aceofspades9963 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Have been reading through the operating manual and found the pirouette logic which is, when below 210kts and greater than 25 degrees AOA, you apply full lateral stick and same direction rudder and the aircraft will do a 180 heading reversal under control. Has this been mentioned to be implemented ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoggs Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 I sure hope so! My SpecsAsus Maximus Hero IX Z270 i7 7700k @ 4.7GHz 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ 3700MHz DDR4 EVGA RTX 2080Ti Samsung 960 Evo 1TB M.2 NVME SSD EVGA SuperNOVA 1200 P2 Acer XB270HU 144Hz @ 1440p (IPS) Valve Index OOOOhhh, I wish I had the Alpha of a Hornet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert31178 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Nice song reference there lol.......dudes are funny as F!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShackleford Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Would love it! Kinda doubtful it will be implemented since there's some crazy F-15C high AoA maneuvers you can do in real life but not in DCS. Seems above 30 units AoA in DCS the F-15C nose just freezes all movement.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AegisFX Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 The F-15 is using a simple systems simulation. Advanced flight that may involve turning some system or switch may not be available because of that. I doubt the Hornet will have the same constraint. Owned: Ryzen 3900x, MSI AMD 470x mobo, 32gb 3200MHz ram, Gtx 1660 Ti, 970 Evo Plus 500GB, MsFFB2, TIR5, TMWH+18c Stick, MFG Crosswinds, Buttkicker/SSA, WinWing F-18C . Next is VR for simpit Art Of The Kill: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShackleford Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Tuck under jink, loaded floor jink, vector roll are ones I know of. They still kinda work but you have to be at the perfect AoA in DCS for it to work and it doesn't wrap around the nose or cause the quick weird change of direction that it should. The F-15 can also pirouette but it isn't controlled by the FCS, it is pilot flown using essentially the same control inputs and it's not a 180 degree change of direction for an eagle, just a way to possibly gun a guy when in scissors and have a slight altitude advantage. I just hate that the F-15's nose stops moving around 30 AoA in game when it can go 40+ and still be turning IRL, you'll just be bleeding energy like crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushmanni Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Pirouette logic is a thing in Super Hornet but Legacy Hornet doesn't have any dedicated logic for it. Super Hornet got a new FBW that also eliminated the Pirouette maneuver and a dedicated logic for enambling the maneuver was added from pilots request. Lecagy Hornet got the new FBW from Super Hornet with some modifications as they have some distinct differences in control surfaces so it's unclear to me if updated Legacy Hornet FBW has or needs dedicated logic for pirouette. Super Hornet FBW is very complex system and I doubt it's possible to simulate it perfectly (adapts to damage automatically for example) without big impact on fps or very long (and costly) development time. DCS Finland: Suomalainen DCS yhteisö -- Finnish DCS community -------------------------------------------------- SF Squadron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhineHornet Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Few years ago I was told by an active Swiss Hornet driver that for performing the piourette all he has to do is fly at the proper speed, attitude and slam the controls (full aft stick and aileron and full rudder in direction of aileron input) and all of the magic is done by the computer. Hmm. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceofspades9963 Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 Pirouette logic is a thing in Super Hornet but Legacy Hornet doesn't have any dedicated logic for it. Super Hornet got a new FBW that also eliminated the Pirouette maneuver and a dedicated logic for enambling the maneuver was added from pilots request. Lecagy Hornet got the new FBW from Super Hornet with some modifications as they have some distinct differences in control surfaces so it's unclear to me if updated Legacy Hornet FBW has or needs dedicated logic for pirouette. Super Hornet FBW is very complex system and I doubt it's possible to simulate it perfectly (adapts to damage automatically for example) without big impact on fps or very long (and costly) development time. I read this straight from the Hornet NFM manual so it's definitely in the C model and was a part of the fcs software before the 10.7 software upgrade. I really hope the hornet has its high aoa characteristics thats what sets the aircraft apart from other aircraft and is one of its advantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceofspades9963 Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 Just found a video of a fully loaded super hornet doing one ,skip to 2:45 for maneuver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceFire Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Not really sure its fair to compare the F-15 that is intensely simplified to something like the Hornet.. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Matt "IceFire" Schuette Commander In Chief United States Atlantic Command Virtual Carrier Air Wing Eleven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) Would love it! Kinda doubtful it will be implemented since there's some crazy F-15C high AoA maneuvers you can do in real life but not in DCS. Seems above 30 units AoA in DCS the F-15C nose just freezes all movement....Or maybe you are just flying ham-fisted ... The Eagle handles AOA fine and is controllable at over 40 units but generally this isn't where you want to be, and best controllability is under the tone. If you spike the AoA then yes, the nose will stop, and spiking the nose is quite easy. I don't know if the behavior is the same with CAS off, btw, worth checking. You may be perfectly correct - or it may just be the player interface (You don't get the feels for stick throws that you get in RL), and of course given that this is the very edge of the envelope, this is where we'd see most issues. One main limitation is SME and document input: These are things that you can gather from documents, IF they are available ... often they're not. Edited February 2, 2018 by GGTharos [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Not really sure its fair to compare the F-15 that is intensely simplified to something like the Hornet..Pretty sure it's fair since no part of the fight model is simplified. