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CE2... Why? Good? Bad?


MrSloanes

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I for one am looking forward to what this will give us... as I see the CE2 as pushing the limits of DCS capability in the piston engine regime.

 

The only thing this biplane will push is the ability of the flight model programmer to make something even vaguely resembling an aerobatic flight.

 

Whether something good will come out of it remains to be seen. Frankly, after a slew of below-average modules released by the 3rd parties which are well below the "DCS" level of fidelity set by ED, I remain sceptical.

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I know sadly someone could take my out of context poor joke and make an out of context comment about your comment. :( Such is the interwebs.

 

Yeah, when you eliminate the inflection of your voice by reducing everything to text, sarcasm becomes a more difficult thing to do.

Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!

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The F-16 is not the end all of the airplane's, I rather see a F-15C than any F-16. However I am just a player here.;)

There are 2 categories of fighter pilots: those who have performed, and those who someday will perform, a magnificent defensive break turn toward a bug on the canopy. Robert Shaw

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Just in case

 

Sorry sir, it was an IF sentence.. ok? Keep in mind the difference between : if and HAVE :pilotfly:

 

but may be they can combine dcs with farm simulator ? that may bring a ton of new programming companies.. imagine all that carrier landings with harvesters or strafing raids with massey fergusons ...:-)


Edited by BlueMax
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Sorry sir, it was an IF sentence.. ok? Keep in mind the difference between : if and HAVE :pilotfly:

 

but may be they can combine dcs with farm simulator ? that may bring a ton of new programming companies.. imagine all that carrier landings with harvesters or strafing raids with massey fergusons ...:-)

:) Have you ever checked out the Russian portion of the northern Caucasus on a real map? The place is littered with small aviation airfields for agricultural use. A crop duster would be right at home. Your Massey's and MTZ's could be folded into Combined Arms.

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Slew? You make it sound like there is more than that one module.

 

The Hawk is... well... unacceptable. The Gazelle... flight modeling is... below average. The MiG-21, while good looking, has quite a few issues which probably won't get fixed.

 

So, yeah. A slew of modules which need work.

My controls & seat

 

Main controls: , BRD-N v4 Flightstick (Kreml C5 controller), TM Warthog Throttle (Kreml F3 controller), BRD-F2 Restyling Bf-109 Pedals w. damper, TrackIR5, Gametrix KW-908 (integrated into RAV4 seat)

Stick grips:

Thrustmaster Warthog

Thrustmaster Cougar (x2)

Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS

BRD KG13

 

Standby controls:

BRD-M2 Mi-8 Pedals (Ruddermaster controller)

BRD-N v3 Flightstick w. exch. grip upgrade (Kreml C5 controller)

Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle

Pilot seat

 

 

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The Hawk is... well... unacceptable. The Gazelle... flight modeling is... below average. The MiG-21, while good looking, has quite a few issues which probably won't get fixed.

 

So, yeah. A slew of modules which need work.

Though work on the MiG-21bis has seemed to speed up, much still remains to fix. But at least fixes are coming out and we can all appreciate that. All that remains now is to hope that things get better. I personally am most looking forwards to the SPO-10 getting properly modeled, I hope that the reason it is not already done is that they are waiting for the new radar tech to get released.

DCS: MiG-23

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Make it happen, and take my money! :D

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put lasers and laser receivers on it and we can use it for online airquake...

 

king of the dogfight.

civilian air combat.

like paintball..

 

in VR it would probably be a lot of fun.

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...and we can use it for online airquake...

For the most part, that's what exists online now, anyway, regardless of the aircraft flown, isn't it? So bring it on... :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Bad if a significant amount of people buy it and you want to fly combat aircraft.

 

It will encourage more civillan aircraft development in DCS diverting resources from military aircraft development as civillian are alot more simple so less risky and more profitable.

 

Sorry but thats the way it is with the introduction of this module. The playing field/market for the devs is shifting within DCS and the CE2 is the test.


Edited by leadlag
Typo
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Just to add you have to look at this from a third party developers perspective.

 

You have spent many many hours and much money, risking developing a highly complex aircraft,carrier,AI, radar technologies,map etc.

 

Other studios release much more simple,civilian aircraft which sell and are highly profitable whilst having a military aircraft on their books which is still not finished.

 

Would that encourage you to take on such a military aircraft in the future?

 

Why take the risk and make the effort when the playing field has opened up to making much more simple and more profitable aircraft?

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Just to add you have to look at this from a third party developers perspective.

 

You have spent many many hours and much money, risking developing a highly complex aircraft,carrier,AI, radar technologies,map etc.

 

Other studios release much more simple,civilian aircraft which sell and are highly profitable whilst having a military aircraft on their books which is still not finished.

 

Would that encourage you to take on such a military aircraft in the future?

 

Why take the risk and make the effort when the playing field has opened up to making much more simple and more profitable aircraft?

On the contrary, it's much more risky to release a crop duster into a combat sim. True, it's easier to make one, but what if no one but a handful of enthusiasts buys it?

 

On the other hand, F-1*, while much more difficult to produce, will sell like hot cakes.

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On the contrary, it's much more risky to release a crop duster into a combat sim. True, it's easier to make one, but what if no one but a handful of enthusiasts buys it?

 

On the other hand, F-1*, while much more difficult to produce, will sell like hot cakes.

 

Not if the crop duster takes say- 1000 man hours to make and you get 20% of sales of a popular, complicated module that takes 10,000 man hours.

 

Risk of the upfront investment is much lower, ratio of profit is much higher so you can afford much lower sales

 

Hence why WW2 aircraft are much more profitable than more modern jets with complicated systems.


Edited by leadlag
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  • 2 weeks later...
Not if the crop duster takes say- 1000 man hours to make and you get 20% of sales of a popular, complicated module that takes 10,000 man hours.

