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F14 is old ... whats the big deal?


JonTex

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Obviously not GG. You forgot about the F-14's ion thrusters that give it fantastic energy in every concievable portion of ANY flight envelope (i.e. extends to missile and space envelopes). Factor in it's magnetic forcefield shielding that protects it from AMRAAMs and SA-10s as well as its AIM-54 proton missiles and the F/A-18 is no competition.

 

What was the USN thinking, giving up such cutting edge technology for such a conventional fighter like the Hornet.

 

Even the Chuck Norris of air supremacy fighters, the F-22 Raptor itself, would be hard-pressed to deal with the formidable Tomcat.

 

Dont forget that the Tomcat is so fast it can circle the globe and shoot itself in the ass. Thats how that one Tomcat exploded in mid-air that looked like it just blew up.

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yea would have to agree ....... in conclusion we wouldnt sell weapons to Iran for two very important undeniable reasons.

 

1.) F14 is a weapon system , outdated or not, it must be recognized as such so ... dont sell to Note to self: dont sell to Iran.

 

2.) Iran is a potential enemy so Note to Self: Help Iran as little as possible.

 

As far as the F14 vs F18E/F scenarios well I think we have to accept some givens to squash this arguement. Given that the aircraft are in tip top condition to fly. This is a pilots game of chess where the better man wins. Everything else is left up to life ... and in the game of life as far as war is conscerned

Murphy's Law: anything that can happen will happen

 

so everything from mechanical failure to pilot error can and will plague the success of the F18 vs F14. And the mighty Tex has spoken .... thats my word can you dig it? .....:D :joystick:

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Dont forget that the Tomcat is so fast it can circle the globe and shoot itself in the ass. Thats how that one Tomcat exploded in mid-air that looked like it just blew up.

 

How many times do i seriously gotta tell you that you need:helpsmilie::helpsmilie:!!!!!!!!!!!:doh:

 

Obviously somebody does not know much about engines and when something unknown gets blown into them it is a really big problem. Even with a crappy little bug or I mean MIG, the engine will still blow up if something entered/got stuck in it.

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How many times do i seriously gotta tell you that you need:helpsmilie::helpsmilie:!!!!!!!!!!!:doh:

 

Obviously somebody does not know much about engines and when something unknown gets blown into them it is a really big problem. Even with a crappy little bug or I mean MIG, the engine will still blow up if something entered/got stuck in it.

 

 

show us YOUR knowledge then since you got a cousin here and there that know everything and share all this information with you hey if they even leak it to you...you know what i mean? :D I think its one of those "F-16 has no tailhook" situations.

 

Flip

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"Imagine the reason that people hold on to

hatred so stubbornly is because if the hate

is removed, the pain will set in. Do not follow where

the path may lead. Go instead where there is

no path and leave a trail."

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The AIM-54 looks like it has a pretty good record according the info on wiki

 

"Iranian kill counts by AIM-54 missile

 

It is estimated that during the Iran-Iraq war 1980-1988, from reports from pilots on both sides, guncamera/TISEO films, examination of wreckage, local and foreign intelligence and other sources, that on total the IRIAF F-14As scored 130 confirmed and 23 probable aerial victories. Iran launched possibly 70 to 90 AIM-54A missiles, and 60-70 of those scored. In one instance four Iraqi fighters were shot down by a single Phoenix. Twice two Iraqi fighters were destroyed with a single missile.

All in all, almost 90 % of the AIM-54A missiles fired by Iranian F-14s in combat were used against Iraqi fighters and fighter-bombers. Only about a dozen victories by AIM-54s were against fast, high-flying targets like MiG-25s or Tu-22s. This performance was surprising, especially as the missile was designed for fleet defence, against large targets, not nimble fighters.

Iranian F-14 pilot, Major Ali, made the following conclusion from the Iranian use of F-14s and Phoenix missiles:

"When I look back at our service record with the jet I look beyond its exceptional performance as purely an interceptor. We used it to escort fighters and tankers and flew many radar-reconnaissance missions as mini-AWACS for the protection of others in the air and on the ground. No air defence system has even proven so effective."

Iranian F-14 pilots also regularly engaged enemy forces in traditional dogfights, using their cannon and Sidewinder missiles to good effect."

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The AIM-54 has a pretty large warhead. If the fighters that were attacked were flying finger-tip, this is a /possible/ result, especially if it was a fuze against these targets isntead of direct hit (IMHO) ... but it still sounds a bit fantastic ;)

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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The exerpt from the 4 planes shotdown is from the book 'Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat'. As far as I can remember, 3 of the kills are confirmed and the 4th is a probable ( it was damaged and was suposed a plane that crashed minutes later, therefore only the probable ).

 

Apart from beeing a confirmed shotdown this is not a unprobable affair at all. The iraqi fighters had none or poor RWR only and often the first sign of Tomcat attack was the lead aircraft blowing up. The AIM-54's large warhead could easely blow up multiple aircraft in close formation.

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fighters not knowing what was inbound!
that's what I'm talking about.

