D-Scythe Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 It's not an alternative, it's still used alongside when precision is just too expensive.. I watched it 3 times in '99. That's a bit unfair - I doubt any body carpet bombed a city in '99. Carpet bombing (eps. with MK84s) used against army positions in the field is a psychological tactic...carpet bombing in a city just kills people, maybe even galvanize people (including your countries public) to stop supporting your war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 I believe the reference is to bombardment with cluster munititions in the mountains which did happen. The issue isn't so much that they were trying to bomb military positions at that time - the issue is the UXO that is left over. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tflash Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Oh, guys, please don't. This thread is going downhill fast for no reason. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force_Feedback Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Okay, I'll be asking this question again, what parts of the mig-29M2/35/Ubermig/Wecan'tmakeupagoodnameforourMig are composite? The airbrake, chute flairing (not sure of it has a brake chute), TVC actuator covers, the canopy :P, LEFs, flaps, ailerons, vertical stabs, horizontal stabs. What else is made out of plastic? Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 D-Scythe and GGTHaros, has any of you been a live-witness of a real bomb raid? Some things can't be found in books nor magazines, they are not shown on CNN neither. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Scythe Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 In Jane's F-15, the MiG-35 was always my favorite thing to hunt. I'd go up every MiGCAP and just float around, letting my wingmen kill all the other bandits while I perched above the battle. Then the -35s eventually showed up and I would jump 'em :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nscode Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 I believe the reference is to bombardment with cluster munititions in the mountains which did happen. The issue isn't so much that they were trying to bomb military positions at that time - the issue is the UXO that is left over. No.. not the clusters (but what you say is totally correct.. just last weak I've read a kid being injured by one). The refinery here was bombed with waves of B-52s dropping "dumb" bombs. It wasn't carped bombing in the true meaning it had in WWII (where you bombed an entire city in order to hit a single factory... maybe) - targeting is more advanced now, but they did target a whole area (let's say.. hmm... like 5-10 football fields) rather than specific objects. Each time near-by houses were damaged. I'm not saying that civilian casualties are not less now than in days when precision strikes weren't used, because that simply isn't the case. I'm just saying that I believe that fact is not a result of it being a goal of those doing the strikes. just a note on the clusters - "we" used them too in Bosnia... and I'm just as angry at my own military doing it to someone other as I am to someone doing it to me. :chair: Oh, guys, please don't. This thread is going downhill fast for no reason.ok... no more :pain: :) this was just to clear up some things I've mentioned edit: just some data I found about the refinery... during the 78 days it was targeted 12 times, with a total of 255 bombs. about 70 000 tons of oil burned (a small percentage of what those tanks can store.. most of it was pumped out when things got hot) http://vojvodina.srbija-info.yu/posledice/privreda/rafinerija_NS.jpg damaged house: http://vojvodina.srbija-info.yu/posledice/zgrade/Sangaj.jpg (the board sayes '7th street', the one closest to refinery) Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 No.. not the clusters (but what you say is totally correct.. just last weak I've read a kid being injured by one). The refinery here was bombed with waves of B-52s dropping "dumb" bombs. It wasn't carped bombing in the true meaning it had in WWII (where you bombed an entire city in order to hit a single factory... maybe) - targeting is more advanced now, but they did target a whole area (let's say.. hmm... like 5-10 football fields) rather than specific objects. Each time near-by houses were damaged. See, that's the kinda stuff they don't let us see over here. :mad: I'm not saying that civilian casualties are not less now than in days when precision strikes weren't used, because that simply isn't the case. I'm just saying that I believe that fact is not a result of it being a goal of those doing the strikes. I would think it is just economical - you can accomplish your goals with less bombs and aircraft, thus less money ... that the civilian casualties are smaller is just a bonus I guess. JDAMs will improve the 'less casualties' thing further, for the same reasons. You can destroy your target in one or two sorties pretty reliably, without hitting 'empty space'. just a note on the clusters - "we" used them too in Bosnia... and I'm just as angry at my own military doing it to someone other as I am to someone doing it to me. :chair: Yeah. We love'em in-game, in reality they are a nightmare. ok... no more :pain: :) this was just to clear up some things I've mentioned Yeah we were only discussing factual stuff anyway. