A question for Wags and or ED about the DCS: F/A-18C!

[Spudknocker]

I have a question for you Eagle Dynamics or Wags about the F/A-18C Hornet coming to DCS World...

 

What made you guys choose the F/A-18C as your new flagship module for DCS World? Why the Legacy Hornet over say a Viper, F-4 Phantom or even an F-14 Tomcat which are all incredibly well known.

 

Would you guys ever consider creating a developer diary video or article showing the process of creating the hornet? It would be very interesting because this seems to have been a truly monumental project from the get go.

 

I know the first question has been answered in bits and pieces across multiple posts and interviews but I'm interested in the thought process and business decisions behind the new DCS: F/A-18C as an Av Geek, huge DCS fan and customer of your awesome company!

[Bullant]

There are third party developers already working on the Tomcat and Phantom.

[Mr_Burns]

A lot of people, me included love the flir, laser, moving map and all those things that come with modern era aircraft.

 

Like the A-10C and AV8B this is the area that I, and a lot of simmers want and will pay for.

 

I also imagine that modelling these systems will allow a greater number of other aircraft which use similar systems, so in that case it will open doors for third parties to use the models, such as the F-16, Tornado, perhaps one day the EFA, Rafale and a number of others.

 

IMO, the Tomcat and Phantom, as mentioned by AndrewW can already be built on the current systems, hence the Mirage 2000 and other 3rd parties.

 

Whilst I dont know anything about ED's decision and I know you asked them specifically, WW2 is pretty much now open season to third parties as is 3rd Gen/ Tomcat/ Phantom hence the 3rd parties are free to fill their boots depending on financial demand.

 

This is why I think the F-18C is a great choice for ED, in short:

 

Popular aircraft - large user base.

Sim multiplier opening simulated systems to 3rd parties and DCS.

Brings in other elements such as naval (I know Phantom does for carriers but F/A-18c has anti ship) and more modern conflicts.

Will be the most accurate simulation of a modern aircraft- hence Flagship.

[Spudknocker]

Oh ya I get all that stuff I was just hoping to see if we could get a little peak behind the curtain and have a glimpse into ED's decision making process when it comes to that. But I totally agree and cant wait for the Belsimtek F-4 and heatblur F-14 thats for sure!

[bC3660]

Dose the F/A-18C come with the hormuz map?

[Wags]

Oh ya I get all that stuff I was just hoping to see if we could get a little peak behind the curtain and have a glimpse into ED's decision making process when it comes to that. But I totally agree and cant wait for the Belsimtek F-4 and heatblur F-14 thats for sure!

 

Will discuss a bit in the full manual.

[grunf]

Dose the F/A-18C come with the hormuz map?

No, it will be a separate DLC.

[OttoPus]

Would you guys ever consider creating a developer diary video or article showing the process of creating the hornet? It would be very interesting because this seems to have been a truly monumental project from the get go.

 

That would be a very welcome bonus content (without giving away the secret sauce of course ) :thumbup:

[mig29movt]

Will discuss a bit in the full manual.

 

Great! I always enjoy the Introduction, History and Design parts of the Manuals :thumbup:

[bC3660]

No, it will be a separate DLC.

Thanks!

[Ala13_ManOWar]

I have a question for you Eagle Dynamics or Wags about the F/A-18C Hornet coming to DCS World...

 

What made you guys choose the F/A-18C as your new flagship module for DCS World? Why the Legacy Hornet over say a Viper, F-4 Phantom or even an F-14 Tomcat which are all incredibly well known.

 

Would you guys ever consider creating a developer diary video or article showing the process of creating the hornet? It would be very interesting because this seems to have been a truly monumental project from the get go.

 

I know the first question has been answered in bits and pieces across multiple posts and interviews but I'm interested in the thought process and business decisions behind the new DCS: F/A-18C as an Av Geek, huge DCS fan and customer of your awesome company!

