OT: Venezuela's new SU-30MK2's

[Prophet]

Because Venezuela is trying to sell oil in Euro's which will collapse the dollar.

 

Same thing Hussein/Iraq did prior to us invading.

[jurinko]

http://www.exile.ru/2006-October-06/venezuela_enchilada_of_evil.html

 

:lol:

[veit]

http://www.exile.ru/2006-October-06/venezuela_enchilada_of_evil.html

 

:lol:

 

LOL incredibly entertaining AND insightful.

[Hellcat61]

Very poignant arcticle.:thumbup: I think the jets are sweet looking, but a complete waste of money militarily-speaking. For now, I do my part to stem the tide of socialism by not buying Citgo gas, and take comfort in knowing that if Venezuela ever caused real tension, the US military would have absolutely no trouble alleviating it.:gun_sniper: :captain:

 

Holla!

[Che]

http://www.exile.ru/2006-October-06/venezuela_enchilada_of_evil.html

 

:lol:

 

 

I have to laugh at that website. I can't believe Right Wingers still use the word commie lol.

 

Typical though from internet political websites, they seem to state the obvious and present it as if the author has some kind of great insight into the situation. Everyone knows that the US military can't be beat and that's all there is to it. They spend more on their military than the next 20 countries in the list put together so if they want to invade your country they can and will and there's nothing you or anyone can do about it.. Hell they don't even need a legal reason, so saying the Su30's were bought to defend Venezuela against the US is just plain stupid. The reason Venezuela baught Su30's instead of US jets is because of the breakdown in their relationship which puts in question the whole "keeping'em flying" idea. With the Russian deal they will at least have the ability to resupply with out loosing the A2A capabilty they had with their F16s and even though that capibiltie is very, very limited it at least keeps them in the game in terms of "it's harder to start an AF from Scrath than build on what you already have".

 

It also makes me laugh when people from one country celebrate the fact that invasion is part of their countries foreign policy..

 

For me personally this thread starts and ends with the idea that Venezuela purchased some cool jets and as someone that is intersted in Fighters I can appreicaite the Su30 with out the politics.

[Esac_mirmidon]

" Everyone knows that the US military can't be beat and that's all there is to it"

 

SURE?

 

What they means " can´t be beat ? In an ordinary conflict, in a conventional war, in a large scale showdown?

 

IMHO the United States aren´t wining the " war " in Afghanistan, neither in Irak, no in Vietnam, no in his participation in the Libanon Civil War, and so on and so for...

 

Not always the biggest budget, the first military power and the most technological advantage makes the difference. Win a war is very easy, but after the war who wins? ( IRAK is a proof, Afghanistan a fact )

[GGTharos]

Politics make the difference :) They did in vietnam, and Korea.

[NY3D]

Those are cool looking Flankers! There is no fighter airplane in the air today that looks as good as Flanker.

 

 

I highly agree,best lookin fighters in the world....very effective too:pilotfly:

[veit]

" Everyone knows that the US military can't be beat and that's all there is to it"

 

SURE?

 

What they means " can´t be beat ? In an ordinary conflict, in a conventional war, in a large scale showdown?

 

IMHO the United States aren´t wining the " war " in Afghanistan, neither in Irak, no in Vietnam, no in his participation in the Libanon Civil War, and so on and so for...

 

Not always the biggest budget, the first military power and the most technological advantage makes the difference. Win a war is very easy, but after the war who wins? ( IRAK is a proof, Afghanistan a fact )

 

It's assumed he meant in a conventional war (tech vs. tech), which was in the context of the article about Venezuela. If you read carefully, he also pointed out that guerilla tactics are much more effective in modern insurgencies, i.e. the scenarios in Iraq and Afghanistan. Anyway, we're going far afield of the topic.

[Force_Feedback]

Okay, firstly, stop whining about politics and the F-16, I know those people want to 'influence' southern America, to buy oil in $ and to look down at 'Mexicans', but this is not the topic, it's about the Su-30MK2(V).

 

Oh man, I want cockpit shots, I love those outer panels angled inwards, looks very Star Trek-shuttle-something like. What kind of armament will your Su-30MK2s support? What are the 'customizations' on your Su-30ies in terms of engines, avionics and such?

 

PLZ GIVE US COCKPIT SHOTS :P

[Tomahawk674]

*Sigh*

 

There will be no war between Venezuela and ANY other country. The closest we've ever been to a war in the last few years was a civil war.

 

Like I said before, we are just getting new equipment for our air forces. 24 Su-30s and there is talk about getting more. Also some Mi-35 hinds that will most likely to to patrol our borders and prevent drug trafficing, which is the most likely confrontation to ever happen.

 

We are not the only ones adding to our airforces. Brasil was looking into Su-30s as well but I believe they opted for Mirage 2000s, Chile got some new F-16s, etc. They're not going to war with anyone either...

