That is why on CV1 is harder to read instruments and spot targets in distance then on Vive. Reduced SDE give you clarity on CV1 but only on larger objects but on smaller objects, small detailes or small details in distance give you effect like you are shortsighted. And that is the major con on CV1.

 

So all this is sort of trade of like medication heal one problem but cosign other problem. My friend sell his CV1 and got Vive now and he do this just because he more like to deal with SDE for sharper picture and spoting targets in distance (His words) and he is satisfied.

 

Personally I think the difference is to small to justifies cost for that and with 400$ when you calculate all pro and cons CV1 is still bestbuy for now. Odysey and Pimax8KX have to prove them self in practical use first but the specks are promising but success on the market is not depending only on specs. Should be specs per $.

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SDE or ScreenDoor Effect is actually, I will call it, physical resolution of display and it is masured by PPI Pixel Per Inch in diagonal.

To get picture I will not mention you PPI for VR we previously compared with PD and will give you previev in some video comparison filmed true lens of ich VR. Have in mind that Maybe your impresion of SDE on some of those VR is completely different because it is practically impossible to film your personal impression but this is filmed by same camera under same condition and represent exact difference in SDE technically.

 

:protest:

 

Well I have said it before and will again, that is so not a fair representation of SDE in VR. Why? In these images one is not looking through in VR, but a flat image on a 2d screen. Actually had I see something like this back in Jan when I purchased my Rift, I may never have gotten it and would have missed out on so many incredible hours of gaming in VR. In fact I have no games any longer on my SSD that do not run in VR.

 

Unless one is obsessed with SDE and constantly staring at it in VR, it is not that noticeable. When I am flying combat flight sims in VR, I am looking out beyond the SDE - it is not in my focus. Same with other games I play in VR.

 

Yes I certainly look forward to the device than can bring us better resolution in VR with no SDE, but at least for me now with my Rift I will continue to enjoy the heck out of it, without giving hardly any thought to the SDE.

 

I certainly understand however, different strokes for different folks, and how one acclimates to it or not is totally individual preference.

Don B

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That's strange everyone here seem to link SDE to the PPI, am I missing something?

I thought SDE was the space between pixels.

So if you have the same PPI (number of pixel) comparing two displays, the one with smaller pixels (size of pixels), indicating un-filled space between them, will have more noticeable SDE?

 

PPI is only spec you can connect to the SDE and on displays it is exactly means this space you are talking about. Size of the display is matter to but on all this VR on market sizes are similar and minor differences exept for this windows MR (Lenovo, Acer, HP ...). They got beter PPD and PPI but smaler size.

Here we come to one more significant factor, Lens magnification.

As all of those VR using in fact standard lenses so got priority same magnification factor whot in the end because smaller display on Windows MR create lower FOV.

So for precise calculation to predict SDE you neet to take all 3 factor PPI, size and magnification.

Problem is I never see that someone mention magnification of the lenses in VR specs, we got only type of the lenses.

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:protest:

 

Well I have said it before and will again, that is so not a fair representation of SDE in VR. Why? In these images one is not looking through in VR, but a flat image on a 2d screen.

 

... will give you preview in some video comparison filmed true lens of ich VR. Have in mind that Maybe your impresion of SDE on some of those VR is completely different because it is practically impossible to film your personal impression but this is filmed by same camera under same condition and represent exact difference in SDE technically.

 

First of all read all then comment.

All this video is filmed under same condition, same 3D game and same scene for all VR so difference and 2D scam you are mention are ridiculous. Diference you see there is because 800 PPI Pimax4K display got. That is physical prove what I'm talking about and that is the facts proven by multiple occasion and testes you like it or not.

And repeating read all than comment, I was mention VR is more subjective impression af multiple factors and every individual experience it on different way. There is no perfect VR out there yet and all of them are trade of and it is depend on your individual preferences what you expect from VR. Some people can't stand SDE and will prefer Pimax, some not and prefere refresh rate and vivid colors and will prefer CV1 other trade all of this for room scaling experience and will prefere Vive and that's simply that.

 

I was not favoring any VR just was referring o to Pixel density and SDE based on facts and tech specs and it is not representing my personal subjective opinion like yours.

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First of all read all then comment.

I was not favoring any VR just was referring o to Pixel density and SDE based on facts and tech specs and it is not representing my personal subjective opinion like yours.

 

Read all my comment as well.

I pretty much stated it is everyone's subjective opinion.

 

I was just pointing out again, that seeing SDE shown like that on a 2d screen is no where near the same as what one may or may not see in VR. On the screen image, you are looking right at it in 2d. And obviously those images are shown to highlight the SDE. In VR, one can be looking far beyond it. There is a difference between the two, hence why I said it was not a fair representation of what one actually sees.

 

Some folks can't get beyond it. Some hardly notice it. I fall in the latter as many do.

And one is really not going to know their impression of it until they actually try it in VR.

 

But that is ok, we can agree to disagree.

:smilewink:

Don B

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For me this is end of this pointles discusion with you about opinion.

 

I mention the facts, row calculation based on technical specs not opinion just to people can figured out what to expect. This is not my opinion and don't want to affect on your believe. In my statemant there is nothing to agree or disagree it is just simple mat where numbers is always exact.

 

To the readers is to trust or not and I don't care. I just answer on question with simple numbers not opinion.

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Actually Rift is using old Hack people used on DK1 and DK2 puting plastic foil on display. This bluring edges and reducing SDE but you can check on this videos when you comparing Vive and CV1, Vive have more sharper picture and CV1 edges is more melted with background. That is why on CV1 is harder to read instruments and spot targets in distance then on Vive. Reduced SDE give you clarity on CV1 but only on larger objects but on smaller objects, small detailes or small details in distance give you effect like you are shortsighted. And that is the major con on CV1.