 

The iraqi fighters had none or poor RWR
So, thinkig that 54 would be even close to this performance against a more formidable opponent is purely suicidal.

Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us.

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yup, our beloved friend corsair did and spewed alot of hate while trying to convince us all :D

 

Flip

 

Wow. Did someone say the F-16 had no tail hook? :huh:

madrebel.png

sig.jpg

"Imagine the reason that people hold on to

hatred so stubbornly is because if the hate

is removed, the pain will set in. Do not follow where

the path may lead. Go instead where there is

no path and leave a trail."

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Guest IguanaKing

Wow!!! I guess all of my memories of having been trained for pilot rescue on that aircraft were implanted by Recall, Inc. :cry: I came across the thread about the F-14 having no sink rate too. Priceless!!! I wonder if the multitudes of Naval aviators he knows have ever told him the Navy/Marine Corps mantra about landing an aircraft..."Flaring to land is like squatting to pee." :D

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:D :D hahahahah! So youre a firerescue guy if i understand correctly?! Do you have a link to that thread? Man i need a good start for this funny night tonight :D

 

Flip

 

Wow!!! I guess all of my memories of having been trained for pilot rescue on that aircraft were implanted by Recall, Inc. :cry: I came across the thread about the F-14 having no sink rate too. Priceless!!! I wonder if the multitudes of Naval aviators he knows have ever told him the Navy/Marine Corps mantra about landing an aircraft..."Flaring to land is like squatting to pee." :D

madrebel.png

sig.jpg

"Imagine the reason that people hold on to

hatred so stubbornly is because if the hate

is removed, the pain will set in. Do not follow where

the path may lead. Go instead where there is

no path and leave a trail."

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How many times do i seriously gotta tell you that you need:helpsmilie::helpsmilie:!!!!!!!!!!!:doh:

 

Obviously somebody does not know much about engines and when something unknown gets blown into them it is a really big problem. Even with a crappy little bug or I mean MIG, the engine will still blow up if something entered/got stuck in it.

 

I seriously doubt Im the one in need of :helpsmilie: :helpsmilie: :helpsmilie: here. [sarcasm] Ill ask my cousin who currently flies the F-14 Tomcat and ask HIM if it could own the world. Then Ill ask him if the range on the aim-54x is greater than 280 miles. Then Ill go on to make more dumbass claims about what the Tomcat can do and all that other bullsh*t.[/sarcasm] And a last thing is that Ill go around the forums telling everyone this stupid crap and say everything else sucks. The Tomcat is retired, the Tomcat is useless now, its pointless to not only debate about it but not only is it pointless, its also akin to drinking bad milk. It sucks.

 

Im sure those engines blew up on their own. Im even more sure it is so fast the pilot shot himself down. You ACT like you invented the f*cking thing. You didnt. Back up, sit down and act like you need to stfu.

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Guest IguanaKing
:D :D hahahahah! So youre a firerescue guy if i understand correctly?! Do you have a link to that thread? Man i need a good start for this funny night tonight :D

 

Flip

 

Not for about 16 years now. After that, I was also the guy elected to take the pilot rescue training course given by the Colorado Air National Guard at the civilian airport I have worked on for the last 15. Heh...I'm the only guy who took that course who is still there, so if the shiznit ever hits the fan, I guess I'm up. :noexpression: Gawd, I pray we never see that day though. The day I'm rescuing a wounded Viper driver landing at an alternate due to battle damage...well...that is not a good day for anyone. But, I won't have to worry about getting killed by an inadvertent blowdown of the hook, or about getting sucked into the engine, or getting burned by the canopy jettison rockets. :D

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@ Iguana: Wow! Well i respect Rescuecrews very much, you guys do a difficult job. Thanks for the link. I wish i could get you the link to the tailhook thread but its at the virtual tbirds forum and i dont have time to access that right now. Go check it out it should still be there.

 

@ Hitman: yup

 

FLip

madrebel.png

sig.jpg

"Imagine the reason that people hold on to

hatred so stubbornly is because if the hate

is removed, the pain will set in. Do not follow where

the path may lead. Go instead where there is

no path and leave a trail."

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"Why does everything on here have to get soo technical and exact from everybody?" AHAHAHAHAHAHHA Oh man geez i crack myself up phheew....Well ..One thing to clarify, its not a normal ILS glideslope because it wouldnt be steep enough if it were.

 

Cheers, that just made my evening!!!

 

:D

 

Flip

madrebel.png

sig.jpg

"Imagine the reason that people hold on to

hatred so stubbornly is because if the hate

is removed, the pain will set in. Do not follow where

the path may lead. Go instead where there is

no path and leave a trail."

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Euhhh ... is there not some kind of misunderstanding here? I thought it was the F-4E Phantom II that is the one and only fighter jet of all times? You know, with real men & stuff and fighting some real Vietcong?

 

Dunno about these fancy toys you guys are talking about but the Phantom at least smokes and drinks like a grown-up! And tailhook, damn, yes, it has a big tailhook! I bet it was the biggest!

 

I hope this helps out? :D

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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