DCS and Pimax

[Phantom88]

With the last version of the PiTool nothing has changed regarding the problem with the stuttering/warping of the landscape when rolling an looking to the sides.:(

Try changing some of your settings,also did Pitool update the firmware also?

[hansangb]

With the last version of the PiTool nothing has changed regarding the problem with the stuttering/warping of the landscape when rolling an looking to the sides.:(

 

latest beta or latest GA? There is a big difference.

[ram0506]

Latest Beta 1.0.1.129.

And yes, there was also an update of the firmware.

Changing the settings in game doesn't change anything regarding the problem, even on lowest settings.

I think I will give up the Pimax. Since I own the device I almost stopped playing DCS because it is unplayable for me. Maybe I will try the Rift S.

[Tallguy]

Here also running with .129, pitool @2 an PD in DCS @2. Running quite smooth!

[pegon]

Latest Beta 1.0.1.129.

And yes, there was also an update of the firmware.

Changing the settings in game doesn't change anything regarding the problem, even on lowest settings.

I think I will give up the Pimax. Since I own the device I almost stopped playing DCS because it is unplayable for me. Maybe I will try the Rift S.

 

Strange, i have a 1080, running at 100% ss and getting steady 45 fps. Have you tried reinstalling DCS ?

[ram0506]

I am also getting stable fps, 36 in my case in 72Hz mode. DCS is smooth as long as I don`t roll the aircraft. Flying straight ahead and looking to the sides is in fact smooth. Problems start, when rolling the aircraft. See this thread:https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=239146.

Sorry, if I wrote about problems with "stuttering", maybe ghosting is the better expression for the effect I am seeing.

I never had that problem with the Rift. I think the problem is related to Pimax`s Smart Smoothing. But without SS DCS is even worse.

Edited May 8, 2019 by ram0506

[13WELT_JankeS]

I know exactly what you write about. I know that pain. You can set FOV to small and the effect when rotating is the same. Maybe after the update DCS will squeeze over 64fps and then it will be possible to set the goggles to 64Hz and bypass smartsmoothing. I think that eventually Pimax programmers will deal with it, but it is not known whether and how long it will take.

[SneakyBastd]

Hi all. Just got my 5k+ and tried it for the first time on DCS. I was concerned about getting a playable framerate, but it's running quite well! I'm getting over 40fps on our multiplayer server. Usually 45-50 if higher up. This is with no real experimentation yet for more fps. Normal fov, 100% in pitool and steamvr. So I'm happily surprised!

The fov really is damn nice to have, and everything is a little crisper and clearer than my vive. So if you're worried you don't have a 2080Ti, it's definitely not a required piece of kit.

 

7700K@5ghz, 16GB 3600mhz, 1080Ti.

[hansangb]

Hi all. Just got my 5k+ and tried it for the first time on DCS. I was concerned about getting a playable framerate, but it's running quite well! I'm getting over 40fps on our multiplayer server. Usually 45-50 if higher up. This is with no real experimentation yet for more fps. Normal fov, 100% in pitool and steamvr. So I'm happily surprised!

The fov really is damn nice to have, and everything is a little crisper and clearer than my vive. So if you're worried you don't have a 2080Ti, it's definitely not a required piece of kit.

 

7700K@5ghz, 16GB 3600mhz, 1080Ti.

 

 

Which Pitool version are you using?

[SneakyBastd]

I'm using 1.0.1.129_212 atm. The installer seems broken though, because I ran pitool after installation and one of the screens said I only had a partial install! I couldn't get the headset to work.

So I uninstalled it, put on 1.0.1.91, and then installed 1.0.1.129_212 over the top of it again.

It updated my firmware to 2.1.255.212.

 

It works well in DCS (which is my only real concern). But some games like Everest won't work. It comes up double vision. I enable Parallel Projections, and the screen is just blank. TheBlue won't work at all, even though the mirror to 2D screen DOES come up, the headset is again, blank. Welcome to pimax software I guess? lol. Other games, like The Lab, run perfectly.

[Rosebud47]

Yeah, the Pimax Software still is in developement.

 

With this new Pitool beta version, there is a file, named something like "steamvr_setup_exe" which is recognized by the Windows Defender as Virus or Trojan and not installed.

But this file is needed, in order to SteamVR could recognize the Pimax HMD.

 

Try to deactivate Windows Defender or AntiVirus Program and reinstall the new Pitool Beta, or put this file on a white list, so Windows Defender allows the installation.

... I´m not sure what the exact name of this file/ .exe was ....

[SneakyBastd]

Thanks for that Voight.

I've read about people trying different render resolutions, like 0.5 in pitool and 200% in steamvr. Is this still recommended for... reasons? If it's a little more efficient one way or the other, I'll happily take it.

[Rosebud47]

The prefered settings are difficult to tell, respectively not to answer generally.

At the moment I´m running with Pitool 0.5, SteamVr 150% and DCS PD 1.3 MSAAx2.

Lefenuste and other prefer Pitool 2.0, SteamVR 20%, ...

 

Try to find a setting, which suits best to your personal preferences on graphical fidelity and system performance.