 

Risk of the upfront investment is much lower, ratio of profit is much higher so you can afford much lower sales

 

Hence why WW2 aircraft are much more profitable than more modern jets with complicated systems.

 

But, there's always been a demand for 30s and 40s era piston fighters. A huge demand. This is a demand that goes back decades, even. These are the aircraft our great-grandfathers, grandfathers, and fathers flew in the war. This is something that has existed for decades, predating consumer flight simulation by quite some time.

 

This is very much a cultural facet more than anything else. So, to point at and proclaim that simple airframes are going to take over DCS at the exclusion of the sort of complex cold war to post cold war era fighters we want is to be extremely hyperbolic. Hyperbolic to the point of ridiculousness.

 

There's a mystique to the Spitfire, the 109, the Mustang, and others because they're legends. They're historical artifacts of a time of immense cruelty and bravery. They were blooded, along with the generation that flew them, in the most destructive conflict of human history.

 

If what you say were to be demonstrably true, then certainly the even simpler aircraft of the intra-war years would sell even better. Who's giving us DCS: P-26 Peashooter or DCS: Ba-27?

 

They certainly are less complex than 3rd and 4th gen fighters and that certainly does account for better profitability, it doesn't mean that simpler will always translate to more profitable. There's always going to be a degree of complexity that the DCS audience desires.

 

There's a dearth of evidence to suggest that a flood of civilian aircraft is coming to DCS.

 

Christen Eagle II

 

vs.

 

F/A-18C

F-14A/B

F-4E

Mi-24P

 

It was trainers last time, it'll be civvie aircraft this year, so now I wonder what will be the next fad that brings about the "END OF DIGITAL COMBAT SIMULATOR" that prompts so many to point out what the middle initial means, ad nauseam.


Edited by MiG21bisFishbedL

Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!

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  • 4 weeks later...

I get what Leadlag is saying, but in order for them to sell they still must be relatively interesting or have significant historical relevance and have some degree of popularity to be a viable project. Personally I think the best bet is 2nd and 3rd generation aircraft. Just my take on it.

 

But the issue with the retort to Digital Combat Simulator is not as big of an argument realistically than certain people seem to make out to be - there's a shop I know called Card Factory, yet there are helium balloons, gift boxes, wrapping paper, badges, ribbons and even soft toys. Just because it's Digital Combat Simulator doesn't mean we should always be restricted to just one or 2 types of aircraft forever, adding aircraft never ever subtracts anything from DCS it only adds.

 

Sure you can wish an aircraft - no-one has the right to tell you otherwise unless it's unrealistic/unfeasible, you can have your opinion on what should and shouldn't come to DCS but the fact of the matter is this. Out of all the flight simulators out there DCS appeals to me as being the best - sure you can't go anywhere you like, the weather system is crude and basic and is in need of overhaul, same for ATC, but in terms of actually simulating flight for multiple aircraft, while still having amazing graphics (so it also looks real, not just behaves realistically), while having the best potential for land and sea and not just air, plus it's damage model, plus it's future potential makes it the best for me, in my opinion. It's difficult because we have very few aircraft in comparison and demand is high for widely different aircraft with few developers producing them, so there has to be priority - but why should it mean that we should only see 1 type of aircraft? Especially when there are others in demand, that can serve as test-beds for new technologies, that are simpler to make, that are likely to have more full implementation of there systems. This goes for combat aircraft equally as it does civilian aircraft.

 

For me I'm only interested in civilian aircraft which are operated by military forces or have variants that are in the inventories of armed forces, past or present. There are some exceptions, but not many.

 

This is a potent ad nauseam but it will continue to do so, so long as there is difference of opinion - which there will always be.


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, Mi-24P, AV-8B N/A, AJS 37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

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  • 2 weeks later...
The Virtual Aerobatics teams have long been supporters of the franchise and deserve a place here.

I hope that this is only the beginning, Perhaps in the future DCS will support these groups with a virtual airshow add on.

 

i0Aip2Y.jpgvJHmiAq.jpg

What type of add on are you referring to? There are already virtual Thunderbirds, Blue Angeles, Red Arrows, and Warbird display teams. If I remember correctly there were at least two virtual airshows last year.

 

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If you can't appreciate the time, effort and art that goes into learning a taildragger, chances are you don't really appreciate actually flying, and chances are you have little to no hours in a real acft ;)

 

I keep throwing my credit card at the monitor for the CE2 and nothing happens...

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I would love for the game to support airshow training and performance type missions/campaigns. Jane's USAF had a Thunderbirds F-16 addon that had you flying solo patterns through gates much like what is possible in DCS missions. There as even a "Thunder Over Vegas" flight simulator based on the same flight/game engine as Xtreme Air Racing. But to have proper support for air show missions in a sim as realistic as DCS World would be fantastic.

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They have Gates you setup in the mission editor.

 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

Leonardo Da Vinci

 

 

"We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came."

John F. Kennedy

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yea or there's a little mod that gives you some nice big ones you can place anywhere.

personally I don't think the C.E is good.

if you wanna just do aerobatics, then use a military aircraft, its really more what this sim is about.

not far down the line we will have 747s doing round the map trips :)

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yea or there's a little mod that gives you some nice big ones you can place anywhere.

personally I don't think the C.E is good.

if you wanna just do aerobatics, then use a military aircraft, its really more what this sim is about.

not far down the line we will have 747s doing round the map trips :)

 

I get the idea it's an attempt to make some cash off of a testbed for their coming piston offerings.

 

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't sort of situation. I suppose going with the one that has some profit is better than the other. Plus, the aerobatic servers are pretty popular, anyways.

Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!

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