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AV-8B COPY PROTECTION CHANGE


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AV-8B COPY PROTECTION CHANGE  

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  1. 1. AV-8B COPY PROTECTION CHANGE

    • 1 Calendar Day
    • 3 Calendar Days ( Current System Under Evaluation )
    • 7 Calendar Days
    • 14 Calendar Days
    • 21 Calendar Days
    • 30 Calendar Days ( Once a Month )
    • 60 Calendar Days
    • 90 Calendar Days


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Yes Viper, thank you,

 

Please give us constructive examples of when this 3 day stance would impede your enjoyment of the sim. I am all for seeing a longer period of time, but also forever isnt reasonable either, ED has to protect their interests as well, and a healthy ED is better for us.

 

While I understand that this protection system is a work-in-progress, I can give a reason why offline play without an Internet connection shouln't be disabled if there is no "phone home" within X number of days.

 

I'm retired and living on a fixed income. It is possible that I could need to suspend my ISP for a month or two to use that money for something else. Since I love DCS, I'd want to continue to fly missions or campaigns offline. With the modules suspended after a time if no "phone home" is made, I couldn't do that.

 

My suggestion is a "phone home" verification when online, but don't disable the modules for offline use.

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Let me say it was better to tell beforehand what the purchase was gonna be with the harrier :) A complete surprise I wasn't handed a licensekey to signify a unique trade.

 

 

Buying an unique license key gives you control to redeem or not.

Buying a license of softwarecopy means a trade (with a trade over the counter I believe). Now this accountbased acces to software is different as you were never in control in the exchange, its a deal you need to accept beforehand.

I mean when I bought the module I expected a trade so I could control what to do with the license. Instead without asking no unique license was bound to my account I think and being controlled with ''spyagent'' to turn it off seemingly. Without visibly seeing no key it could be seen as sharing of software by the form of acces behind the ED wall.

 

Not to annoy everyone but the harrier is great :)

 

The EULA specifically states that the module you are licence is non-transferable.

 

As such, even if Starforce Proactive was still applicable to your module purchase, you could never control what you did with it, apart from keep it for yourself or terminate your licence and destroy the software.

 

Fine-print is a bugger :)

 

EULA is very country specific by the way :)

Instead what you thought I wrote;

I meant the proces of purchase/trade with the ED-shop; So normally with licensed software my money is in exchange for a unique product key.

But that didn't happen with the harrier.

Without knowing what license copy is sold to me. I can argue that I never purchased a unique copy and it ain't working correctly if it lasts for 4 days :)

 

The software number has never been over the counter, who's copy I installed on my pc when I download?

 

Without knowing your copy number there it is hard to accept digital right management because your copy ain't unique.

 

The word buying a module isn't possible.


Edited by Cnuke
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EULA is very country specific by the way :)

 

Would have been had you not consented to Jurisdiction in terms of Section 10.3 :)

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In most cases that would be weekly.

 

Yes, and that could be a solution that suits all. ED get´s their weekly "phonecall", and anybody who can´t go online for whatever reason can still enjoy the last version they had offline.

 

This variant would also protect us customers from not being able to play anymore if ED goes out of business. Then we still have the last version to play SP.

 

The bad pirates would get no updates and no new modules.

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I can argue that I never purchased a unique copy and it ain't working correctly if it lasts for 4 days :)

 

One can then argue that you bought a module knowing that activation via the internet is required. That much is pretty obvious as it's mentioned all over the store pages.

 

It does not state that you only have to activate once. It does not state that you have to activate ten times. It states that you have to activate, leading to the inference that activations are required at intervals to be determined.

 

Now you further agreed to the following in terms of section 3.2, and I quote:

 

“3.2 You acknowledge that the Program has not been developed to meet your individual requirements and that it is therefore your responsibility to ensure that the facilities and functions of the Program as described in the Documentation meet your requirements.”

 

As you can see, the onus is on you, the consumer, to ensure that you can activate the product as and when required via an Internet connection, as described, when you purchased the product. In this instance it's every fourth day, hopefully to be extended.

