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DCS and Pimax


Wags

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After listening to the latest reviews, I am unclear how you will launch DCS (non Steam), it looks like it has to be either a Oculus or Steam VR game to launch from the PITools software that goes with the headset. Anyone hear/know about DCS being used (non Steam) with PIMAX?

 

Based on the video posted above launching the sim will be the least of your worries when it comes to DCS.

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There is one more thing to take in consideration. Real 4K resolution per eye as native res on 60Hz.

 

This will increase clarity on 8K as native resolution works best for displays and need less SS. So 8K could reach even better clarity and 60Hz will not be a problem in DCS.

Pimax4K shows that. He didn't have the problem with 60Hz, the problem was input lag which creates ghosting and that was a major problem on Pimax4K model.

With Brain warp, even 30FPS will be playable in that case.

 

What do you mean real 4k solution @ 60hz? Is this an option on the 8k?

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Here's a comparison shot I found, someone else posted, so that you can see the difference in the image quality and SDE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the same video, the reviewer mentioned that he preferred the 8K for targeting distant planes, but 5K+ was easier for the HUD. But that going to 1.5 rendering on PiTool made it just as clear. Of course, that means you'll need more horsepower. Today, the NDA expires, so there should be much more reviews coming out. Right now, I'm leaning towards 8K since it does have higher native resolution, even if it has to be down/up sampled. But the 5K+ *does* have clearer image.

 

 

 

I keep waffling on my decision. Will investigate some more.

hsb

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I don't understand why everybody said that the 8k will be better for spotting, it is going to be the opposite because we are going to have a blurry upscaled pixel instead of a downscale pixel. Our problems with the current sporting system are because the pixels are blurry with the blue sky (what should be a dark spot ends up being a light dark blue pixel).

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Here's a comparison shot I found, someone else posted, so that you can see the difference in the image quality and SDE.

This pic makes me wanna switch from 8K to 5K+ actually. The clarity seems to be really nice if that image shows a valid comparison.

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Here's a very good review of what DCS'ers will care about:

 

 

http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/5k-or-8k-my-test-of-m2-through-pictures-of-aerofly-fs2-project-cars-and-virtual-desktop/8249/24

 

 

If you read the comments, the OP posted the picture to a RAR file. When you go to the RAR file, on the top, you'll see the traditional download icon. Great to see the pictures side by side.

 

 

 

Now, I'm back on the 5K+ team. LOL.

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See 2:25:20

 

 

 

 

As expected, DCS is too much even for the highest end system you can build.

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See 2:25:20

 

 

 

 

As expected, DCS is too much even for the highest end system you can build.

 

Granted he showed his PD at 2.0... so take that with a grain of salt too. I do expect DCS to perform worse, but a PD of 1.0 should be 1440p in theory, upping that value even to 1.5 will be much larger than current oculus/vive resolutions (ok maybe not vive pro) assuming the driver/api dictates to DCS the native resolution of the device.

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What do you mean real 4k solution @ 60hz? Is this an option on the 8k?

 

 

Two weeks ago on Berlin Backers event Pimax confirm how they are working on software support to make available 4K native resolution per eye but the limit will be 60 and 72 Hz.

A major goal is to be able watching movies but in my opinion should be good even for game playing too.

 

Previous experience with DCS on Pimax4K was more or less positive. the 4K model problem was ghosting and not that much fact they were working on 60Hz. Ghosting comes from bad input lag and general picture refresh in Pimax4K display who work on HMDI 1.4.

This hardware in Pimax8K is now much better and capable to work in 4K native resolution on 60Hz without ghosting.

 

So we could expect in near future this 4K native resolution will be unlocked but as it is working on only one DP they can't run higher than 60 and 72Hz.

 

Pimax8KX will be a future model who coming later with native 4K per eye on 90Hz but will using different electronics and will have dual DP connection to achieve that performance.

 

So we have a potentially same level of clarity as a 5K model but in 4K native resolution.

That is why I will wait a little bit more with that decision 5K or 8K model. In the worst case will be great to watch porn in 4K.

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Granted he showed his PD at 2.0... so take that with a grain of salt too. I do expect DCS to perform worse, but a PD of 1.0 should be 1440p in theory, upping that value even to 1.5 will be much larger than current oculus/vive resolutions (ok maybe not vive pro) assuming the driver/api dictates to DCS the native resolution of the device.

 

Good observation! :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

I'd bet at PD1.2 it would run a lot better. It would be a better experience if Pimax would implement something like ASW. Time will tell.


Edited by DerekSpeare

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Good observation! :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

I'd bet at PD1.2 it would run a lot better. It would be a better experience if Pimax would implement something like ASW. Time will tell.

 

They are working on something called Brainwarp... or something to that effect, something I will always turn off, I hate ASW.

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Two weeks ago on Berlin Backers event Pimax confirm how they are working on software support to make available 4K native resolution per eye but the limit will be 60 and 72 Hz.

