Nozzle hover stop wrong in cockpit

[Bravo]

So I checked that 81-83 degrees are the limits which within the nozzle should be when the nozzle control lever hits the nozzle hover stop position. I find that when I put them flush in the pit it gives me 77 degrees and not 82.

 

Now I see that the witches hat(depressed attitude symbol) on some of the hud tapes usually rest at about 2 degrees down, in the sim its level. But the only info I could find in the NATOPS says it should be 8 degrees below the waterline. I have no idea which is right but something I am not sure if is a bug or not is that on the hud tapes the aircraft they seem to have it around level or slightly above the horizontal line to keep level speed. I find that with 82 degrees nozzle it must be at about 1,5-2 degrees up to keep level speed. Can anyone else confirm that they are experiencing the same?

[The LT]

Yes, I am experiencing the same.

[104th_Maverick]

 

From United States Marine Corps AV-8B Flight Syllabus Guide

 

 

From the United States Navy AV-8B Flight Manual

 

 

 

The nose is slightly up in the Hover Stop position at Hover, 8 Degrees below the waterline would give you a lot of forward momentum.

Edited December 24, 2017 by [Maverick]

[GinGin]

Same findings than you Bravo.

 

I explained in depth the witches hat stuff here

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=197392

 

On the last update, they fixed the nose rest attitude which is now at 6 ° nose up on the ground. That is a good point.

 

However, witches hat are still at 6 ° degrees below waterline( almost on the horizon on the ground) instead of 8 ( 2 ° below horizon on the ground)

 

For now in game, when we put the witches hat on horizon for the hover attitude (as describe in Natops manual), we are hovering at a 6 ° nose up attitude ( so 84 ° of nozzles required in game)

 

Like you mention, to have the proper hover attitude ( nose attitude of 8 °), we have to put the witches hat 2 ° above horizon instead of 0°

 

In that configuration, with hat 2° above horizon, 8 ° of pitch up and hover stop of 82 ° of nozzle, we are in the correct hovering attitude as per natops.

 

So I guess witches hat just need to be fixed at 8 ° below waterline instead of 6 to have our 8 ° attitude with hat on horizon when hovering with 82 ° of nozzles

 

 

 

The nose is slightly up in the Hover Stop position at Hover, 8 Degrees below the waterline would give you a lot of forward momentum.

The thing is to have that hat on the horizon during hovering to have the correct nose up attitude, so no forward momentum with hover stop selected Edited December 24, 2017 by GinGin

[Bravo]

Thanks for the clarifications and the link :-)

GinGin do I understand you correctly that you usually select 84° of nozzles to hover?

It actually seems to be correct in the DCS 2.2 with the witches hat 8°below the waterline.

and that its different in the open beta. where I noticed this.

 

So Im guessing the only thing then is that the visual representation of where the hover stop position is in the cockpit should be moved a little aft to line up with the 82° of nozzle.

 

Merry Christmas everyone

Edited December 24, 2017 by Bravo

[ChickenSim]

The stuff described so far in this thread is actually three problems all causing confusion.

 

1. The Nozzle Lever animation doesn't align properly with the actual nozzle position.

 

2. Certain HUD symbology is supposed to depress in V/STOL mode. The heading tape, airspeed, and attitude indicators are supposed to drop down approximately 2° in V/STOL mode.

 

In NAV and A/G the waterline reference is an invisible horizontal line across the tops of the airspeed and attitude indicators. In V/STOL the waterline reference becomes a horizontal line between the heading tape tick marks and the numbers. The actual waterline of the aircraft doesn't change, just the positions of the reference symbology in the HUD.

 

3. The Witch's Hat is supposed to be 8° below the waterline (in V/STOL mode, this is supposed to be 8° below the centerline of the heading tape).

 

Once all this is fixed, you should be hovering with nozzles at 82° and the Witch's Hat on the horizon (0° on the pitch ladder).

 

In the attached screenshot, the HUD symbology should be roughly at the aqua positions when in V/STOL mode.

[GinGin]

@Chicken: very good sum up

 

@Bravo: Yes, when hovering ( for now) with the hat on horizon, I found that stability point is more around 84° of nozzles, which makes sense with the 6° of nose up.

 

For the 2.2 version, the pitch attitude on ground was wrong ( 2 or 3 ° instead of the 5 or 6 ° we have now in dcs 1.5 ), so hat were still at 6 ° below waterline in 2.2 also.

