Eject button in the Gazelle?

[Wolf8312]

I cant find it anywhere either in game or from google! Anyone tell me what command/button it goes under?

 

Many thanks!

[=Pedro=]

What would you like to eject from a helicopter ?

[SliderCDN]

To exit helo when you land.

[grunf]

To exit helo when you land.

People used to use doors... :P

[Wolf8312]

Lol! Couldn't it eject vertically downwards?

[Mr_sukebe]

Lol! Couldn't it eject vertically downwards?

 

I believe some jets had this design. You can imagine the implications of usage whilst taking off and landing.

[Wolf8312]

People used to use doors... :P

 

That's what I use at the moment! Its literally impossible to get out alive with a headset on!

[grunf]

I believe some jets had this design. You can imagine the implications of usage whilst taking off and landing.

Yea, some early F-104.

[dimitriov]

Well, ejection system isn't planned on the ALAT Gazelles.

 

And no, it's a fake in James Bond, the Tiger doesn't have it either :p

[grunf]

Well, ejection system isn't planned on the ALAT Gazelles.

 

And no, it's a fake in James Bond, the Tiger doesn't have it either :p

Not many helicopters have ejection seat. IIRC only Ka-52 (Ka-50 too obviously) has one.

[dimitriov]

Yup, and even ka pilots tend to prefer auto-rotation. Yep cause psychologically, counting on the rotor blades to be ejected properly is quite hard ^^

[Wolf8312]

So out of interest when a helicopter like the Gazelle gets hit IRL the crew/pilot is pretty much done for right or has to hope he lands on something soft? Realistically you are not going to get to a door, and it would all happen so fast anyway. What are the procedures in a dire emergency? Fetal position and prey?

[Jester986]

If the helicopter starts coming apart or there's a control system failure you're done... If the engine quits you autorotate.

[FragBum]

So out of interest when a helicopter like the Gazelle gets hit IRL the crew/pilot is pretty much done for right or has to hope he lands on something soft? Realistically you are not going to get to a door, and it would all happen so fast anyway. What are the procedures in a dire emergency? Fetal position and prey?

 

Don't know but I'm guessing at a few hundred kph nothing is soft, besides even if you do get out of the cab your more likely to go through the rotor. :D

[Wolf8312]

Don't know but I'm guessing at a few hundred kph nothing is soft, besides even if you do get out of the cab your more likely to go through the rotor. :D

 

Well in game I sometimes land on something soft! A tree might break my fall or something, and I will at least survive. Not sure how realistic it is but I think it's pretty accurate because I have heard people survive after falling out of planes and having tree branches and things break their fall.

 

So I guess when people sign up for chopper training they do so knowing that helicopters are far more dangerous than jets or planes!

 

I'm surprised modern helicopters don't have some sort of eject trapdoor though, but it would probably like you say just crash people into the helicopter itself and any eject mechanism would probably just splatter people into the ground.

 

Still I'd rather be in a KA-50 with an eject option, and take my chances with the rotor blades!

[borchi_2b]

@Jester986:

loss of a control gets you killed yes, but it depends which control. If you suffer a loss of tailrotor you can still land her and survive. had to do it a few times in dcs. My us army buddy taught me in dcs how to do it, after I saw him do that in a combat mission. You control the yaw by the torque of the rotor, so you use the throttle to control the ammount.

 

But if you are hit bad in a helicopter you are done.

[Alpha-87]

The tail fin on the Gazelle helps enormously with tail rotor failures. I'm not entirely sure of the figures for the Gazelle, but the Dauphin (a relative of the Gazelle) sends 90% of its power to the main rotor and only 10% to the tail.

 

Provided that there is 40kts of airflow over the tail fin, the aircraft will remain pretty much pointing straight. Obviously, this will vary with the type of tail rotor failure and also (and significantly more importantly) the power setting at the point of failure. High torque failures will necessitate a high speed running landing.

 

The Gazelle has a smaller tail fin, but the principle is the same. Long live fenestrons and tail fins.

[Jester986]

Correct borchi, I meant to say with regard to the cyclic and collective. But of course there are exceptions to every rule. I've known three guys who had their pitch links ripped off by wire strikes and survived, but they were pretty low to start with.

[FragBum]

Well in game I sometimes land on something soft! A tree might break my fall or something, and I will at least survive. Not sure how realistic it is but I think it's pretty accurate because I have heard people survive after falling out of planes and having tree branches and things break their fall.

 

So I guess when people sign up for chopper training they do so knowing that helicopters are far more dangerous than jets or planes!

 

I'm surprised modern helicopters don't have some sort of eject trapdoor though, but it would probably like you say just crash people into the helicopter itself and any eject mechanism would probably just splatter people into the ground.

 

Still I'd rather be in a KA-50 with an eject option, and take my chances with the rotor blades!

 

Yes but my luck would have me 5 mtrs from said tree and aimed at a large rock beside the tree, nothing like getting stoned one last time,.. :P :music_whistling:

[Alpha-87]

So I guess when people sign up for chopper training they do so knowing that helicopters are far more dangerous than jets or planes!

 

If anything (removing the ejection seat from the equation) incidents in helicopters are probably safer than fixed wing. Flown correctly, you can land your helicopter at zero groundspeed in an area the same size, or slightly smaller than your D-value. Has something gone slightly wrong? Well, just land down in that field and check it out. Has something gone majorly wrong? Well, just autorotate to wherever is big enough for the fuselage to fit. You can't do that in fixed wing.