From memory and don't take my word as absolute certain and/or events order/dates as fully correct,

 

I remember Hornet was announced like almost 10 years ago as the next "module" (not even module, there were no modules back then, probably stand alone simulator) to be developed after A-10C release (stand alone, together with Ka-50 stand alone). Then many things came across ED's path,

 

-v1.0.1 in which Ka-50 and A-10 could "see" each other in MP,

 

-so why not make it DCSW common version in which all the stand alone simulators became "modules" and not just MP compatible separated simulators,

 

-then ED having to take over a third party unfinished Nevada map promised to be a couple with Warthog by a vanished third party,

 

-but P-51 "demonstrator" was released because The Fighter Collection being a partner, first DCSW module IIRC,

 

-then new engine should be developed in order to hold new maps and Nevada to start with, Nevada redone from scratch,

 

-but RRG scam that ED had to take over again making honour to an external Kickstarter made the wait even longer,

 

-once being here why not enhance even more the game engine,

 

-then… I think you would remember the recent history ;) .

 

 

I believe they delayed Hornet about that time due to problems to find suitable information for the module, and IIRC some problems with Boeing being tough to achieve an agreement. Luckily we had many modules to taste in the way :) .

 

 

S!

[Sarge55]

All that and developing an A/G radar for the first time.

[Kev2go]

From memory and don't take my word as absolute certain and/or events order/dates as fully correct,

 

I remember Hornet was announced like almost 10 years ago as the next "module" (not even module, there were no modules back then, probably stand alone simulator) to be developed after A-10C release (stand alone, together with Ka-50 stand alone). Then many things came across ED's path,

 

-v1.0.1 in which Ka-50 and A-10 could "see" each other in MP,

 

-so why not make it DCSW common version in which all the stand alone simulators became "modules" and not just MP compatible separated simulators,

 

-then ED having to take over a third party unfinished Nevada map promised to be a couple with Warthog by a vanished third party,

 

-but P-51 "demonstrator" was released because The Fighter Collection being a partner, first DCSW module IIRC,

 

-then new engine should be developed in order to hold new maps and Nevada to start with, Nevada redone from scratch,

 

-but RRG scam that ED had to take over again making honour to an external Kickstarter made the wait even longer,

 

-once being here why not enhance even more the game engine,

 

-then… I think you would remember the recent history ;) .

 

 

I believe they delayed Hornet about that time due to problems to find suitable information for the module, and IIRC some problems with Boeing being tough to achieve an agreement. Luckily we had many modules to taste in the way :) .

 

 

S!

 

 

Actually not just that it seems the hornet may have been remodleeled from scratch.

 

If you find photos from a few years ago you will see that those early wip photos are resembling that of a earlier 90s era hornet. Whilst the lot 20 ed is representing is not only last batch produced for the na y but also a 2000s modernized hornet

 

 

 

 

Most notably you can tell because in earlier who screens they lacked the hmd control and had the mpcd display instead of the ampcd as well as an older ew/ cm panel that in the lot 20 is now a sparse spot because the cm management in now done through the displays.

 

Anyways it seems ed was very intent on producing as much modern a legacy hornet they could from open source information even willing to go back and redo the hornet once work was already started, when they came across more.

 

They even detailed they kept the older cm placeholder in the current hornet until they found more data on the current one. Again remodelling changes.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Kev2go

[SkateZilla]

From memory and don't take my word as absolute certain and/or events order/dates as fully correct,

 

I remember Hornet was announced like almost 10 years ago as the next "module" (not even module, there were no modules back then, probably stand alone simulator) to be developed after A-10C release (stand alone, together with Ka-50 stand alone). Then many things came across ED's path,

 

-v1.0.1 in which Ka-50 and A-10 could "see" each other in MP,

 

-so why not make it DCSW common version in which all the stand alone simulators became "modules" and not just MP compatible separated simulators,

 

-then ED having to take over a third party unfinished Nevada map promised to be a couple with Warthog by a vanished third party,

 

-but P-51 "demonstrator" was released because The Fighter Collection being a partner, first DCSW module IIRC,

 

-then new engine should be developed in order to hold new maps and Nevada to start with, Nevada redone from scratch,

 

-but RRG scam that ED had to take over again making honour to an external Kickstarter made the wait even longer,

 

-once being here why not enhance even more the game engine,

 

-then… I think you would remember the recent history ;) .

