Windows Vista: The longest suicide letter...

[Cdr.Instigator]

the 1st article is by Gutmann....one of the worlds foremost programmers of encryption....he wrote PGP....the most secure encryption known in the world

 

 

 

 

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

 

http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/165

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/12/28/vista_drm_analysis/

[S77th-RYKE]

thx for posting ... interesting reads

 

I won't be going vista that's for sure

 

from the quotes in Gutmann's article

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“I've just had my first experience with HD content being blocked. I purchased an HP Media Center PC with a built-in HD DVD player, together with a 24" 'high definition' 1920 x 1200 HP flat panel display (HP LP2465). They even included an HD movie, 'The Bourne Supremacy'. Sure enough, the movie won't play because while the video card supports HDCP content protection, the monitor doesn't. (It plays if I connect an old 14" VGA CRT using a DVI-to-VGA connector)” — Roger Strong.

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With the HD-DVD, I wasn't able to play my movie on my non- HDCP HD monitor. Not being able to play a movie that I have paid for, because some executive in Hollywood decided I cannot, made me mad... I'm just an upset customer. My efforts can be called 'fair use enforcement'!” — “muslix64”, author of the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray cracks

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“The funny thing is that I cant see how HDCP will actually even prevent piracy. In fact the only thing I can see it doing is encouraging piracy because everyone whose bought a new computer/monitor/HDTV in the last few years which don't have HDCP are now screwed out of the several thousand dollar purchases. So instead of buying new products they will turn to pirated/cracked Blu-ray/HD-DVDs which will work without the HDCP” — “Gizza”.

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The HDCP scheme will serve to make the illegal product the most full featured and least restrictive, and thus the most attractive to the consumer. Add in the expense of buying new equipment to view the legal content (when existing equipment is perfectly capable) and the performance drain imposed by in-line encryption/decryption and they've put out the biggest incentive to piracy yet” — “Greg”.

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“The HDCP (high-definition content protection) overlords are coming to get us

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“Good job, industry! Spend an incredible amount of time and effort developing the next generation of video quality only to step on it BEFORE THERE'S EVEN A DECIDED UPON STANDARD in the name of Copy Protection which will just be outflanked by a couple of 14 year old hackers and distributed over BitTorrent anyway” — “SweetMercury

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lol

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[TucksonSonny]

There is always Windows XP if you want to copy whatever HD-DVD :D

[Cosmonaut]

My XP Looks better than Vista right now and I have absolutely no interested in handing over control of my PC to anyone but me. I hope Vista turns out to be the new ME ;) .

[hitman]

Well with all that said....Ill stick with my MCE2005 edition.

[peterj]

Iv'e been running Vista for a while, here's three things i like:

 

Superfetch - Improves responsiveness allot. Applikations you use often are buffered to ram, so for example firefox will start instantly. If the ram is needed this data is just dropped.

 

Aero - 3D accelerated desktop, everything just works better and smoother if you do it in 3D. Allows you to do some nifty things to like tabbing between applikations in a 3D view. If the application happends to be a playing HD-movie, that's what's shown. I only wish you could use Aero with the classic theme, I'm getting used to the new one but I can't say i like it.

 

New file stucture - They've dropped "Documents & Settings", "My Documents" and other stupid directory names. Instead it's \Users\[username]\Documents ..\Pictures ..\Music

[Colt40Five]

Iv'e been running Vista for a while, here's three things i like:

 

Superfetch - Improves responsiveness allot. Applikations you use often are buffered to ram, so for example firefox will start instantly. If the ram is needed this data is just dropped.

 

Aero - 3D accelerated desktop, everything just works better and smoother if you do it in 3D. Allows you to do some nifty things to like tabbing between applikations in a 3D view. If the application happends to be a playing HD-movie, that's what's shown. I only wish you could use Aero with the classic theme, I'm getting used to the new one but I can't say i like it.

 

New file stucture - They've dropped "Documents & Settings", "My Documents" and other stupid directory names. Instead it's \Users\[username]\Documents ..\Pictures ..\Music

 

Read the first article linked...It may look good now...but that's by design.

