cichlidfan Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) I dunno about that statement, an acrobatic aircraft with all the power that a FM in DCS could bring, would be exciting, An FM in DCS is nothing special since the dev team can make any FM they want and call it an EFM, which means nothing. ED/DCS has not control over the FM being produced by the dev team. DCS is open ended in that regard which means a bad FM is just as possible as a good one. Edited December 14, 2017 by cichlidfan ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtz667 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 I dont mind you guys making the CE2, but i do mind that our lovely mig is not finished and receives no more attention :cry: GL Spoiler Modules: FC3, KA-50, MIG-21, F-18, F-14, UH-1H, Spitfire, F-5E, A-10c II, A-4E, SC, F-16, CA, M2000c, BF-109K-4, Mi-24P Terrains:Nevada, Persian gulf, Normandy + Asset pack, Syria PC setup:I7 8700k, 32g ram, m2 ssd, gtx 1080ti, Warthog TM, MFG crosswind, Playseat Air Force, Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted December 14, 2017 ED Team Share Posted December 14, 2017 An FM in DCS is nothing special since the dev team can make any FM they want and call it an EFM, which means nothing. ED/DCS has not control over the FM being produced by the dev team. DCS is open ended in that regard which means a bad FM is just as possible as a good one. Actually as far as I know checks have been put in place to verify FMs now. Each 3D Party dev should know what level their FM is, and they shouldn't state it any differently than how ED grades them. EFM means external Flight Model, which means the Flight model was created outside of ED studios. So it does mean something. As stated above, the 3rd Party should state at what level their EFM is at. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Actually as far as I know checks have been put in place to verify FMs now. Interesting. How does that work? ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted December 14, 2017 ED Team Share Posted December 14, 2017 Interesting. How does that work? Not my area of expertise, but I do believe the teams are required to submit charts and tests from their FM compared to that of their real world counterpart. This post was made sometime ago, and I believe it has evolved greatly since then. I recently saw such a report for a module, it's impressive and hurt my head a little :) https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=127280 Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Thanks. However, I have never seen a certification document, from ED, for any module that ensures that these tests have been done. Take, for example, the many FM iterations that the Mig-21 has undergone. It is impossible that all of them could pass this testing regimen, given how much they have deviated from each other with regard to performance. Is this test done for every patch/update? The above mentioned curves must be obtained using in-game flight tests or (that is easier) results of in-vitro calculation tool with addition of several points from in-game tests to prove the calculations. In this case all used math must be shown. All in-game tests must be conducted with constant fuel amount, excluding the case when the real-time test used for comparison was not recalculated for constant mass. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted December 14, 2017 ED Team Share Posted December 14, 2017 Thanks. However, I have never seen a certification document, from ED, for any module that ensures that these tests have been done. Take, for example, the many FM iterations that the Mig-21 has undergone. It is impossible that all of them could pass this testing regimen, given how much they have deviated from each other with regard to performance. Is this test done for every patch/update? I dont know the nitty gritty of it, I dont think these documents are shared with the public, most would probably have data they dont want to be let out. It's possible the MiG-21 isnt certified yet if it is still being changed so much. But I am unsure, that would be better for the Devs to comment on. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Thanks. However, I have never seen a certification document, from ED, for any module that ensures that these tests have been done. Take, for example, the many FM iterations that the Mig-21 has undergone. It is impossible that all of them could pass this testing regimen, given how much they have deviated from each other with regard to performance. Is this test done for every patch/update? This document is from 2014, Razbam M2000 achieved "released" status this year with such serious issues with FM that I really doubt these test were made, at least not on the final version. BTW, guys, hate to be grammar nazi, but: Acrobatics: Aerobatics: Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David OC Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Thanks. However, I have never seen a certification document, from ED, for any module that ensures that these tests have been done. Take, for example, the many FM iterations that the Mig-21 has undergone. It is impossible that all of them could pass this testing regimen, given how much they have deviated from each other with regard to performance. Is this test done for every patch/update? The only thing I have to go off here, are the IRL pilots Ive talked to, including pilots that (use to be) on that other forum you like to visit so much cichlidfan, they always preferred DCS to all the other sims FM's, are they perfect? possibly no, do they feel more real. Yes, is the team passionate about getting it mature, polished and as good as they can? Yes, from what I can see over the years. . i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaelu Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) BTW, guys, hate to be grammar nazi, but: I think in english you have this separation. In other languages is "Air Acrobatics"... french - acrobaties aériennes italian - acrobatica aerea spanish - acrobacia aérea portuguese - acrobacias aéreas romanian :P - acrobatie aeriana etc basically aerobatics is just a shortening of the expression. Edited December 14, 2017 by zaelu [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] I5 4670k, 32GB, GTX 1070, Thrustmaster TFRP, G940 Throttle extremely modded with Bodnar 0836X and Bu0836A, Warthog Joystick with F-18 grip, Oculus Rift S - Almost all is made from gifts from friends, the most expensive parts at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Even in English the term acrobatics is being used. See FAA regulations part 23.3. http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part23-3-FAR.shtml It's not English, it's 'Murican :D But since