 

I believe, that PD setting and MSAA in DCS is most effective to improve the graphics, but also most demanding on performance. Pitool settings at 2.0 are also impressive in imrpoving the graphics, but also demanding. SteamVR settings are more finetuning, when youßve found a compromise between Pitool setting and DCS PD setting, in my opinion, maybe other see it not in the same opinion and are right... performance in DCS really depends on so many things, like mirrors in the cockpit, shadows, level of tree, etc. etc.

 

What I observed so far form the comments on this topic is, that people with highly overclocked CPU, like approx 5 GHz, always could go far better with settings to improve the visual quality, while remaining stable performance.

 

For measuring the performance I use fpsVR, which is very useful and could be downloaded from steam for a very small fee.

 

With any setting in any case, I try to be below 20ms frametime, which gives me the feeling of a smooth experience in the cockpit in every situation.

 

The funny thing is, that for me the settings are right while testing, when I can´t stop flying and enjoying the landscape, feeling of speed and enjoying the visuals in and outside the cockpit.

When the settings don´t fit to me, I only stay a few moments i the cockpit and go on trying a lower setting on any of the set-screws.

 

BTW: if you have managed to install the new Pitool Beta, there is a new Option to activate Pitool for Vive Games, I guess with this activated theBlu and Everest will run again on the Pimax.

[funkyfranky]

With any setting in any case, I try to be below 20ms frametime, which gives me the feeling of a smooth experience in the cockpit in every situation.

Sorry, just to be sure as some of us are really struggling, when you put the aircraft in a fast roll, you have no judder/ghosting at all or it simply does not bother you?

 

I'm trying to find out if there is any magic bullet I and others have missed to far ;) I have a good system and no problems with constant high FPS but still observe this.

[Buckeye]

I am also getting stable fps, 36 in my case in 72Hz mode. DCS is smooth as long as I don`t roll the aircraft. Flying straight ahead and looking to the sides is in fact smooth. Problems start, when rolling the aircraft. See this thread:https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=239146.

Sorry, if I wrote about problems with "stuttering", maybe ghosting is the better expression for the effect I am seeing.

I never had that problem with the Rift. I think the problem is related to Pimax`s Smart Smoothing. But without SS DCS is even worse.

 

Check to see if you have LightingService.exe running in your Task Manager. If you do, kill that process and you'll be good to go.

[funkyfranky]

Check to see if you have LightingService.exe running in your Task Manager. If you do, kill that process and you'll be good to go.

I don't have that process running but still the same issues as ram mentioned.

[Rosebud47]

Just want to share some new findings to improve performance ( in VR ):

It´s actually not a new finding to overclock the CPU, but I was really astonished of the effect in DCS with VR.

Last time I´d overclocked a CPU was ten years ago - never felt the necessity to do so until now with the Pimax in DCS.

Also with big thanks to "DCSHeliflieger" for this advice, I´ve set Windows to Ultimate Power setting, but can´t say now, of which the VR experience benfits more: overclocking or Windows Ultimate Power setting.

 

Figures and impression.

Got i7 5820K, MSI X99a SLI Plus Board and MSI 2080Ti.

 

Before more overclocking, the CPU runs at 3.8GHZ at approx 55°C at a frametime of approx 17-18ms, the GPU runs at average 19ms frametime at approx 65°C.

 

Found agood guide in the internet for overclocking and overclocked the CPU at a full moon night past midnight in presence of a toad to 4.2 GHz beside some Mainboard optimization of the RAM frequencies.

 

Now the GPU runs at approx 80°C and 15-16ms frametime and the CPU at 60°C and 13-14ms frametime.

 

Visually the ghosting is mostly gone, when watching the ground buildings in low level flight. Ghosting is there, when your in external view and surrounding the view very fast with the mouse with your jet or helicopter in center. But in the cockpit ghosting is much more less than before optimizing the system and overclocking the CPU.

Also now there are no peaks in frametime. I guess the peaks in frametime accompanied by stutters in game resulted of respectively lower frequencies to RAM and CPU.

Now DCS is really smooth and very fast experience in VR. The only thing left are some shimmering edges here and there. I guess with the coming update/ VR optimization for the maps, supersampling could be increased for better antialiasing in VR.

 

It´s no secret, that DCS performance depends very much on the CPU, but the good performance improvement in VR by simply overclocking the CPU/ optimizing the system is astonishing.

[dburne]

Yeah currently nothing really beats CPU clock speed for performance in flight sims, been that way for long as I can remember.

The other stuff - GPU speed, Ram speed and latency - certainly help also, but CPU helps the greatest of these.

[Rosebud47]

Yeah currently nothing really beats CPU clock speed for performance in flight sims, been that way for long as I can remember.

The other stuff - GPU speed, Ram speed and latency - certainly help also, but CPU helps the greatest of these.

 

Didn´t played computer games for years, but virtual reality brought me back into electronic entertainment. Unfortunately nearly all of the VR games are kiddy stuff.

Approx a year ago I discovered DCS, which is now the only thing I enjoy with growing enthusiasm, technically and with all DCS offers. Also played a lot of FlightSims back at a time, in which Nerds were truly intelligent people.

