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DCS and Pimax


Wags

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I ordered the 8KX bundle 1october and the pimax homesite said ”delivery in 7 working days”.

The 8KX was sent within the 7 Working days but they still havent sent the base stations and controllers. Soon two months and I can not really enjoy the 8KX without tracking.

starting to be a bit pissed on Pimax for this.

While it is Pimax's fault for promising them quickly, Vive has been very bad about keeping these in stock. Are you are least using the 3DOF built in the headset for seated, right? If you want 6DOF but are looking for seated experiences, you can get away with a single 1.0 Lighthouse and then flip it for about as much as you have in it when your ones from Pimax finally come. I have been keeping my Rift S around for partly for the standing/roomscale stuff due to not being able to get Vive "Knuckles" controllers causally looking for them since I got the 5k+ this summer. However, I've never put myself on a pre-order/notify list so they may have came in stock when I wasn't looking and

 

Some quick info on the 8k X

 

I run mine on a 1080TI + i7700k perfectly fine 75hz in most racing sims and i run 37 motion smooth for DCS. I can run large or small fov but i prefer small with a bit more SS 2500 vs 3000 res. My 1080TI is slightly lacking there but a 3080 normal or TI version will be more than good enough for me. DCS is cpu limited anyways

I was GPU limited on most smaller missions, like typical single player campaign when not on the ground/Supercarrier. Busy MP missions are always CPU bound for sure, but if you mostly single player or small private MP missions, you are probably GPU bound.

 

With the 3090, I'm seeing well over 10gb of VRAM with the Pimax 5k+, even over 20gb allocated and dedicated in Syria. If this method is right, I only see a few hundred MB difference between allocated and dedicated VRAM:

You might want one of the AMD 16gb cards or 3080 20Gb. I think this is why most of us 3090 owners are reporting less stutters.

 

To get a reasonably clear hud and instruments you want to have a IPD of minimum 65. preferably 66 as with the small sweet spot and canted lenses (Technically you are a bit outside the sweet spot with canted lenses but it does not work with such a small sweet spot but works great for the Index) reporting minimum IPD at 60ish but the center sweet spot actually being 65-66 it is physically impossible to be in the proper sweet spot if you are 64 or 63.5 like me. If you look to the sides more like in a racing or normal game where you dont really need to read things up close it is for the most part fine but if you wish to read instruments and hud you wont get a properly sharp view as you need to look like this \ / since the sweet spot is a fair bit away from your actual IPD. So you either need to extreme mod IPD (made it nice and sharp) it like me or live with a fuzzy center view and more clear when looking a bit to the sides but only with one eye sharp.

 

Image quality is of course much better than the 5k+ at lower SS but you get the jaggies. Sadly the small sweet spot also force you to go higher SS to clear up some of the fuzzy view.

 

Upscaling seems a a bit pointless for performance the moment and feels like its more there to give you the option for higher refresh rates which i think is great.

 

In short its a great HMD that i think is quite future proof but sadly with a very big shortcoming and that's the lenses and sweet spot that really ruins the experience for a lot of people when they cant get a sharp view in both eyes due to the canted lens and somewhat misleading (they never mention anything about being due to canting or any other documentation) numbers. If they make replacement lenses with a better sweet spot and or increase the adjustment range this will be a killer HMD.

Good info! I would say it's probably hard to make a large sweet spot with the FOV involved.

 

 

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I7-9700KF@5ghz, 32GB DDR4 3200, RTX 3090, Pimax 5k+, Virpil T-50CM2 base with Warthog, F/A-18, T-50cm, and VFX grips, Saitek X65F, Saitek Switch Panel, TM Cougar MFDs, TM TPR pedals, JetSeat and bass pucks, H640P for VRK, PointCtrl

 

3rd Space Vest project for basic G Seat/G Suit simulation

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While it is Pimax's fault for promising them quickly, Vive has been very bad about keeping these in stock. Are you are least using the 3DOF built in the headset for seated, right?

 

 

The base stations and knuckles are now shipped, so in one week I’ll have them.