 

So all this is sort of trade of like medication heal one problem but cosign other problem. My friend sell his CV1 and got Vive now and he do this just because he more like to deal with SDE for sharper picture and spoting targets in distance (His words) and he is satisfied.

 

Personally I think the difference is to small to justifies cost for that and with 400$ when you calculate all pro and cons CV1 is still bestbuy for now. Odysey and Pimax8KX have to prove them self in practical use first but the specks are promising but success on the market is not depending only on specs. Should be specs per $.

 

Actually that's not my experience or most others experience comparing the Vive and Rift for clarity in flight sims. Both the Rift and Vive have the same resolution displays, BUT the Rift displays are smaller which pacts the same amount of pixels closer together. The same as a smaller television having a sharper picture than the larger television, when they both have the same resolution. Not to mention the smoother Rift Fresnel lenses. That said I'm looking forward to better headsets from Vive, Oculus, and others.

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Actually that's not my experience or most others experience comparing the Vive and Rift for clarity in flight sims. Both the Rift and Vive have the same resolution displays, BUT the Rift displays are smaller which pacts the same amount of pixels closer together. The same as a smaller television having a sharper picture than the larger television, when they both have the same resolution. Not to mention the smoother Rift Fresnel lenses. That said I'm looking forward to better headsets from Vive, Oculus, and others.

 

This size difference is insignificant because it to small to have major impact in end result which is depend on lens magnification as well. This is like difference between 5.2 and 5.5" displays. Difference is in margin of error and could be eliminated with just few mm closer or away from lens. It is like debating which GPU is better based on benchmark over 140 FPS with difference of just few frames.

 

VR is based on subjective experience so ve could have 3 different opinion based on same product from 3 different user. So everything I mention is based on calculations and tech specs. I'm repeating for who knows much time this video is not representing whot you will experiance when you put it on your head but showing exact difference under same condition filming with camera.

Also read description of the video where is everything explained in more details.

 

About monitors it is also depend on PPI and that is depend not just on size but on technologies too and it is not necessary larger size more PPI. It is Pixel per Inch and Inch is always the same size. Pimax prove that that 800 PPI is edge for noticeable SDE on displays 5 to 5.5" size. In this category come Vive and CV1 even they have around 3" displays but it is 2 of them and when you combine them in one it is in that size category.

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So to summarize . Yes the Odyssey has 32% greater pixel density (or PPD) than the Rift/Vive. That’s good to know because I wasn’t a fan of that level of SDE.

Man, time hasn’t moved this slow since I was a kid waiting for Christmas...

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This size difference is insignificant because it to small to have major impact in end result which is depend on lens magnification as well. This is like difference between 5.2 and 5.5" displays. Difference is in margin of error and could be eliminated with just few mm closer or away from lens. It is like debating which GPU is better based on benchmark over 140 FPS with difference of just few frames.

 

VR is based on subjective experience so ve could have 3 different opinion based on same product from 3 different user. So everything I mention is based on calculations and tech specs. I'm repeating for who knows much time this video is not representing whot you will experiance when you put it on your head but showing exact difference under same condition filming with camera.

Also read description of the video where is everything explained in more details.

 

About monitors it is also depend on PPI and that is depend not just on size but on technologies too and it is not necessary larger size more PPI. It is Pixel per Inch and Inch is always the same size. Pimax prove that that 800 PPI is edge for noticeable SDE on displays 5 to 5.5" size. In this category come Vive and CV1 even they have around 3" displays but it is 2 of them and when you combine them in one it is in that size category.

 

The difference is in the details. Its the small details that make the difference in two close products like the Vive and Rift. I chose the Rift for Flight Sims because the clarity, comfort, price, etc were better. Most users and reviewers found that they preferred the Rift for flight sims, and racers, and the Vive for other types of games, especially before the Rift had controllers.

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So is FOV measured on the diagonal or horizontal? The Samsung graphic indicates it is measured horizontally. That would change the math.


Edited by Thick8

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How SDE is related to the resolution, isn't it related only to the distance between the pixels ?

 

Like more and smaller pixels, more noticable distance between them ?

 

Do you know at all how display work at all? I just wonder when you will join to troll.

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How SDE is related to the resolution, isn't it related only to the distance between the pixels ?

 

Like more and smaller pixels, more noticable distance between them ?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen-door_effect

Don B

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Thanks for the link.

Trying to understand how pure increase in resolution will make the distance between pixels or sde less noticable.

 

Using simple logic, having more and smaller pixels with the same distance between them should make it even more noticeable.

I think there should be either better quality display with less distance between pixels or another approach to workaround this issue.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Samsung Odyssey has about 77% more "pixels" than Oclus rift or HTC Vive.

1440*1600*2 = 4608000 vs 1080*1200*2=2592000

This is bigger improvement than going from DK2 to CV1 (DK2 had 960*1080*2=2073600 "pixels")

I say "pixels" because DK2, CV1, Vive and probably Odyssey don't have three subpixels (RGB), as any decent screen should, instead they sell you a screen with half red and blue sub pixels missing.

https://www.oled-info.com/pentile

They way they solve missing sub pixels is simple, they just use the neighboring subpixel.

This works okay when you hold a phone in your hand, but when you put on in vr headset, you see quite bad screen door effect (sub pixels that should turn on are simply not there).

 

 

Still, sheer resolution increase will probably make this look like next gen compared to cv1 and vive, hope that they can sort out tracking properly.

This headset is not much closer to solving screen door effect properly (unless it's an RGB screen), since those blue and red sub pixels are often needed.

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