Need help for coordinates input over Normandy

[Spt]

Maybe there is a trick (like nttr) or maybe this is a bug, when I put coordinates on normandy map , the waypoint is very away of position expected .

 

Thanks

[unknown]

Now that you bring this topic up i tried it myself and i think it has something to do that you enter east and north coordinates in the ck37 but on normandy you get west and north coordinates on the F10 map. I'm a beginner in the Viggen and i didn't find any solution for that in the manual doing a quick search. But there must be a way because if you add a new landing airfield on the nttr map using the 99xx code the viggen directs you to the right airbase.

[PabstBleuRibbon]

Bump to this, I'd love to mess around with the CK37 on Normandy, but the computer expects N/E coordinates. Mayyyyybe we could get a TAKT function to switch long/lat hemispheres? :)

[Caput_58]

Another bump. I've just spent a good hour trying to troubleshoot E/W reversed coordinates on Normandy. I'm sure there is a way, because as others have said, airfield coordinates are storable.

[QuiGon]

I haven't encoutnered this problem as I'm only flying on the Caucasus till 2.5 comes out, but how did they make it work on NTTR? Does the NTTR solution not apply to Normandy as well?

[lemoen]

I haven't encoutnered this problem as I'm only flying on the Caucasus till 2.5 comes out, but how did they make it work on NTTR? Does the NTTR solution not apply to Normandy as well?

 

 

On NTTR you leave out the leading 1 for longitude i.e. 36° 6' 52.7292'' N and 115° 10' 22.1268'' W. becomes 360653 151022.

 

I used the Viggen on Normandy but used a flightplan from the ME. I guess one can look at such coordinates displayed then just enter them in that way.

[Snowman]

The 0-meridian is going through the Normandy map so the longitude coordinates will almost always exist in two places on the map. Example 012000E and 012000W both exist on the Normandy map. The CK37 computer doesn't have any way to tell a difference between this as far as I know.

 

I hope Heatblur and/or ED have a solution to this.

 

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[Korroz]

Considering the input limitations of the CK37 it would seem to have been designed to operate in quarter(ish) hemispheres. Sweden, as it happens is comfortably contained within the first 99 degrees east in the north hemisphere, which is probably why.

 

Now the question is, was the CK37 hardcoded to only work within that constraint, or was there a way to tweak those assumptions that it makes?

It might depend on what underlying data type the CK37 used for it's coordinates.

 

Does anyone know how this was dealt with in the real life Viggen?

Perhaps all you need is an offset setting in the CK37, instead of having flags for N/S and W/E. Actually, that's probably what I'd have done if I was an engineer at that time, haha. That would also explain a little how NTTR could work, but I still wonder how that stacks up to reality.

 

As an anecdote, I discovered this coordinate confusion as I tried out the RB-15 for the first time. I must have tried to enter the coordinates for the missile 5-6 times, confirming that the numbers read back alright and everything, but when I approached the target to fire there was always a red light and no symbology where I expected. Pretty confusing but eventually I saw what was going on. Luckily, leaving Bx6-9 undefined and radar fixing Bx8 gives you a standard layout and you can fix each missile markpoint after that. Less pre-planned as I wanted but at least no show-stopper.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Korroz
Embarrasing typo.

[Holton181]

Sweden, as it happens is comfortably contained within the first 99 degrees west in the north hemisphere...

??????????

West-most: 10°57′27″E

East-most: 24°10′00″E

It's pretty much an "Eastern country"...

[Korroz]

Ugh, what an embarrassing typo. Yeah, east is what I meant.

[renhanxue]

Considering the input limitations of the CK37 it would seem to have been designed to operate in quarter(ish) hemispheres. Sweden, as it happens is comfortably contained within the first 99 degrees east in the north hemisphere, which is probably why.

 

Now the question is, was the CK37 hardcoded to only work within that constraint, or was there a way to tweak those assumptions that it makes?

It might depend on what underlying data type the CK37 used for it's coordinates.

 

Does anyone know how this was dealt with in the real life Viggen?

 

It's actually significantly more restrictive in reality than it is in DCS. In reality, the computer only supports input of longitudes greater than 0° but less than 40°, and latitudes larger than 40° but less than 90°. Roughly speaking, it supports longitudes from Greenwich in the west to Yaroslavl in the east, and latitudes from the North Pole to Madrid in the south. One upside of this is that you can enter latitude and longitude in any order on the real aircraft - the two coordinates have different numerical ranges and the computer can automatically detect which is which.

 

This was hardcoded as far as I am aware, and not only on the AJ 37 - it was the same on all the other Viggen variants, including the JA 37 all the way up to the JA 37C, despite its much more modern computer. I guess the very last Viggen variant - the short-lived JA 37Di, which was specifically intended for international interoperability - might have changed it though, but I'm not actually sure. I guess if they had ever exported the Viggen they would've needed to fix this, but as it was, no Viggen ever left Europe and it was never an issue. Sweden did not have any territorial expansionist or power projection intentions and the aircraft was plenty capable in its intended area of operations. At air shows in the UK or in France I guess they relied on paper maps. Here's the relevant section from the JA 37C's English flight manual (note the references to the data link system which didn't exist on the AJ 37 - an air combat controller on the ground can upload waypoints directly to your aircraft, among other things):

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by renhanxue

[Korroz]

Sweet info, thanks Renhanxue.

 

But yeah, this poses a problem for Heatblur since the AOs in DCS is pretty much outside of that zone. I suppose implementing DCS specific TAKT codes for coordinate input would introduce the least amount of deviation from the real thing though.

[Apache600]

Bumping for recognition. Any progress made on this to remedy the issue with Normandy and Ref LOLA?

[QuiGon]

Still an issue (although it's true to the real bird).

[SGT Coyle]

So I guess a Falklands adventure is out of the question.

 

[QuiGon]

23 minutes ago, SGT Coyle said:

So I guess a Falklands adventure is out of the question.

The Falklands don't have the same problem that Normandy has, with the prime meridian running through it and thus having east and west coordinates alike.

Edited November 22, 2021 by QuiGon

[SGT Coyle]

23 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

The Falklands don't have the same problem that Normandy has, with the prime meridian running through it and thus having east and west coordinates alike.

 

I'm thinking more of a North South thing.  Do we have any Maps South of equator?

[QuiGon]

40 minutes ago, SGT Coyle said:

I'm thinking more of a North South thing.  Do we have any Maps South of equator?

Not yet, but same logic should apply

[SGT Coyle]

13 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

Not yet, but same logic should apply

That's what I thought.  You have to forgive my pessimistic leanings.  I follow "O'Toole's Law"- Murphy was an optimist.

[Machalot]

1 hour ago, QuiGon said:

Not yet, but same logic should apply

I think it would just assume all latitude is south, similar to using all west latitude in Nevada. 

[QuiGon]

55 minutes ago, Machalot said:

I think it would just assume all latitude is south, similar to using all west latitude in Nevada. 

Yeah, that's what I meant. Heatblur probably has to implement a quick map check for the Falkland map first, so it might not work right away when the Falkland map releases.