 

And our AK-103/104 are going to replace our 40 year old FALs.

 

I'm not excited that we got Su-30s to fight anyone, I'm excited we got them because they are pretty cool planes, and the paint scheme is awsome...

 

No cockpit shots yet, and the article that I'm waiting for to be published that describes our Su-30s isn't out yet. All I have is this:

 

http://fav-club.com/descargas.htm

 

Click on the Su-30MK2, it's only a walk around. That day there was an airshow and I'm trying to find any video of them performing.

 

You can also look at the Hind video.

[Zayets]

Honestly,I don't like the paint scheme. I have seen much cooler schemes for 30's.

Eh,can't please everyone... Nice acquisition though! Blue sky and no accidents!

[Colt40Five]

If anyone can provide some good pics of the symbols on the tail and wings. I'll make the skins....

[Pilotasso]

As long as they are in good shape, they will not need to be mathed.. US wouldn't dare to.

:huh:

Your kiding right?

 

What makes the Su-30 any different than the machines that met in previous wars?

 

Anyone armed with Su-30's are far from being invencible, I see people sayin no to "f-22 PWNS all" but the feeling torwards the flanker is exactly the same but with no substantiation at all. You know what this sounds? It sounds like dreamland bias.

 

24 Su-30's will not scare any airforce equiped with decent AF. Saying the US "would not dare" because of 24 fighters is a bit streaching your imagination too far.

[RvETito]

Here are some more pictures of the Venezuelian Su-30s performing at airshow, may be the very same show Tomahawk674 was refering to.

Note: Scroll down the page, the site is in bulgarian.

The blue suits of the pilots tells me that they are more likely to be Sukhoi test pilots rather than domestic.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Excuses... no more politic at all....

 

But more usually than necessary this kind of topics fall in a useles " My bird is big than yours " " Falcon , Eagle...XXX is better than Sukhoi MiG" and i´m really tired about that.

 

Why we can´t talk about Su´s Mig´s Falcons... without compare it EVERY TIME with its counterparts? It´s very interesting talk about pos. an neg. about one airplane compared with others but ALWAYS fall in discussions about " mine is better than yours" is very tired.

 

The Su30MKII is a superb aircraft, more than adecuated for the use tha Venezuela needs , a multirole aircraft to employ in HIS influence area, to provide adecuate air defense and a better air to ground capacity.

 

That´s all, please let oil, USA, wars , and other things away, except the problem about replacement parts ( I think it´s very interesting point totalk about )

[Force_Feedback]

Ooh, K-36D 3.5 in there, those things are sweeet, will save your pilot's asses anytime, but let's hope they won't have to use them too soon. Any info on the ejection seat customization, do these have roll thrusters?

 

EDIT, video makes me think you've got the K-36D 3.5A.

 

Those flares on that mi-35M2 look like rockets themselves, very, very cool, guess 'stan' led to advances in flare technology on the Alligator.

[Zayets]

b

Excuses... no more politic at all....

 

Why we can´t talk about Su´s Mig´s Falcons... without compare it EVERY TIME with its counterparts? It´s very interesting talk about pos. an neg. about one airplane compared with others but ALWAYS fall in discussions about " mine is better than yours" is very tired.

 

Because that's all about maybe? One builds a plane,the other one tries to build a better one. It's always (and it will always be) a matter of comparison if not for the sake of argument then for the troops morale. As long as they are fairly compared there's no problem at all. How would you know if X has built a better plane than Y if you don't compare them? It's all about competition. And yes, they do compare products when competing.

[Pilotasso]

The Su30MKII is a superb aircraft, more than adecuated for the use tha Venezuela needs , a multirole aircraft to employ in HIS influence area, to provide adecuate air defense and a better air to ground capacity.

 

Actualy the Su is not adequate for venezuelan needs. The airfroce used to be configured in a large way to counter terrorist/rebels operations. There are videos out there F-16's droping GBU-12's on suspected paramilitary movements. All that the flanker is going to do in that role is to scare away the insurrectors with a huge big sillowette from miles way.

 

The range it offers covers territories of countries who didnt even had a match for the f-16. The decision for aquisition of the flanker is only political (read: provocation) and so far it only has managed to pi$$ people off, most of them were not even US.

 

The flanker is not going to do anything usefull for that country: chances are that it will get more isolated instead.

 

Im sorry if this sounds like a political reply to other threads but I too get a bit stirred up when someone acuses others of "F-22 PWNS all" and do the same for the flanker reflecting a typical hypocrital rebell attitude torwards the pet hatred "usual culprits".

 

I dont even belong to either countries nor have anything with them, and when I go discuss pros and cons like you wanted, it always degenerates into "Im-a-victim-and-my-planes-are-better-no-matter-what" dilusional aproach.