A major goal is to be able watching movies but in my opinion should be good even for game playing too.

 

Previous experience with DCS on Pimax4K was more or less positive. the 4K model problem was ghosting and not that much fact they were working on 60Hz. Ghosting comes from bad input lag and general picture refresh in Pimax4K display who work on HMDI 1.4.

This hardware in Pimax8K is now much better and capable to work in 4K native resolution on 60Hz without ghosting.

 

So we could expect in near future this 4K native resolution will be unlocked but as it is working on only one DP they can't run higher than 60 and 72Hz.

 

Pimax8KX will be a future model who coming later with native 4K per eye on 90Hz but will using different electronics and will have dual DP connection to achieve that performance.

 

So we have a potentially same level of clarity as a 5K model but in 4K native resolution.

That is why I will wait a little bit more with that decision 5K or 8K model. In the worst case will be great to watch porn in 4K.

 

 

I'm thinking that I'll get the 5K+ so I can get clarity and smooth FPS. Then after about a year or so, end of next year, a newer Rift will be announced. And I can jump ship. If I order the 8K now, it'll look nicer (less SDE for example) but by the time I can use native 2X 4K, the GPU will become the bottleneck.

 

 

 

We'll see. I have some time before they ping me about what I want to do.

hsb

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Here's a comparison shot I found, someone else posted, so that you can see the difference in the image quality and SDE.

 

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=194152&d=1537196259

 

 

Yep, that image from the sweviver review is what really has me leaning heavily toward the 5K+. It won't be too long before an even better VR headset comes out so even if they do something with the 8k upscaler that makes it look better something else won't be far off.


Edited by StandingCow

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Yep, that image from the survivor review is what really has me leaning heavily toward the 5K+...
...a photo speaks volumes... Thanks for the Info. Have to rethink a purchase twice now.

 

I guess I'll wait a while to see in which price category this new Starvr One will be, with the unparalleled natural field of view of 210° horizontal and 130° vertical.

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Like I said before with all my respect to Sweviver work he is not dedicated DCS player so take all of his reviews related to DCS with a grain of salt.

For more detailed and precise review related to DCS performances, we have to wait for some of our DCS community backers to receive their HMD to see how it is work.

 

There is one other solution. Pimax offers ED cooperation on this hardware. ED accepted but we don't know how far it was gone or just stay on this first contact initiative.

My point is we should force somehow Pimax and ED to send 8K and 5K specimens to Wags on proper evaluation related to DCS. I believe only that way we could get proper preview even for backers to decide which one to chose.

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Preorders will be opened in October. First orders will be shipped in January 2019 after all backers will be fulfilled. On free market somewhere in q1 2019.

 

 

So you think all backer orders will be fulfilled by January ? Just curious as I'm backer 2611 :)

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Yep, that image from the sweviver review is what really has me leaning heavily toward the 5K+. It won't be too long before an even better VR headset comes out so even if they do something with the 8k upscaler that makes it look better something else won't be far off.

 

 

Wait for a while. No time to rush with a tricky decision.

5K offers better clarity on what this picture showing and proving the claim that text is more readable on 5K but on horizon 8K is better what effecting on better target spotting.

 

So this is all factors to considering in DCS usage. Easier instruments and HUD reading vs distance target spoting?

 

To be, or not to be? This is the question now.

I will leave this after some experience and more detailed review related to DCS or similar games specifically.

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So you think all backer orders will be fulfilled by January ? Just curious as I'm backer 2611 smile.gif

 

 

Berlin was turning point. There Pimax got approval from backers that with Hardware side Pimax8K and 5k+ is ready to go in production. No more Hardware changes. On Software size, they have some few upgrades but this is not effecting on Hardware production.

As they say, they will start production for fulfilling backers and they hope will finish till Christmas. I'm just quoting, not my opinion.

Also, they confirm starting taking preorders in October. So this preorders will start shipping after Backers so that is after New Year.

 

This is just my calculation based on available proven informations and I think will be a correct one.

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MRTV was getting decent fps on 5K+ in Elite Dangerous and Project Cars 2 at PiTool 1.0 / SteamSS 100%, Sweviver demonstrated that you don't need SteamSS at 100% for the 5K+ so if SteamSS was brought down to 50% and in-game PD set to like 1.5 /1.6, we could probably get good FPS... on a current high-end rig

 

SteamSS is the same as the PD in game. If you set the in-game at 1.5 the number of pixels painted will be the same as if you set Steam SS at 1.5.

He claimed that the 8K will be better to spot far bandits but we know that with hight PD it's actually more difficult. He also said that incrementing the SteamSS to 1.5 (equal to PD 1.5) the image of the 8K will be equal to the image on the 5k+ (but the performance will be far worst).

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Are we sure that a PD of 1.0 is always the native resolution of the headset?

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