 

 

I believe they delayed Hornet about that time due to problems to find suitable information for the module, and IIRC some problems with Boeing being tough to achieve an agreement. Luckily we had many modules to taste in the way :) .

 

 

S!

 

 

F/A-18C was IIRC Was Officially Announced as being the Next ED Modern Fighter Module on the Level of A-10C back in 2013/2014, Not 10 years ago.

People Speculated when the new F/A-18C Model Appeared in DCS World 1.2.1 Update Late Sept. 2012.

 

F/A-18C Development was not stated as being "in Progress" until September 2014, and it was also stated as being a very LONG development time:

A-10C By itself took about 3 years.

 

 

In the meantime, the F/A-18C Hornet is still planned but we want it to be at the same level as our A-10C. Because of this, development will take much longer compared to the Eagle and Flanker projects to be released this year.

 

 

DCS: F/A-18C Hornet Update

 

Perhaps the most eagerly awaited DCS module, the Hornet, is indeed in progress... it really does exist! More so than any other of our past and current projects though, the Hornet requires a massive amount of work, not just the creating of the art assets and programming of the cockpit functions, but also a great deal of research, design documentation, building of supersonic aircraft flight dynamics (F-15C with BST and Su-27 have been helping to create this technology), acquiring source data, and creating several new technologies like air-to-surface radar.

 

In addition to the actual aircraft, there are other elements that need to be created such as an improved Nimitz-class aircraft carrier, much better carrier operations, and a new combat theater map tailored to this aircraft.

 

We hear you and realize that many of you are very anxious and looking forward to hearing more about this project. As we get closer to an early beta, we will be discussing this more.

 

Here are some very early images of the cockpit.

 

 

 

 

The Original Plan 10 Years ago was:

As for what happens after Black Shark, the team has several aircraft modules currently in development (this could include development of 6 DOF cockpits, avionics or flight dynamics). While the A-10A Suite 2 module will still likely follow the Black Shark, the following aircraft are also now planned for DCS in development at one stage or another:

 

1- A-10A Suite 2 (latest version of A-10A in active use)

2- A-10C Suite 3 (we now have permission from the USAF to develop an entertainment version of the simulation we developed for them. We are very happy and excited about this).

3- AH-64A Blk. 49A

4- Su-27

5- F-15C

6- Mi-24V

7- F-16C

8- MiG-29A

 

The actual order of release is still up in the air.

 

 

That much has been true. all the ED Modules between then and now have been:

WWII GEN, P-51D

FC3, SU-25A

FC3, A-10A

FC3, F-15C

WWII GEN, FW-190D9

FC3, Su-27

WWII GEN, BF-109K4

GEN II, L-39C/ZA

WWII GEN, Spitfire MK IX

FC3, Su-33

 

There has been no Modern DCS PFM/PSM Aircraft in that List,

People dont realize, A lot of things had to be developed and integrated into DCS World before development of the F/A-18C could even be started, and they have been discussed numerous times, (A2G Radar, Supersonic PFMs, etc etc).

 

The Transition from DX9c to DX11/EDGE had nothing to do with developing Aircraft itself,

RRG/Normandy/WWII Gen Aircraft and Assets didn't have any impact on Developing the F/A-18C itself.

 

The Hornet itself was also changed from an Earlier to to a More modern lot mid-development.

 

To List those things as reasons the Hornet has taken many years is wrong, those items did not interfere or delay the hornet development.