[FrankTheSpank]

Venezuela president: America's president is the devil himself and all that is evil.

 

Venezuela president: So America, can we have more F-16 parts? :helpsmilie:

 

LOL

 

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. I admire the cojones Hugo Chavez has and don't like Bush either, but was putting a major hole in your military really worth a few words to the world about a guy who is not going to be president in a year?

[Shepski]

Do some of you guys actually read what you have posted??

 

You talk like you were involved in the design and production of the jets and weapons you are referring to. As joe blow public you might know 30% yet you post like you know 100% of the inforamtion.

 

How can you say 1 engine on the F-16 is better then 2 on a Flanker? Venezuela is mountianous... 2 engines is a much safer choice and always will be over a jet with one in that type of terrain. Pilots don't eject when they lose an engine on a twin... what kind of nonsense is that?

 

Congrat's to Venezuela on getting some new Flankers... most of the rest of this thread is utter crap and enough with the politics... I'm sure the Venezuelan government knows enough information to make the right decision for it's needs.

[Tomahawk674]

Venezuela president: America's president is the devil himself and all that is evil.

 

Venezuela president: So America, can we have more F-16 parts? :helpsmilie:

 

LOL

 

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. I admire the cojones Hugo Chavez has and don't like Bush either, but was putting a major hole in your military really worth a few words to the world about a guy who is not going to be president in a year?

 

The parts and upgrades to our F-16s were denied a long time ago. That little devil quote was said much later, and I won't comment on it.

 

From now on it's clear our 2 goverments will probably only deal with oil sales, and that's about it.

 

We didn't exactly shoot ourselves in the foot. The only thing we needed were replacement parts and upgrades to 20 F-16s. The replacement parts were found, I do not know exactly where. They probably won't be retired soon, and I can't tell exactly what's going to be done to them. I'll look it up in a bit.

 

I'm sure the Su-30s are not meant to replace the F-16s.

[Pilotasso]

Do some of you guys actually read what you have posted??

 

How can you say 1 engine on the F-16 is better then 2 on a Flanker? Venezuela is mountianous... 2 engines is a much safer choice and always will be over a jet with one in that type of terrain.

 

The debate wether 1 or 2 engines is safer is still waged among designers and buyers. Pakistan has used F-16's in very adverse mountanious terrain and guess what, they are still flying even after the arms restrictions.

 

Some of the worst accident records hapened to 2 engined fighters, I think this is due more to the inherent design than the existence of 1 or 2 engines in that particular airframe. Ironicaly the F-14 Tomcat being one of the few designs to prevent engine damage from spreading to the other has been notorious for its blowouts. The rest have both engines side by side with reports of one engine malfunction bringing the aircraft down, so you figure it out.

 

Theres still people going arround the loss ratio of 1 and 2 engined aircraft with inconclusive results. In the end I think the psicological effect of having 2 engines gives a sensation of safety but its not actualy justified scientificaly.

 

So when you got planes like this, is the 2 engines issue even relevant to the table? I think not. If Chavez wasnt so after GWB patience, he would probably get another plane instead (or keep the falcons).

[Shepski]

One of the main reasons Canada chose the F/A-18 over the F-16 was the fact the -18 has 2 engines. Engine failures during peace time will not cause the 2nd engine to shut down and with the exception of the US, it is peace time around the world when it comes to fighter and bomber aircraft.

 

Losing a 2nd engine due to battle damage from the first can happen but again, what twin engine fighters are at risk or will be at risk now or in the future?

[Tomahawk674]

The debate wether 1 or 2 engines is safer is still waged among designers and buyers. Pakistan has used F-16's in very adverse mountanious terrain, and guess, what they are still flying even after the arms restrictions to it.

 

Some of the worst accident records hapened to 2 engined fighters, I think this is due more to the inherent design than the existence of 1 or 2 engines in that particular airframe. Ironicaly the F-14 Tomcat being one of the few designs to prevent engine damage from spreading to the other has been notorious for its blowouts. The rest have both engines side by side with reports of one engine malfunction bringing the aircraft down, so you figure it out.

 

Theres still people going arround the loss ratio of 1 and 2 engined aircraft with inconclusive results.

 

So when you got planes like this, is the 2 engines issue even relevant to the table? I think not. If Chavez wasnt so after GWB patience, he would probably get another plane instead (or keep the falcons).

 

Chavez isn't going after anyone's patience. If they get irritated with our decisions, c'est la vie. We aren't hurting anyone. We had been looking at options for new aircraft for a long time; back in 2001 2 Mig-29s were brought in for evaluation, but we didn't opt for them. I'm sure our airforce is qualified to choose what aircraft to purchase. I believe they requested aditional AG options for the Flankers we bought. We will also keep our F-16s and work on them however possible.

 

I'll post the more of our Flanker's specs as soon as the information is released.