 

Yes, I have used the 8KX in 3DOF but its not that fun in DCS, can not bend forward /move the head to flip a switch an not se things behind the flight stick. I need to perform a quick roll to find and flip a switch behind.

 

Also, the pimax experience can really be used without controllers.

 

I also play a racing game and there you dont really need the base stations. Can be enjoyed in 3 DOF.

 

Yes, pimax have been ok with communication during this but the ”shipping within 7 workingdays” made me believe I would get the whole order sent. If I knew there was a 2 month wait for the base stations I probably had waited with the order.

 

 

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[T.M HOTAS Warthog Stick & Throttle + T.Flight pedals, Varjo Aero, HP Reverb pro, Pimax 8KX] 🙂

[DCS Mirage 2K; Huey; Spitfire Mk IX, AJS 37, F-14, F-18, FC3, A-10 Warthog II and a few more ]

i9 13900KF@5.8/32Gb DDR5@6400/ Gigabyte Gaming OC RTX4090, ASUS STRIX Z790-F , 2Tb m2 NVMe

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The base stations and knuckles are now shipped, so in one week I’ll have them.

 

Yes, I have used the 8KX in 3DOF but its not that fun in DCS, can not bend forward /move the head to flip a switch an not se things behind the flight stick. I need to perform a quick roll to find and flip a switch behind.

 

Also, the pimax experience can really be used without controllers.

 

I also play a racing game and there you dont really need the base stations. Can be enjoyed in 3 DOF.

 

Yes, pimax have been ok with communication during this but the ”shipping within 7 workingdays” made me believe I would get the whole order sent. If I knew there was a 2 month wait for the base stations I probably had waited with the order.

 

 

Good to hear! I know a lot of people have not had good experience with Pimax support, but I have had good experiences so with them with replying and working through a problem, besides for the hack of asking for your tracking number to get them to ship quicker if an item is in stock. They sent me an extra protective cover when EMS took forever to get the original and offered to send it back when the original finally made. I get that the backers from the crowd funding have been hosed a lot. I ordered a 8K X on their Amazon Black Friday sale so we'll see when it gets here, maybe these are actually in the country since they are saying a Wednesday delivery. If anybody wants a used 5k+, I'll be selling mine soon:music_whistling:

 

But again for those just need basic 6DOF temporarily or just on the cheap, a used single 1.0 (or 2.0) tracking station will give you acceptable 6DOF and you can flip it for about the same price you bought it. l will say I did see an improvement in smoothness and extreme angle tracking with two 2.0 stations so they are worth it if you can afford it/Vive keeps them in stock/Pimax ships them. Remember though you can't mix and match base station versions when you get more than one.

I7-9700KF@5ghz, 32GB DDR4 3200, RTX 3090, Pimax 5k+, Virpil T-50CM2 base with Warthog, F/A-18, T-50cm, and VFX grips, Saitek X65F, Saitek Switch Panel, TM Cougar MFDs, TM TPR pedals, JetSeat and bass pucks, H640P for VRK, PointCtrl

 

3rd Space Vest project for basic G Seat/G Suit simulation

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l will say I did see an improvement in smoothness and extreme angle tracking with two 2.0 stations so they are worth it if you can afford it/Vive keeps them in stock/Pimax ships them. Remember though you can't mix and match base station versions when you get more than one.

 

I did order the bundle so I'll get two base stn 2.0 in about a week according to fedex.

 

Another question: My friend is thinking about getting the 8KX but because of the base station wait and also possible warranty issues, he did plan to order the 8KX from a swedish retailer that have 8KX in stock.

Which base stations work? Is it only steamVR / Valve index base stations that can be used or can HTC vive be used also ? I didnt learn about this as I ordered the bundle.