 

Despite what some people think, even in autorotation, provided you keep the rotor RPM within the operating parameters you can perform fully aerobatic manoeuvers. That ability alone makes the helicopter my go-to in an emergency, contrary to the Hollywood theory of flight where no helicopter survives to the end of a movie.

 

Now, if you're asking are helicopters more dangerous because we operate them in higher risk environments? Then yes, but inherently I'd say helicopters are safer.

 

I'm surprised modern helicopters don't have some sort of eject trapdoor though, but it would probably like you say just crash people into the helicopter itself and any eject mechanism would probably just splatter people into the ground.

 

 

Also, ejection seats/mechanisms are heavy and helicopters tend to be operating near to their MTOW, so adding one/two heavy seats means less payload, which either reduces your range by cutting fuel or combat effectiveness by carrying less weapons, both of which would invalidate the benefits of rotary wing.

[Alicatt]

This is what can happen when your engines flame out, AAIB finding was that the accident was a result of fuel mismanagement and the tanks that feed the engines were empty while there was still 73kg of fuel in the main tank but the transfer pumps were in the off position.

 

The helicopter came down with the main and tail rotors stopped and crashed through the roof of the pub, the building used to be 5 or 6 stories high but the upper floors were removed in the 1960s so the walls and roof of the building were much stronger than you would expect on a single story building which probably helped save a lot of lives, still, sadly 10 people died related to the accident, 3 crew and 7 on the ground.

 

This was a Eurocopter EC-135T2+ and had a Fenestron tail rotor

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Glasgow_helicopter_crash

 

When I had to go to Glasgow on work I stayed in a hotel that was only a few yards from that pub, I know the area quite well. :(

[Alpha-87]

This is what can happen when your engines flame out

 

The 135 has an awkward fuel system set up, which has now been resolved, but at the time if you were low on fuel and in cruise flight the fuel would be pooled in the forward tanks, causing the rear fuel transfer pumps to overheat and a caution to appear on the CAD. So IAW FRC's the rear pump is selected to off. Let's now say you've cruised for 10 mins in busy airspace with lots going on and your mental capacity is reducing (bearing in mind this isn't a game, it is VERY different in reality) and you begin to slow the aircraft down, the fuel flows to the rear of the aircraft and the front pump overheats, so you turn that off, forgetting to turn on the rear pump again. Now you have no fuel transfer pumps and the emergency checklist does not advise you to check the other pump, I can tell you that it is very easy to forget, because I've done exactly that, before I realised my mistake.

 

The 135 has an indent in the fuel tanks so that one engine will flame out before the other one, giving you enough time to realise that you're of fuel and react accordingly, either prepare for autorotation or rapidly descend to the ground. In the event that both flame out at the same time, you have about one to two seconds to enter autorotation before the blade drag becomes too much to overcome and the RPM decays beyond recovery. Also, on the 135, in the event of a double engine failure you lose your RadAlt and you have to reach up and left to the overhead panel and power it again, it's a stupid design.

 

Now place yourself at night, over a city, it has been a routine flight so far, nothing exciting, then all of a sudden, both engines fail. It is going to take time to realise what has gone on and attempt to recover the aircraft, by which point the RPM has decayed too much and you have to watch the ground coming up to meet you from whatever height you were at.

 

But the likelihood of both engines failing at the same time is incredibly small, so when it happens the shock factor is immense. This is reality and if you don't perform perfectly immediately then you will die and perhaps kill other people too, you can't just pause it or reset and try again, so your stress levels go through the roof and unless you've experienced a double engine failure then I'd thank anyone not to comment on the actions of my ex-colleague.

 

In reality, unless you are expecting a double engine failure, either because you've already lost one or you are in a combat situation then you'll probably be surprised and not react in time so you'd better leave a nice message on the CVR for your family, but if you think it might be coming and react accordingly then a double engine failure is not a big deal at all and you have full control of the aircraft all the way down.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Alpha-87

[borchi_2b]

@Alpha-87:

Thanks a lot for your detailed answer. We do comprehend the tragedy as others do and I think nobody will comment improper to your post. We hope you and your comrades could recover from the loss of friends at some point of time and keep them in a good memory.

[Alicatt]

@Alpha-87

I'm sorry for the loss of your friends and colleagues.

 

I have never worked with the Strathclyde helicopters, only with Tayside's covering the T in the Park events at Balado, and that was to receive video from them as part of a mobile CCTV patrol.

[Alpha-87]

It's all good, please don't think that I took offence to anything anyone had said, but I've seen this accident referred to elsewhere and the crew ripped apart by people who didn't know the facts or how the crew were lead down the garden path by an underlying issue with the Eurocopter checklist.

 

Now that I'm in the offshore industry again it always amazes me how terrified of helicopters the rig workers are, so I often take it upon myself to work through their worries and try and help them understand, because they get all their knowledge from movies or newspapers.

 

These unfortunate events must occur for us all to learn from them, it is a factor of the industry whereby things will only change after an accident. I'm always more than happy to discuss rotary wing aviation with anyone, be it questions regarding the operation of helicopters, quirks (like the 135 fuel system) or general career advice.

 

Always here to help explain things or expand on the already large knowledge base that is here. The people on this forum are generally more knowledgeable than most so I'm very happy to add any insight I can as to how things would relate to reality. Having your squishy butt strapped into something changes how one thinks drastically and that is easy to forget when one hasn't been in that situation so a little context always helps. :)