[sohei]

DCS is pretty much the only thing I play now (excepting the occasional binge session of Kingdom Come:Deliverance) and I too get tremendous satisfaction from learning the systems that are fully accurate to those in real life. I'm really looking forwards to the point where he have fast smooth, high def VR combat flying. :pilotfly:

[Rosebud47]

Please don´t get me wrong, here are more friendly people, who could differentiate, than in any other forum.

But most complaints seem to be related to personal expectations, than on any other.

FlightSims in common and DCS in particular is not a 3D-shooter, at least when it comes to performance.

At the time of Falcon 4.0 and Pentium CPUs, software was always ahead of hardware capabilities.

Virtual Reality brought us exactly back to this point, but some now complaining the delevopers or the hardware manufacturers so much for it, in a way of shitstorming, like meanwhile common practice in the internet.

For VR it doesn´t make so much sense to hunt for FPS with current state of hardware. VR HMDs fix the FPS in anyway or ASW and Reprojection cut the FPS into half and fix the FPS.

Anyways... personally I enjoy DCS very much. Performance and visual quality in VR gets better constantly due to developement. I wouldn´t like to ruin my hobby for me and others by always looking for complaints which neither really value nor make sense at all.

Edited May 13, 2019 by - Voight -

[witwas]

After reading this section i am a bit tempted to take the plunge into pimax. But a few questions still remain.

 

Is it even possible to use the pimax with a 1080 card (the 8g version)?, my CPU is a 7700 (this seems ok).

 

Do i need lighthouses for DCS (or only for non sitting games)?

[Bob_Bushman]

I have already oc'd my CPU from 3.2ghz stock to run at 4.7ghz fixed on all cores.

 

That's a very moderate oc for my i7 8700k but I couldn't really tell much difference between that and 4.9ghz.

 

And for a daily, gaming desktop I rather stay <75c for ease of mind.

To go higher I most likely would have to relief, get some of that liquid stuff in there.

And then it's also a huge IF wether or not my mother board could supply reliable voltages as needed.

 

So I'm just sticking with 4.7ghz.

 

I suppose the performance in the 5k is on.

But there is that issue with the double vision on roll, it's beyond jarring, to the point where I just use my rift for simming and the 5k for room scale stuff.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Bob_Bushman

[Rosebud47]

@Bob

Oh wow, from 3.2 GHz to 4.9 GHz is really courageous. I´m currently at 4.2 GHZ, maybe the I7 5820k CPU could be oc´ed to 4.5 GHZ, but that would be for sure the end of the line. But I´m very happy with the plus on performance through overclocking.

 

@witwas

The Pimax could be also used without Lighthouses, but then there will be only 3DOF headmovement tracking instead of 6DOF roomscale tracking. 3DOF could work fine with DCS, you could move your head around and the movement will be translated into DCS by the internal gyroscope. With the lighthouse external sensors it´s different, much more natural experience. So, lighthouses are strongly recommended to enjoy VR.

 

Running the Pimax with a 1080 might be not a big problem for other VR games or application than DCS. If you´re planning to upgrade the 1080 to a 2080/Ti you could get happy with the Pimax, but with the 1080 and Pimax, I would say, that you don´t get happy with this combination for DCS.

The difference in pixelfilling rate between the 1080 and 2080 is not so much in FUllHD resolution - for sure the newer 2080 is better at respectively low resolution. But at high resolution beyond FullHD, the RTX cards release a lot more power in pixelfilling rate and the gap between GTX and RTX cards get wider, the higher the resolution is, the cards have to render. The Pimax native resolution is already very high compared to the other state of the art VR headsets. When adding supersampling to the Pimax the pixel filling rate is massive.

To really enjoy DCS with the Pimax a RTX card might be more recommandable than a GTX card.

 

Generally the Pimax offers a lot of options and adjustments, for instance you could set the FOV to 3 different states, or you could set the panels Hz as well to three different frequencies.

It´s more a VR headset for enthusiasts for hardware and the opposite of kind of "Playbox" console stuff.

 

The big advantage of the Pimax definitely is wide FOV and that´s in my eyes a big thing for VR.

Me won´t get back ever to any VR headset with small or medium FOV. Just alone the impression you get in VR, when jumping from the BF 109 Cockpit into the F-14 Tomcat is undescribable... you do feel the dimensions of the airframe much better you´re sitting in with wide FOV in VR.

[Bob_Bushman]

Far less than you think.

 

The 3.2ghz is the low ball, and it boost clocks to 4.6 out of the box, but only on one or two cores at once.

 

I'm seeing peopme getting 5-5.2ghz on stock coolers or regular water loops with some luck and delidding.

 

I'm too lazy to do that and I can't tell the difference between 4.7 and 5ghz.

And I'm still under <75c at load.

For gaming to simming I would barely hit 50c which allows for a much quieter rig.

 

I do want that wide FOV, it's why I backed it.

But seeing double every time I do any manouver, it just ruins it for me.

 

Maybe someday they'll get a software version that handles it I'm, right now it's only close to ok.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Bob_Bushman