 

 

[T.M HOTAS Warthog Stick & Throttle + T.Flight pedals, Varjo Aero, HP Reverb pro, Pimax 8KX] 🙂

[DCS Mirage 2K; Huey; Spitfire Mk IX, AJS 37, F-14, F-18, FC3, A-10 Warthog II and a few more ]

i9 13900KF@5.8/32Gb DDR5@6400/ Gigabyte Gaming OC RTX4090, ASUS STRIX Z790-F , 2Tb m2 NVMe

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I'm using single HTC Vive v1 base station with 8KX so yes those work also. Although I am having some trouble getting my 8KX to detect the base station but I think the problem lies in the HMD or then it is with my motherboard USB ports.. With my 5k+ it gets detected immediately and tracking works well but 8KX is a bit troublesome. I am still experimenting with different USB ports and such. Some others have had this kind of problems also and support has made some firmware updates to their headsets to fix the issues so I think this might be fixed later with a general firmware update.

 

About the HMD itself I think it is quite nice and picture quality is good. I have previous experience with OG Rift, Index, Reverb gen1 and 5k+. I have only i7-6700k @ 4.5 and 1080Ti so performance is a bit of an issue and I need to use small or potato FOV with DCS now to get playable FPS until I upgrade my equipment. I think the biggest problems are with the canted lenses as Trigen described. I have around 67 IPD and my solution was to decrease the mechanical IPD so that I will get the sweetspot for both eyes to be straight ahead (both eyes sharp when looking at instruments) and then I adjusted the software IPD to get a pleasant view for my eyes. I ended up with mechanical IPD at minimum and software IPD +3. Also the sound with the MAS is nothing spectacular but it is playable if you don't need great quality. For me the MAS is unusable as it leaks too much sound. One night my wife was sleeping in next room and she woke up to the sound of a rally game as it was so loud. So I have ended up using my Beyerdynamic headphones which fit under the MAS until I get the DMAS I ordered (and basestations and controllers ;) ).

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I did order the bundle so I'll get two base stn 2.0 in about a week according to fedex.

 

Another question: My friend is thinking about getting the 8KX but because of the base station wait and also possible warranty issues, he did plan to order the 8KX from a swedish retailer that have 8KX in stock.

Which base stations work? Is it only steamVR / Valve index base stations that can be used or can HTC vive be used also ? I didnt learn about this as I ordered the bundle.

 

 

Yes, they are HTC Vive base stations (a.k.a. lighthouses), either 1.0 or 2.0 work with Pimax and the Vive VR stuff obviously, like the knuckles. I know Pimax is working on a "sword" controller, but I don't think they are planning to make their own base stations.

 

I always forget the difference between Valve and Vive these days because at first it was a complete collaboration and they still work together despite different headsets now. I don't know if Valve manufactures base stations too to the same specs or they are all the same source of HTC Vive.

 

You can use more than two 2.0 stations for less dead spaces if you are doing roomscale. So those of you that plan to do both, if you can find a single 2.0 base station you could get 6DOF seated while you are waiting for HTC production/Pimax shipping/budget allows later. The second post here has a good run down on the base stations:

https://forum.vive.com/topic/7656-10-vs-20-base-stations-whats-the-real-difference/

 

I7-9700KF@5ghz, 32GB DDR4 3200, RTX 3090, Pimax 5k+, Virpil T-50CM2 base with Warthog, F/A-18, T-50cm, and VFX grips, Saitek X65F, Saitek Switch Panel, TM Cougar MFDs, TM TPR pedals, JetSeat and bass pucks, H640P for VRK, PointCtrl

 

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Anyone have good tips & tricks for the pimax setup. Still without base stations so I just made som tests so far, the little gaming I done have been with the reverb.

 

I see SteamVR default resolution is quite high( 100% = quite some supersampling).

 

So, which pitool settings, steamVR and DCS are you using?