 

Look at the third page and pictures on that topic, you will see better what I mean with the change in nose attitude at rest on ground.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=197392

[Fri13]

Little off-topic, but still in topic about hovering angle...

 

Doesn't the nozzle leveler have a notches (the holes) that allows the pilot easily just unpin the leveler and slide it near wanted angle, release the pin and then move leveler so pin locks the leveler in place?

 

This so that pilot can easily get the correct angle and then that in fast situations pilot doesn't accidentally change leveler angle.

[Capn kamikaze]

Little off-topic, but still in topic about hovering angle...

 

Doesn't the nozzle leveler have a notches (the holes) that allows the pilot easily just unpin the leveler and slide it near wanted angle, release the pin and then move leveler so pin locks the leveler in place?

 

This so that pilot can easily get the correct angle and then that in fast situations pilot doesn't accidentally change leveler angle.

 

If it does that sounds incredibly dangerous.

[ChickenSim]

@Fri, the nozzle lever in real life freely slides up and down and isn't notched.

 

You may be referring to the STO Stop Lever which is pinned to allow easier selection of a preplanned nozzle position between 35-75 degrees in 5 degree increments. This lever can also be pinned into place in a stowed position at full forward nozzles (98.5). [Maverick]'s quoted section talks about its use. This lever exists in game but doesn't yet pin into place in the proper increments.

 

There is also the physical Hover Stop which is a groove in the rail that the nozzle lever slides in which corresponds to 81-83 degrees. This also exists as an animation but isn't actually a barrier to the nozzle lever in function and doesn't properly correspond to the nozzle position (which the OP is referencing).

 

In real life the STO Stop can be overidden by pulling the nozzle lever up and over it, and the Hover Stop is overidden by pushing the nozzle lever out of the way of the stop and pulling it back along the track. Both are designed to allow the pilot to rapidly select either position without needing to look down at the lever itself.

[Terry Dactil]

I find this helps me.

If you have the Warthog throttle, use the slider for setting nozzle position and map the detent to 84º (or 82º)

[Sarge55]

Thanks Terry. When I get home I'll give it a try.

[Eldur]

Checked the slider box and set Sat X to 83. This makes the axis go from 0° to 82°. Anything above that isn't that critical, so I mapped nozzles down to the red button to get past the hover stop. I don't have precise control between 82° and 98.5°, but that's no big deal.

 

But I propose to change the hotkey mechanism for the STO stop handle. First it was 5° steps per key press, now it's much less, so it's not a good idea to use keys for it. Since there's no axis control either, we're stuck with the mouse grab. Key presses should just advance it by one detent back and forth and the 98.5° position respectively.

[Nealius]

What stick are you using? Both the nozzles and STO stop can be assigned an axis.

 

I would recommend keeping some way to allow you to get more than 82-degrees. You'll need the full range of motion for Power Nozzle Braking if you don't want to blow tires on non-vertical landings.

[Eldur]

What stick are you using? Both the nozzles and STO stop can be assigned an axis.

 

FFB2 + TM Warthog throttle + MFG CW pedals mainly.

 

I guess it's not possible, just the nozzle angle can be assigned

 

join(res.axisCommands,{

{action = iCommandPlaneRoll           , name = _('Roll')},
{action = iCommandPlanePitch       , name = _('Pitch')},
{action = iCommandPlaneRudder       , name = _('Rudder')},
{action = iCommandPlaneThrustCommon, name = _('Thrust')},
{action = iCommandPlaneCollective,  name = _('Nozzle Angle')},
{action = iCommandWheelBrake,        name = _('Wheel Brakes')},
{action = iCommandLeftWheelBrake,    name = _('Wheel Brake Left')},
{action = iCommandRightWheelBrake,    name = _('Wheel Brake Right')},

--HOTAS TDC
{action = iCommandPlaneSelecterHorizontalAbs, name = _('TDC Slew Horizontal')},
{action = iCommandPlaneSelecterVerticalAbs    , name = _('TDC Slew Vertical')},

})

 

I would recommend keeping some way to allow you to get more than 82-degrees. You'll need the full range of motion for Power Nozzle Braking if you don't want to blow tires on non-vertical landings.

 

I mapped the red button to increase the nozzle angle, so I get the full range, but no precise control past 82°. Probably I could map this to the idle cutoff detent, but I'd have to mess around with the TARGET software to get there.

[funkyfranky]

Add the line

{action = engine_commands.Handle_NOZZLE_STO_STOP, cockpit_device_id = devices.VREST, name = _('STO Stop Lever')},

and you get an axis for the STO stop lever.