it is in official documents, I'm good with that :) Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Hole Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 As the owner of a Pitts S1S and a regular aerobatic competitor, I wish you well with the Eagle. It is a nice machine. Nothing like a Pitts of course, but nice!:D Aerobatics is my passion. Flight sims are a hobby. I have found that attempting to mix the two to be a big fat failure. Flight sims, and DCS in particular, do an amazing job mimicking flight smack in the middle of the envelope where 99% of pilots spend 100% of their time but they do a horrible job of modeling flight in the nether regions, areas of stalled and reversed airflow. Most of competition aerobatics is spent here. As a test bed to improve this situation, I see the Eagle as an excellent choice. I am certain that I am not the only DCS user who has actually flown it. It's commonality makes real world comparisons easy to get. The risk is that it will only serve to highlight how weak DCS can be. No one here flies a Bf109 so any doubt can be explained away. That luxury will not exist for the Eagle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 PITTS VS. EAGLE GO GO GO Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy_99 Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 I fly the 109 often in the ww2 servers great plane once the torque is mastered shes great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Hole Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 I meant a REAL 109. I agree that the virtual one is nice. But it suffers in certain regimes of the envelope where AOA is high and asymmetrical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsteel Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Sold! You guys have my full support in moving to new realms for DCS! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil 505 Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 You guys have my full support as well. Question and probably already know the answer. Being that there are no crazy systems to model such as weapons, military avionics ect..... will these aircraft be developed at a faster pace since I do not forsee the civilian side of aviation being as hard to gain rights too? I am by far no developer or have any clue the time dedicated to developing one of these modules, but logic would say it appears the hardest barrier for devs in the recent past is more advance avionics and systems for the military birds they are desiging. Either way, you got my money. Been flying since I was a kid. If you develop something that will get off the ground and is realistic to its real life counter part, I will buy it. Keep up the good work gents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Ball Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Day one buy for me too. Can't wait!:cheer3nc: 1 Find The Links To All My Mods And Liveries Here (in the gallery) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESAc_matador Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 We could make a dinâmica campaign vs supertucano hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny002 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I am looking forward to trying out the Christen Eagle II biplane for DCS world!!! Cheers, Vincent 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanix Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) So, what’s next; a car, a motorcycle, a boat; maybe the space shuttle? What about gliders? Schempp Hirth’s Arcus M/E; immediate buy! Really nice for FAC… https://www.schempp-hirth.com/en/sailplanes/arcus/arcus-e.html … now seriously; people come here for the ‘military/combat’ aspect… Kind regards, Xanix Edited January 7, 2018 by Xanix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javelina1 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 So, what’s next; a car, a motorcycle, a boat; maybe the space shuttle? What about gliders? Schempp Hirth’s Arcus M/E; immediate buy! Really nice for FAC… https://www.schempp-hirth.com/en/sailplanes/arcus/arcus-e.html … now seriously; people come here for the ‘military/combat’ aspect… Kind regards, Xanix you left out dirigibles... ;) MSI MAG Z790 Carbon, i9-13900k, NH-D15 cooler, 64 GB CL40 6000mhz RAM, MSI RTX4090, Yamaha 5.1 A/V Receiver, 4x 2TB Samsung 980 Pro NVMe, 1x 2TB Samsung 870 EVO SSD, Win 11 Pro, TM Warthog, Virpil WarBRD, MFG Crosswinds, 43" Samsung 4K TV, 21.5 Acer VT touchscreen, TrackIR, Varjo Aero, Wheel Stand Pro Super Warthog, Phanteks Enthoo Pro2 Full Tower Case, Seasonic GX-1200 ATX3 PSU, PointCTRL, Buttkicker 2, K-51 Helicopter Collective Control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadlag Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) I don't like to be negative but the Christian Eagle has no link to the military. Nada. The Yak that is coming was used by the military so just about sneaks in but only just. The Christain Eagle is taking the C out of DCS and I know it is being sold on the premise of not diverting resources but it is a worry to what direction the sim is going in. Are we to expect more non combat aircraft as it would only be fair for other third parties and ED to develop them as they are alot more simple are thus alot more profitable? The door is being opened and I suppose the Christian Eagle will test the water for this type of module. I have alot of modules and have supported new releases as I want to support DCS and see the development of interesting military aircraft in a realistic enviroment. I wont be buying as I do not want to see the sim go in this direction. I look forward to seeing and supporting LLC on their next miltary release and update of the mig21. Edited January 7, 2018 by leadlag Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlawal2 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Gee great Eightball... Now we can look forward to DCS UFO or DCS Butterfly next.. Nothing like watering down the only legitimate simulation left... Awesome.. (NOT) "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sceptre Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I feel like this is a repeat of when the P-51 got announced and many people wanted a modern aircraft only environment and were upset that ED was developing a warbird instead of something modern. Yet it has evolved into a seperate WWII theatre where people who enjoy WWII units can play DCS level aircraft there, and the profit generated from such a thing has helped ED to bring us the Hornet I'm sure. 1 RTX 2070 8GB | 32GB DDR4 2666 RAM | AMD Ryzen 5 3600 4.2Ghz | Asrock X570 | CH Fighterstick/Pro Throttle | TM MFDs | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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