Edited January 15, 2018 by SkateZilla

[Cunctator]

Does anybody remember that they already hoped to do an F/A-18 Add on next after the original LOMAC in 2003? I actually bought Lock On back than just in anticipation of it. Thus I am already waiting 15 years for it.

[Silver_Dragon]

The Original Plan 10 Years ago was:

 

That much has been true. all the ED Modules between then and now have been:

WWII GEN, P-51D

FC3, SU-25A

FC3, A-10A

FC3, F-15C

WWII GEN, FW-190D9

FC3, Su-27

WWII GEN, BF-109K4

GEN II, L-39C/ZA

WWII GEN, Spitfire MK IX

FC3, Su-33

 

 

Missing Combined Arms..... if enter into the list as a module of course.

[Kayos]

Hopefully they get to that F-16C when they are done with the F-18 !

[NineLine]

Hopefully they get to that F-16C when they are done with the F-18 !

 

Matt has said a few times that is only a matter of when, so it sounds like it's on ED's radar.

[Mad Dog 7.62]

I'm still waiting for my AH-64. :)

[RaceFuel85]

Matt has said a few times that is only a matter of when, so it sounds like it's on ED's radar.

 

A2A radar or ground targeting/mapping radar?

 

:thumbup:

[schurem]

I'm not waiting at all, I'm flying till the cows come home in all the awesome craft we already have :P

 

I really hope that the 2.5 reunification will bring an increase in development efficiency for both ED and the 3rd party devs. The framework+modules model works great. It's here to stay.

 

My dream module would be a campaign module that adds a bit of a metagame to the sim. Resource management, target selection, flight planning, etc. Add a game to the sim so to say.

[kontiuka]

A2A radar or ground targeting/mapping radar?

 

:thumbup:

Probably a radar that's good at picking up stealth since we've seen barely a whisper of an F-16.

[Mr_sukebe]

Based upon the track record of selling the A10 to the military and that the F18 is used by a number of militaries around the world, I wouldn't be surprised if it's also going to be sold for "business" purposes. Makes sense to me from a funding perspective, and clearly is a great way to have street cred.

[Kev2go]

Based upon the track record of selling the A10 to the military and that the F18 is used by a number of militaries around the world, I wouldn't be surprised if it's also going to be sold for "business" purposes. Makes sense to me from a funding perspective, and clearly is a great way to have street cred.

 

maybe but the difference is AFAIK what was publicly stated the F18C was built by ED's initiative not by a Military contract, and i heard stated that it was completed using Open Source Data.

 

whislt ED had a Contract to develop the A10C first and then got permission from the USAF to create Cosumer based Sim of that DEsktop trainer for us FLight simmers after the fact.

 

This is going to be the exact opposite secnario if it gets adopted by a military. However i think not.

 

US navy is slowly phasing out the hornet and is expected to retire the last LEgacy by 2025, with First F35C squadron slated to go operational by the end of January as a start of a direct Legacy replacements, as well as the new Advanced Super Hornets to augment their fleet. The Marines already have been getting F35B's Steadily since 2016, and too will replace legacies as well as the Harriers.

 

 

Foreign users like Canada too Are looking for proper replacements, (which are long overdue) , even if they are ironically aquiring some Aussie F/A18A Hornets as a Stopgap to address a Fighter gap . Kinda questionable for a military to invest in a sim of a mid 2000s ( circa 2005) F/A18C thats going to be phased out fully in 7 years. They are similar bit different upgrades from the Navy upgrades. Cf18 today is more akin to a USMC F/A18A ++

 

Other usesrs like Spain or Switzerland have upgraded avionics were its more like a SUper Hornet on the Inside, and thus not representative of such simulation.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Kev2go

[SkateZilla]

All Legacy Sqns will be converted to Super Bug or F35 before 2025,

Legacy Airframes that meet criteria will be sent to Cecil for USMCs F/A-18C+ Upgrade program.