 

 

[T.M HOTAS Warthog Stick & Throttle + T.Flight pedals, Varjo Aero, HP Reverb pro, Pimax 8KX] 🙂

[DCS Mirage 2K; Huey; Spitfire Mk IX, AJS 37, F-14, F-18, FC3, A-10 Warthog II and a few more ]

i9 13900KF@5.8/32Gb DDR5@6400/ Gigabyte Gaming OC RTX4090, ASUS STRIX Z790-F , 2Tb m2 NVMe

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Here's my first if impressions on the 8K X. I received it yesterday and only got about 20 minutes in it. I now see what you guys are saying about the cant.  It is a weird feeling at first.  But my IPD is 63.5mm or so and with the limited time I had last night to try it, both eyes seemed clear.  And how clear! First impression was how "glassy" everything looked and that it was more like what I'm used to with a monitor. I was able to see the ball much more clearly on approach and maybe able to turn my custom dot labels off now! After I turned off my 4x MSAA that isn't as needed now, I have just a slight performance hit compared to the 5k+ and I'm also going to try to turn smart smoothing back on.

 

Edit to add: Also overall, I think the halo is a plus, even though it wasn't my favorite with the Rift S. I don't plan to use the speakers and it does make using my typical headsets difficult.


Edited by Snake122

I7-9700KF@5ghz, 32GB DDR4 3200, RTX 3090, Pimax 5k+, Virpil T-50CM2 base with Warthog, F/A-18, T-50cm, and VFX grips, Saitek X65F, Saitek Switch Panel, TM Cougar MFDs, TM TPR pedals, JetSeat and bass pucks, H640P for VRK, PointCtrl

 

3rd Space Vest project for basic G Seat/G Suit simulation

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I spent a couple hours with the 8k X tonight and the canted lens feeling was no longer noticable.  Otherwise, I'm really enjoying it, still playing around with the settings to find the best options. I agree, the upscaling setting seems not worth it at all for the lack of clarity and for very little performance gain. I'm not a person that needs a high refresh rate either. I'm also messing with the SteamVR resolution levels to find the sweet spot. But honestly that 100% setting seems worth it right now, but I haven't flown busy missions or attempted hardly any Supercarrier traps.


Edited by Snake122

I7-9700KF@5ghz, 32GB DDR4 3200, RTX 3090, Pimax 5k+, Virpil T-50CM2 base with Warthog, F/A-18, T-50cm, and VFX grips, Saitek X65F, Saitek Switch Panel, TM Cougar MFDs, TM TPR pedals, JetSeat and bass pucks, H640P for VRK, PointCtrl

 

3rd Space Vest project for basic G Seat/G Suit simulation

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8kx normal FOV, i9-9900 KS oc to 5.0, 3090, 32g

 

Steam: DCS application set at 115%, smart smoothing off

DCS: trees and clutter at 50%, MSAA 2x, visibility high, textures max, water med, PD 1.0, MSAA mask size .20

Pitool: 1.0, smart smoothing off

 

Getting 40-50 FPS using FPSvr on multiplayer syria or around Al Dhafra on PG

GPU and CPU frame times 15-25

Moe "Moespeeds" Colontonio

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm curious how many fellow Pimaxers here have tried turning off Parallel Projections lately? I just did yesterday and was impressed with the big (30%?) jump in FPS on my Artisan. Also the image resolution even looks a bit better to me, but I also turned on Steam Advanced Super-sample Filtering at the same time.

 

NB: I'm on the latest Beta PiTool 1.0.2.087_v2 , but not sure if that matters. 100% Steam SS, 1.0 SS in DCS, 1.0 RQ in Pitool.

 

I had tried this earlier this year, but it seems to me the cross-eyed zoom trade-off isn't as severe as it once was. I may just rock this from now on. Thoughts?

 

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My Setup: Vive Pro 2, RTX 3090, I7-11700K, VKB Gladiator II/K conversion, TWCS, TPR pedals, PlaySeat, SimShaker, VoiceAttack

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4 hours ago, The Highlander said:

Parallel Projections was fixed ages ago cant mind when though

 

Thanks. Do you mean fixed by ED in DCS? As in they recently updated DCS VR to handle canted HMDs natively? Because it definitely still went cross-eyed in the zoom back in June. I must have missed the patch notes then. Or was it in a SteamVR update maybe?