 

Paul Stimpson submitted an excellent analysis of this situation in which he points out that “Microsoft are being clever by releasing these protection 'features' now; The average user who goes to a computer store will get Vista but won't have either premium content or get 'premium ready' PC hardware; The ordinary person in the street can't afford a top-of-the-line machine and display. They will have a 'Vista capable' machine; Vista will look nice and not cause too much trouble or suffer from the protection overhead too much; They won't have any choice or know any different and it will be accepted. These people will dismiss any complaints they hear about these problems as a geek thing. They got their computer at the right price and it does everything they ask of it. They will only find out the truth in a few years when they buy their next computer and all machines are 'premium ready' (and fast enough to implement the protection) and every display has an HDMI connector. By that time XP will be well into it's decline so there will be no going back. It's impossible to keep off the upgrade treadmill if you have Windows; Eventually you will either have to buy new hardware (with a new copy of Windows) or your out-of-support version of Windows will become such a target for malware that it will no longer be useable.”

 

“In today's environment these content protection features are indeed a nonsense. I don't think, however that MS are thinking about today's environment beyond keeping these features low-key for most users in order to avoid rejection. In their heads MS see the 'connected home' where everyone has a network and displays around the house that integrate everything from TV to email, Internet, telephone, lighting and heating. In order to do these things on your TV you need a computer attached to it and MS want that computer to run Windows.”

 

So not only will Microsoft be able to lock out any competitors, but because they will then represent the only available distribution channel they'll be able to dictate terms back to the content providers whose needs they are nominally serving in the same way that Apple has already dictated terms back to the music industry: Play by Apple's rules, or we won't carry your content. And as the example above shows, they'll also be able to dictate terms to consumers in order to ensure a continual revenue flow. The result will be a technologically enforced monopoly that makes their current de-facto Windows monopoly seem like a velvet glove in comparison [Note K].

[Silent Warrior]

Dude... I'm actually scared by that... I have stared down city-traffic, braved crazed bus-drivers, exposed myself to what can only be described as eccentric teachers, dimwitted school-kitchen staff, chinese markets and the odd drunkard or psycho without flinching, and now I'm really scared... (Oh, right, that pretty much only applies to high-definition multimedia content. Not much for me to worry about. Yet...)

[Colt40Five]

I know it's a long read, but please read the entire first article. The ramifications of vista go to every corner of the PC world... hardware and software. Even if you never use HD content(one day it will all be HD) your comp will be more expensive, less flexible, and generally a bigger pain in the ass than it is right now. Thanks to M$ desire to rule the "content distribution" pipeline.

[dodger42]

I tried Vista. I found the interface nice though achievable almost with XP themes. Aero ok, but only barely impressive. The bundled media centre is far nicer than XP. Other than that, I found it no different to XP.

 

I switched to linux for my main use laptop. I have a 3d desktop that whallops aero. See screenies here: http://lunapark6.com/?p=2916#comment-28251. It's fast, completely customised, and has NO DRM INFECTION. On the downside of course is the lack of games (including lockon), though most are playable through Cedega now. And then you get mythTV which allows you to run a Tivo like app on Linux.

 

I certainly couldn't stand by while M$ forces this OS down our throats with the move to DX10. In 3 years or so, you may have to be on Vista to enjoy the latest games due DX10. And all those points in Ryke's post about HDCP screwing you with Blu-Ray HD-DVD etc. How stupid do they think we are?

 

Linux has matured a hell of a lot. Distributions like Mandriva, Ubuntu and Fedora will have you operational in no time. With M$ Vista heading the way it is, Linux user friendliness is closing in.

 

I still have a machine with windows for compatibility and some legacy apps. I hope in 18 months I no longer need any windows. ED how about a port to Linux? :) yah right.

[rockwelder]

One man can spend his whole life building up barriers...while another will spend all of his tearing them down.

 

... any attempt to enforce this type of control by MS is inverted and destined to fail.

[zaelu]

Iv'e been running Vista for a while, here's three things i like:

 

Superfetch - Improves responsiveness allot. Applikations you use often are buffered to ram, so for example firefox will start instantly. If the ram is needed this data is just dropped.

 

Aero - 3D accelerated desktop, everything just works better and smoother if you do it in 3D. Allows you to do some nifty things to like tabbing between applikations in a 3D view. If the application happends to be a playing HD-movie, that's what's shown. I only wish you could use Aero with the classic theme, I'm getting used to the new one but I can't say i like it.