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 The F-15 is using a simple systems simulation. Advanced flight that may involve turning some system or switch may not be available because of that. I doubt the Hornet will have the same constraint.No switches are involved, it's all stick, rudder and throttle. And btw you can turn the CAS on and off. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShackleford Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Or maybe you are just flying ham-fisted ... The Eagle handles AOA fine and is controllable at over 40 units but generally this isn't where you want to be, and best controllability is under the tone. If you spike the AoA then yes, the nose will stop, and spiking the nose is quite easy. I don't know if the behavior is the same with CAS off, btw, worth checking. You may be perfectly correct - or it may just be the player interface (You don't get the feels for stick throws that you get in RL), and of course given that this is the very edge of the envelope, this is where we'd see most issues. One main limitation is SME and document input: These are things that you can gather from documents, IF they are available ... often they're not. Can see it being user input error, as most of the time when pulling the high AoA like that in game I'm defensive trying to defeat gunshots so not really looking at the AoA in the HUD. Eagle does some visible shaking in the game which helps at the high AoA but it doesn't quite replace the different levels of buffet feeling you get from the actual jet, surely. I still believe some of the high AoA maneuvers I mentioned earlier aren't as effective as they should be based on tests with other guys telling me when they are pulling the trigger to cue me when to start, but I might just have to practice it more in DCS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Can see it being user input error, as most of the time when pulling the high AoA like that in game I'm defensive trying to defeat gunshots so not really looking at the AoA in the HUD. Eagle does some visible shaking in the game which helps at the high AoA but it doesn't quite replace the different levels of buffet feeling you get from the actual jet, surely. There is sound and cockpit shaking - you need to adjust the sound to 'feel it properly' but it will help. Thing is, you can pull right through controllable AoA very easy. I still believe some of the high AoA maneuvers I mentioned earlier aren't as effective as they should be based on tests with other guys telling me when they are pulling the trigger to cue me when to start, but I might just have to practice it more in DCS. IMHO that's too late. Jinks are to prevent the pipper from being on you, and if possible, to get out of the HuD. Too late when they're shooting or established, you just won't get out of the way in time. Shell ToF is well under a second, possibly under half, and your (human) reaction eats 200ms, moving the controls eats another so much etc. Start your jink when you see bandit is about to establish proper lead. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvanK Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Pirouettes galore in a c model: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitormouraa Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Of course. This is a very important element of the Hornet's flight characteristics. (Useful too) :) SplashOneGaming Discord https://splashonegaming.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinusoidDelta Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 It appears the DFCS Logic was updated in 2003 to v10.7 which, if I’m understanding correctly, includes the pirouette logic: The purpose of this study was to evaluate the capability to demonstrate F/A-18 Hornet departure characteristics, mainly the spin, with Flight Control Computer (FCC) Operation Flight Program (OFP) Version 10.7 (v10.7). Version 10.7 was released to the Navy and Marine Corps F/A-18A/B/C/D fleet in 2003. Version 10.7 was developed based on the existing FCC OFP (v10.5.1) to minimize out-of-control flight or departure related mishaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceofspades9963 Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 Looks like its confirmed in the new flight dynamics video , shows one being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilnate Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Looks like its confirmed in the new flight dynamics video , shows one being done. More specially, following the climb at 4:00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kroll Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) Here is a F-18C doing the maneuver. or peddle turns. As I watched the ED video the other day it appeared to have a peddle turn in there. Edited March 7, 2018 by Kroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesj2 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Anyone managed to do this yet? If so could you post a video or something showing how it's done and how it looks?? I just end up on my back at about 60 kts when I try it lol Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesj2 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 No one managed this yet then? Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Wags Posted June 4, 2018 ED Team Share Posted June 4, 2018 Sustain AoA over 24 degrees and full stick and pedals in the same direction. Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/wagmatt Twitch: wagmatt System: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3729544#post3729544 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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