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

My Setup: Vive Pro 2, RTX 3090, I7-11700K, VKB Gladiator II/K conversion, TWCS, TPR pedals, PlaySeat, SimShaker, VoiceAttack

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Same thing in IL-2 GB, I just noticed. No PP required there either now. Seems like too big of a coincidence for both devs to do it at the same time?

 

Edit: Apparently IL-2 did fix it last month, in their patch notes. I still can't find it in ED's notes, but it seems they must have done it too. Nice!


Edited by Darrylx444
clarity and new info

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My Setup: Vive Pro 2, RTX 3090, I7-11700K, VKB Gladiator II/K conversion, TWCS, TPR pedals, PlaySeat, SimShaker, VoiceAttack

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On 12/16/2020 at 6:22 PM, Darrylx444 said:

I'm curious how many fellow Pimaxers here have tried turning off Parallel Projections lately? I just did yesterday and was impressed with the big (30%?) jump in FPS on my Artisan. Also the image resolution even looks a bit better to me, but I also turned on Steam Advanced Super-sample Filtering at the same time.

 

NB: I'm on the latest Beta PiTool 1.0.2.087_v2 , but not sure if that matters. 100% Steam SS, 1.0 SS in DCS, 1.0 RQ in Pitool.

 

I had tried this earlier this year, but it seems to me the cross-eyed zoom trade-off isn't as severe as it once was. I may just rock this from now on. Thoughts?

 

Yes, it was mentioned earlier in this thread that the parallel projection was no longer needed and it definitely has a performance increase. But I understand how you missed it with this big of tread and now no longer a quick thread search option and it should be mentioned again anyway!

I7-9700KF@5ghz, 32GB DDR4 3200, RTX 3090, Pimax 5k+, Virpil T-50CM2 base with Warthog, F/A-18, T-50cm, and VFX grips, Saitek X65F, Saitek Switch Panel, TM Cougar MFDs, TM TPR pedals, JetSeat and bass pucks, H640P for VRK, PointCtrl

 

3rd Space Vest project for basic G Seat/G Suit simulation

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For those interested, I have posted all my settings on this thread I started.  Getting anywhere between 50 and 60FPS on just about every map.  Some times it dips to 45, but usually sticking around 50 to 55.  The new OB patch and NVIDIA patch may have something to do with it.  I have posted some videos on this thread so you can see my FPS.  INSANE flying low level over Syria with the F-16 at such a high FPS.

 

 

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p8kX 

75/37.5
3090

Ive noticed as soon as you go over 70% GPU use motion smooth (or a DCS issue?) can no longer keep up and start frame lagging and stops being smooth. its very visible looking out to the sides and leaves a pretty big loss in available performance.  You guys getting that? 


Edited by trigen

1080 ti, i7700k 5ghz, 16gb 3600 cl14 ddr4 oc

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4 hours ago, trigen said:

p8kX 

75/37.5
3090

Ive noticed as soon as you go over 70% GPU use motion smooth (or a DCS issue?) can no longer keep up and start frame lagging and stops being smooth. its very visible looking out to the sides and leaves a pretty big loss in available performance.  You guys getting that? 

 

Yes, to me it is smoother at 50-60 fps with my 3090 without motion smoothing than the 37.5 "smoothed"

I7-9700KF@5ghz, 32GB DDR4 3200, RTX 3090, Pimax 5k+, Virpil T-50CM2 base with Warthog, F/A-18, T-50cm, and VFX grips, Saitek X65F, Saitek Switch Panel, TM Cougar MFDs, TM TPR pedals, JetSeat and bass pucks, H640P for VRK, PointCtrl

 

3rd Space Vest project for basic G Seat/G Suit simulation

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I get a weird halting every few frames while flying on the deck (looking at trees going by) IF Smart Smoothing is ON. Only in DCS, not any of my other sims.

With it turned OFF, it is perfectly smooth.

 

However, at all other altitudes, I usually prefer Smart Smoothing to be ON because there is no halting, and it improves the perceived FPS at 120Hz.