 

Interpretation is a bugger :)

 

All that said, let's hope that TFC/ED can come up with a reasonable solution that will, if not placate all parties, at least placate the majority.


Edited by 159th_Viper

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Can anyone confirm that StarForce in DCS uses "Periodic license confirmation"?

And what is the confirmation intervall?

 

I have asked this as well, with no response.

 

Never heard of that to be honest. If someone has info about it, I would like to know as well.

 

Either it's a misunderstanding, or particular case for some modules which I don't have. I had no popup that would render any module unusable, prompting me to reactivate because the PC was offline for too long, ever. So I can't elaborate.

 

Only special case was the pre-patch mig21, which had issues with starforce and it asked for reactivation even if I updated bios, or enabled/disabled c6 states of cpu in bios, swapped some HID drivers, sometimes seemingly even at random.

 

 

As of suggestions, I would leave old purchases as they are, potentially with an option for transfer of existing starforce licenses to the new drm, if the customer agrees to it. Such switch would be permanent ofc. All future purchases (even of older modules) would be the new drm already, if ED desires to go that way, as long as it is stated on the store page (which it is now in case of Harrier).

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As of suggestions, I would leave old purchases as they are, potentially with an option for transfer of existing starforce licenses to the new drm, if the customer agrees to it.

 

Agreed. I have no desire to switch my existing modules to the new DRM.

 

Also, if Starforce phones home periodically, I would like to see official confirmation of that fact including under what circumstances/time frame that it occurs.

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Agreed. I have no desire to switch my existing modules to the new DRM.

 

Also, if Starforce phones home periodically, I would like to see official confirmation of that fact including under what circumstances/time frame that it occurs.

 

It really doesnt matter at this point, I dont think they are going to support multiple DRMs, or roll back to Starforce, best to focus on making this one the best it can be.

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It really doesnt matter at this point, I dont think they are going to support multiple DRMs, or roll back to Starforce, best to focus on making this one the best it can be.

 

Actually, as long as Starforce is the current DRM for every module that I own, it does matter.

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I voted once a month in the poll, that seems a reasonable compromise, but would really like to see ED consider an offline play option as well without the need to phone home.

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EULA is very country specific by the way :)

Instead what you thought I wrote;

I meant the proces of purchase/trade with the ED-shop; So normally with licensed software my money is in exchange for a unique product key.

But that didn't happen with the harrier.

Without knowing what license copy is sold to me. I can argue that I never purchased a unique copy and it ain't working correctly if it lasts for 4 days :)

 

The software number has never been over the counter, who's copy I installed on my pc when I download?

 

Without knowing your copy number there it is hard to accept digital right management because your copy ain't unique.

 

The word buying a module isn't possible.

 

I got a serial number when I pre-ordered the AV8B

 

ek84T4Z.jpg

 

So I was expecting the same terms and conditions as I had under all the previous purchases going back to when BS1 was released

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Will be fine. The systems will just need to perform a "phone home" verification every four days.

 

Most important, this is no constant online connection required.

 

Thanks

 

Thanks for the answer. I live in the country and can't always count on my internet. Of course, I can't always count on the power, either...

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Even Starforce Checks License's every 30 days.....

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The main concern in any acceptence of a proposal is transparancy and available information to agree or decide upon.

 

DRM is still installed with the module locally on your pc installation just as Starforce right? But combined with the new online login requirements this is more restrictive DRM?

 

The costs are lower without starforce I presume ?(not really seen with the harrier tho).

One of the main problems with accountbased DRM is the privacy topic; datamining and analytic software.

What exactly is being datamined from your installation pc to prevent 'abuse' of the new DRM? Or planned in the future?

 

 

@Alicatt

That's strange :-( , I think it's because the update on the website was done and no serial was given to me.

 

I think it's always best to introduce new situations before selling something to make sure end user agreements are up-to-date, and consumers knows what to expect.


Edited by Cnuke
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Even Starforce Checks License's every 30 days.....

 

Do you have confirmation of this Skate? An answer would be dandy :)

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One can then argue that you bought a module knowing that activation via the internet is required. That much is pretty obvious as it's mentioned all over the store pages.