 

New file stucture - They've dropped "Documents & Settings", "My Documents" and other stupid directory names. Instead it's \Users\[username]\Documents ..\Pictures ..\Music

 

 

The superfetch will not be so impresive when SSD drives will became more available and a tad faster... running XP that is ;) .

 

The aero interface is a big joke from a point of view... Years M$ didn't bother to improve it's dumb browser with tabs and other features and now they put 3D on desktop? Like going from caves to space... C'mon...

 

The file structure? they droped WINFS which was a sort of improvement... and now they rearanged the system folders... wow, we couldn't fix your roof but we wash your socks!

 

I truly and sincerely hope that M$ will choke with this Vista and some shmuck will make that stupid DX10 work on XP... or something...

[Colt40Five]

and some shmuck will make that stupid DX10 work on XP... or something...

 

If he's successful, he won't be a shmuck....he'll be my HERO! :thumbup:

[peterj]

The superfetch will not be so impresive when SSD drives will became more available and a tad faster... running XP that is ;) .

 

The aero interface is a big joke from a point of view... Years M$ didn't bother to improve it's dumb browser with tabs and other features and now they put 3D on desktop? Like going from caves to space... C'mon...

 

The file structure? they droped WINFS which was a sort of improvement... and now they rearanged the system folders... wow, we couldn't fix your roof but we wash your socks!

 

I truly and sincerely hope that M$ will choke with this Vista and some shmuck will make that stupid DX10 work on XP... or something...

Wouldn't WINFS be like going from caves to space also? ;)

 

-

 

About the content protection, it seems doomed to happen and vista just adds software support for it. It's the same hardware solution used in blueray players etc. Adding that support might come with some bi-effects, but reading that document I can't see any really serious issues, maybe you could point them out?

[mjolner]

Even though much of the complaints about Vista appear valid it still reminds of the Y2K scare and stuff like that. I seem to remember alot of the same lamentation on the forums (not this one specifically) before XP was released. I will give it a year or so and see how things unfold.

[JonTex]

Read the first article linked...It may look good now...but that's by design.

 

yup, give us eye candy while our rights to use our own damn computers the way we want to use them is being replaced by a bunch of red tape, incompatibility, and sorry excuses.

[Pilotasso]

Well, software developers like to keep pirates at bay from cracking their stuff. But if this VISTA thing is realy like that, not exarcebated beyond reality, then Im a fraid I will have to wait for a crack for VISTA, not just SP1 for VISTA.

 

On the other hand I do realize people like to take on cynical causes bandwaggons and blow things out of proportions to make it look much worse than it is. I also heard the XP would PWN your PC making it feel like having 300MHZ less CPU power when it was launched 6 years ago.

[leafer]

Well, software developers like to keep pirates at bay from cracking their stuff. But if this VISTA thing is realy like that, not exarcebated beyond reality, then Im a fraid I will have to wait for a crack for VISTA, not just SP1 for VISTA.

 

Vista the pirate has been out in Bangkok for about a week now, and can be had for a mere one hundred and twenty bahts. That's 3.64 usd.

 

On the other hand I do realize people like to take on cynical causes bandwaggons and blow things out of proportions to make it look much worse than it is.

 

True dat, you are. Remember Starforce...Mmmm? Yeah, I'm one of the people who said if ED included that pos, I'm outta here.

 

Dart Gates will love you long time. Like it or not he will. lol

[chris2802]

Microshaft takes back the serial number from you so you can never use XP again.

 

Are you serious rugg? I was upset by vista before, but that is just sickening. What right do they have to take away somthing that is yours that you paid for? I can't beleive they can get away with that! that must be illegal surely! its not like your local car dealer can come round your house and claim back your car when you buy the latest model, it's yours ffs!...man I've been dreading vista + DRP, but that just crosses the line, forbidding you to use products that you own and paid for......words really cant express quite how mad that news makes me...I just hope it all goes horribly wrong for Microsoft, I have never wished any malice on anyone, but quite frankly I think not only preventing you from watching movies that youve paid for, but writing off your previous os too...wtf

 

 

:mad::mad::mad::mad:.....Livid...as I'm sure you've all guessed

 

Chris

[chris2802]

wow, we couldn't fix your roof but we wash your socks!