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Okay, I'll be asking this question again, what parts of the mig-29M2/35/Ubermig/Wecan'tmakeupagoodnameforourMig are composite? The airbrake, chute flairing (not sure of it has a brake chute), TVC actuator covers, the canopy :P, LEFs, flaps, ailerons, vertical stabs, horizontal stabs. What else is made out of plastic? Im bumping this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 D-Scythe and GGTHaros, has any of you been a live-witness of a real bomb raid? Some things can't be found in books nor magazines, they are not shown on CNN neither. We know more than you think (we have our own eyes you know). Yeah NATO commanders sent bombing missions near your homes and make them rock to the foundations, hit refugees columns thinking they were armoured vehicles, hit a train as it went on a bridge and some bombs were riplled were thrown out of their paths by the first bombs explosions ending in a hopital or an apartment building, we got those news as well. We also saw the bombing of oil refineries at the gates of your cities. But we are also a far cry from carpet bombings of the old days and the thousands of victims they claimed to get just 1 target. wich would be the rule to this day if it wasnt for precision wepons. Of course "precision" is relative because the bomb doesnt only destroy where it hits but a large area arround it, and they get to miss too. Soft targets will naturaly suffer. So while every time a new precise weapon comes out you wont jump out of happiness and celebrate it but you can also respect the fact no one was there to enjoy making your lives miserable like it used to be in other times. You got a chance to grow as a country without having to wait generations to replenish the population. But why does it have to come to this to overcome "Migs sux" symdrome every single time? :D [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nscode Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Yeah... and I already said all that above ;) But why does it have to come to this to overcome "Migs sux" symdrome every single time? To get an answer to that, remember what was the goal of creating AK-47. Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 We know more than you think (we have our own eyes you know). Yeah NATO commanders sent bombing missions near your homes and make them rock to the foundations, Have you ever felt your house rock by explosions?... It's easy to have the eyes and the ears to watch it on the TV while having a diner with your family and then say "I know everything about it." Because you don't and I wish you that never know what's it like. ...hit refugees columns thinking they were armoured vehicles, hit a train as it went on a bridge and some bombs were riplled were thrown out of their paths by the first bombs explosions ending in a hopital or an apartment building, we got those news as well. We also saw the bombing of oil refineries at the gates of your cities. For you this might be only a headline in the evening news. For some people this has been the last thing that they have seen in their lives. But why does it have to come to this to overcome "Migs sux" symdrome every single time? :D I have no idea what syndrom you're talking about. My reaction is due to how some people talk about RL bombing like it's something we do in Lock-On or any other sim. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Okay, I'll be asking this question again, what parts of the mig-29M2/35/Ubermig/Wecan'tmakeupagoodnameforourMig are composite? The airbrake, chute flairing (not sure of it has a brake chute), TVC actuator covers, the canopy :P, LEFs, flaps, ailerons, vertical stabs, horizontal stabs. What else is made out of plastic? In the base 9-12A the composite materials are 6% of the a/c's dry weight. I know the rudders, the ailerons the radiostransparent nose are from carbon fiber, not sure for other parts though. But what you listed is quiet possible to be made of composite materials, except for the elevator and vertical fins. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nscode Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I watched real bombing while having dinner :D Not a smart thing to do.. but after a week or so the initial shock goes away and you need to continue living as close to what you normaly do as you can if you want to survive it psychologicaly. Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vati Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 D-Scythe and GGTHaros, has any of you been a live-witness of a real bomb raid? What? How do you dare questioning them.. they did it all.. flew F22, F15, Su27.. shoot AMRAAMs and Alamos and whatnot.. Not to mention Pilotasso was there too, so that they could test datalink AMRAAM launch vs Mig35... sheesh, give some respect AirTito to these guys... (Disclaimer: this is a tongue-in-cheek post, any similarities with the real persons are purely coincidental) http://www.condorsoaring.