 

If you don't mind, I will address your comment, despite it was not directed at me.

 

Online activation is just one of the options available for the customer from what I gather. According to Starforce ProActive official webpage, you can activate from a different computer via email or web, or even dumbphone via sms, or fax for example. Neither requires the target computer with dcs installation to be online to access the content. This part is rather important as it is in contrast with the new/upcoming drm, so I would like to underline it. If you base your assumption that starforce drm equals to login/periodical online verification, no doubt you are confusing more people.

 

It does not state that you only have to activate once. It does not state that you have to activate ten times. It states that you have to activate, leading to the inference that activations are required at intervals to be determined.

 

At the time of purchase, I've checked what I was buying and the following requirements: Incorporates 3rd-party DRM: Starforce ProActive. 10 concurrent machine activation limit. I read on how Starforce works (point system which determines whether your hardware upgrades are extensive to the point where it would count as new unique system, thus warranting a new activation). There is no chance for an average user to be asked to reactivate so many times as to run out of activations.

It's safe to assume then, that at least for the majority of users you seem to care about here, this would be one time action per computer and per module, regardless whether it would be online or offline activation.

 

Now you further agreed to the following in terms of section 3.2, and I quote:

 

“3.2 You acknowledge that the Program has not been developed to meet your individual requirements and that it is therefore your responsibility to ensure that the facilities and functions of the Program as described in the Documentation meet your requirements.”

 

As you can see, the onus is on you, the consumer, to ensure that you can activate the product as and when required via an Internet connection, as described, when you purchased the product. In this instance it's every fourth day, hopefully to be extended.

 

How about the case when requirements for activating and accessing the content or the method of access itself changes post purchase to the point that a customer or a group ends up with inability to access what they paid for, fully or partially(limited access)? Also note that EULA goes right out of window when customer laws and rights are not met, at the very least in the EU, so I wouldn't cling to its every word as some gospel.

 

Interpretation is a bugger :)

 

All that said, let's hope that TFC/ED can come up with a reasonable solution that will, if not placate all parties, at least placate the majority.

 

Playing devil's advocate is one thing, but having snide remarks on top of that about what's bugger won't really help anyone here.

 

But yes indeed, let's wait and see how ED implements the new drm first, since apparently it's already underway and what people think here of it is of secondary concern at best it seems. Somewhat amateurish, but maybe they have serious reasons for the sudden change. Until then, we can only keep pulling at each other's words, guess and assume.

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....Playing devil's advocate is one thing, but having snide remarks on top of that about what's bugger won't really help anyone here.....

 

You know, you had my undivided attention up and until that point right there. I was going to address your post, but I'll politely refrain.

 

Regarding the remark you apparently find 'snide',

 

I was trying to be helpful to the OP I addressed in the post you quoted, nothing more. I stated that 'Interpretation is a bugger' because it is precisely that: A bugger. One of the most difficult courses (Law of Interpretation) one undertakes when studying for one's law degrees, for reasons quite obvious to us that have gone through it and with a bit of forethought, to others as well - it's in the title. Also a veritable minefield when engaged in litigation where common law solely relies on the correct interpretation of any written judgement and indeed in statutory law as well.

 

You automatically inferring my intent to be 'snide' in that sentence is, well, what can I say. Thought I'd attempt to bring the intent across with a smiley face but that was apparently lost completely.

 

To Cnuke, if you also interpreted that sentence as being snide then I apologise unreservedly. As I said, interpretation is indeed a bugger it would seem.


Edited by 159th_Viper

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Really good to see this change in DRM, in general I loath being held to ransom by software companies, I should be able to play a game with out having to be tethered to the internet for any amount of time, as there may come a time I will disconnect from the internet permanently due to budget constraints. This means all my steam and DCSW based games would be unplayable after a few days of disconnection.

 

However, I am a realist and software developers have to protect there work, so I have to make a compromise, 7,14,30 days grace would be ok, I voted for 30 days but obviously would prefer never ;-{.

 

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speaking of the new protection system anybody having server access errors which wipes out the use of the harrier module

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