 

I truly and sincerely hope that M$ will choke with this Vista and some shmuck will make that stupid DX10 work on XP... or something...

 

Bravo Sir! Highly amusing and my sentiments exactly!

 

-Chris

[Prophet]

Are you serious rugg? I was upset by vista before, but that is just sickening. What right do they have to take away somthing that is yours that you paid for? I can't beleive they can get away with that! that must be illegal surely! its not like your local car dealer can come round your house and claim back your car when you buy the latest model, it's yours ffs!...man I've been dreading vista + DRP, but that just crosses the line, forbidding you to use products that you own and paid for......words really cant express quite how mad that news makes me...I just hope it all goes horribly wrong for Microsoft, I have never wished any malice on anyone, but quite frankly I think not only preventing you from watching movies that youve paid for, but writing off your previous os too...wtf

 

 

:mad::mad::mad::mad:.....Livid...as I'm sure you've all guessed

 

Chris

 

Thats what you get for an 'upgrade', otherwise get the full version and it wont be a problem.

[Prophet]

True story. Prophet (IIRC) already found out about this before I got a chance to warn him.

 

Well what my problem was this, I just upgraded to C2D E6400 and all, so since I was on the NVRAID I had to reformat and all, no big deal.

 

So I try to activate, once my internet took 4 freaking days to ship my modem (new house), it told me I have activated too much.

 

Well I figure since I put some spare parts in my wifes computer, to stay legal and all I would go buy another XP license. I check the link it gives you to buy another key.... gives me some error, crap. So I got to the stores, NO STORE sells it anymore. I looked at every single one, they were all sold out and no plans to get any more copies.

 

So I buy Vista Ultimate. Get home, only problem so far is CH manager, but thats ok cause windows still sees it, and so does LOMAC.

 

But I had burnt my last activation for FC in my XP install, well lucky today the Gold I ordered arrived.

 

And then to make it even better, the stupid activation program finally spits out a website that works and I get an XP key for $149.

 

vaseline please.

[gundelgauk]

I've been testing Vista since pre beta and apart from the big performance drop on my dated PC I didn't find it so bad. The performance thing improved somewhat with the final release but not by much.

 

Yesterday was the first time that I actually tried playing games on it. At the moment I only play two games, that's LockOn and Hero Online. And both of them I can't get to work for the life of me. (Before you try to help: Yes, I tried patches, compatibility mode etc etc, forget it, I've given up)

 

Sure, there are some nice changes that improve productivity somewhat but if that means that I have to freaking dual boot to be able to play my games... forget it. I'm just so glad that I didn't have to pay money for that thing.

[TooTubular]

When was the last Windows release where performance was increased from it's predecessor with current gen apps?

 

I'm not trying to defend Microsoft, but I'd say some of you are being a bit too stubborn. Vista just needs time to settle in just like XP did.

 

That being said, I haven't had the time to thoroughly read the OP's links. I'm not big on HD content on my computer at the moment either, but if this Vista content protection business really has the far reaching ramifications you guys are talking about, well, :doh:.

[T4L0N]

I have LockON:FC installed on Vista Ultimate and running better than it ever did on XP pro. I get more FPS on the same exact system. To confirm this finding, I have this installed on a Sager Gaming Laptop in a dual boot configuration. 1st OS is still XP Pro with LockOn:FC and 2nd OS is Vista Ultimate with LockOn:FC. Going back and forth, I can say 100% that on THIS particular Gaming laptop system, LockOn runs better on Vista than it does on XP. It may be the new ATI drivers for the ATI Mobility 9700 Pro (256Mb) video card just make it run faster, but I get better fps with higher settings in Vista than XP.

 

Not saying for everyone to go out and test Vista, but it works for me incredibly. RealVNC works faster as well on Vista.

 

FYI: for those about to try it, remember to right click the exe before install and run in compatibility mode for XP SP2, and as administrator. Then run the install for each cd in sequence doing this for the exe's. Then you have to download the starforce update tool when it asks you to the first time you try to start FC. Dont forget to install updated video drivers for your cards. Some beta nVidia drivers are having issues ( thus the word 'beta'), the ATI ones seem to work real well.