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Scythe Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 What? How do you dare questioning them.. they did it all.. flew F22, F15, Su27.. shoot AMRAAMs and Alamos and whatnot.. Not to mention Pilotasso was there too, so that they could test datalink AMRAAM launch vs Mig35... sheesh, give some respect AirTito to these guys... (Disclaimer: this is a tongue-in-cheek post, any similarities with the real persons are purely coincidental) That's what I'm talking about! Thank you :thumbdown: So...how bout them rivets on the -35? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I hope to god they implemented the jumbo sized 40oz slurpee cupholders in this MiG this time. Gets kind of old having a pot of coffee spill in your lap pulling 8g's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 What? How do you dare questioning them.. they did it all.. flew F22, F15, Su27.. shoot AMRAAMs and Alamos and whatnot.. Not to mention Pilotasso was there too, so that they could test datalink AMRAAM launch vs Mig35... sheesh, give some respect AirTito to these guys... (Disclaimer: this is a tongue-in-cheek post, any similarities with the real persons are purely coincidental) Tito doesnt need that kind of help... I gave him all the due respect, and your atittude is out of the line and totaly needless. Your the one who needs to pay more respect to EVERYONE by not pulling off comments of this bad taste. [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force_Feedback Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 The Su-30 has some kind of shitter in the ejection seats, so remember, next time you see them K-36s, shit can be ejected as well :D Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 The Su-30 has some kind of shitter in the ejection seats, so remember, next time you see them K-36s, shit can be ejected as well :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudikoff Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I watched real bombing while having dinner :D Not a smart thing to do.. but after a week or so the initial shock goes away and you need to continue living as close to what you normaly do as you can if you want to survive it psychologicaly. This has really gone too far. Can you stop making yourself such a victim? Those bombs were not targeted at civilian targets, some of them missed and some people got killed unfortunately. But that number is far less of the number of the people died by the planes and tanks sent a few years earlier by the president of your country to attack the neighbouring countries which WERE aiming the civilian population. I experienced those attacks so I find your constant whining about the NATO attacks rather hypocritical. Should I also whine all the time at your posts if I run out of arguments in a discussion? I mean, really.. i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg. DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?). Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TucksonSonny Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 You have chocolate and good Belgium chocolate! You have cars and good European cars! You have Microsoft and good software! You have D-Scythe/GGTharos and good ED Testers! You have fighter planes and good Russian fighter planes! (I am back on topic) :D D-Scythe: If you read this: relax man, this is just a joke all right? :D 1 DELL Intel® Core™ i7 Processor 940 2,93 GHz @3 GHz, 8 MB cache | 8.192 MB 1.067 MHz Tri Channel DDR3 | 512 MB ATI® Radeon™ 4850 | 500 GB 7200 rpm Serial ATA | Samsung SM 2693 HM 25.5 " | HOTAS Cougar Thrustmaster | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Sigh ;) If player = TucksonSonny then: Disable Jammer LimitMissilesTo1G LimitPLaneto4G EnableMadCockpitLaughter ;) You have chocolate and good Belgium chocolate! You have cars and good European cars! You have Microsoft and good software! You have D-Scythe/GGTharos and good ED Testers! You have fighter planes and good Russian fighter planes! (I am back on topic) :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Scythe Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 You have D-Scythe/GGTharos and good ED Testers! :D K, I could honestly care less about your opinion of me...but don't jump to conclusions about the ED beta team on my behalf. All views expressed here are my own. They invest tons of their OWN time for free, and contrary to what you might think, beta testing is not all sunshine and puppies - it's *work.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 You have chocolate and good Belgium chocolate! You have cars and good European cars! You have Microsoft and good software! You have D-Scythe/GGTharos and good ED Testers! You have fighter planes and good Russian fighter planes! (I am back on topic) :D yes belgium chocolate is very good. I Like Toblerone alot, though it hurts my gums when chewing those triangles :D [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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