 

So, it would be great if Pimax would enable hot-keys to allow switching Smart Smoothing on-the-fly, similar to how Oculus does already with ASW (Ctrl-Numpad-1,2,3,4). I already asked the devs via reddit a few months ago, and Kevin said he would bring it up with the team. Here's hoping!

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

My Setup: Vive Pro 2, RTX 3090, I7-11700K, VKB Gladiator II/K conversion, TWCS, TPR pedals, PlaySeat, SimShaker, VoiceAttack

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Here is another FPS boost that only just started to work for me just recently. Based on others comments I had tried this before like 7 months ago without success, but for some reason I tried again this week and it works for me now:

 

Reduce SteamVR SuperSampling to 50%. Increase PiTool Render Quality to 1.25. Leave DCS VR Pixel Density at 1.0 (none).

For me this gives about 15-20 more FPS, AND slightly better image quality as my previous settings (SVR SS 100%, PT RQ 1.0, DCS PD 1.0).

 

I know the setting value uses a different scaling factor than Steam does, but perhaps PT RQ is just more efficient? YMMV

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My Setup: Vive Pro 2, RTX 3090, I7-11700K, VKB Gladiator II/K conversion, TWCS, TPR pedals, PlaySeat, SimShaker, VoiceAttack

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Do you need the SteamVR based station to run this headset? Or just the headset? Which headset to go for too?

Now: Water-cooled Ryzen 5800X + 32GB DDR 4 3200 RAM + EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra 24 GB + Reverb G2 + Add-on PCI-e 3.1 card + 2x1TB Corsair M.2 4900/4200 + TM HOTAS Warthog + TM TPR Pendular Rudder  'Engaged Defensive' YouTube Channel

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Backup: Water-cooled i7 6700K @ 4.5GHz + 32GB DDR4 3200MHz + GTX 1080 8GB + 1TB M.2 1k drive & 250GB SSD drive 500MBps 4K 40" monitor + TrackIR 5

 

 

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On 1/1/2021 at 3:06 PM, Darrylx444 said:

Here is another FPS boost that only just started to work for me just recently. Based on others comments I had tried this before like 7 months ago without success, but for some reason I tried again this week and it works for me now:

 

Reduce SteamVR SuperSampling to 50%. Increase PiTool Render Quality to 1.25. Leave DCS VR Pixel Density at 1.0 (none).

For me this gives about 15-20 more FPS, AND slightly better image quality as my previous settings (SVR SS 100%, PT RQ 1.0, DCS PD 1.0).

 

I know the setting value uses a different scaling factor than Steam does, but perhaps PT RQ is just more efficient? YMMV

Thanks for the suggestion. For me though, this works out to be about the same as SVR 78% PT RQ 1.0 which is the resolution that I get almost exactly equal with 50% SVR and PT RQ 1.25. I can also tell that the HUD is slightly less crisp than SVR 100%.


Edited by Snake122

I7-9700KF@5ghz, 32GB DDR4 3200, RTX 3090, Pimax 5k+, Virpil T-50CM2 base with Warthog, F/A-18, T-50cm, and VFX grips, Saitek X65F, Saitek Switch Panel, TM Cougar MFDs, TM TPR pedals, JetSeat and bass pucks, H640P for VRK, PointCtrl

 

3rd Space Vest project for basic G Seat/G Suit simulation

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22 hours ago, Snake122 said:

Thanks for the suggestion. For me though, this works out to be about the same as SVR 78% PT RQ 1.0 which is the resolution that I get almost exactly equal with 50% SVR and PT RQ 1.25. I can also tell that the HUD is slightly less crisp than SVR 100%.

 

Yeah, upon further testing the (subjective) visual quality may not actually be as good as I originally thought. Definitely still an FPS boost, but not exactly a free one. My bad.

I am really enjoying the smooth VR performance lately!

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My Setup: Vive Pro 2, RTX 3090, I7-11700K, VKB Gladiator II/K conversion, TWCS, TPR pedals, PlaySeat, SimShaker, VoiceAttack

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