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BFT12 Issues - Primarily Timing


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I've made it to BFT-12, low level flight plan, but am having issues. I am on DCS 2.5. I have only flown this once, but wanted to ask here.

 

1. Timings: if I follow the flight lead, I hit the route entry too early, by about 90 seconds. However, doing this, I was flying about 290 kts to make the rest of the timings. If I don't follow flight lead, I'm told I'm out of formation. He pushed exactly as planned at 06:35:00, so that part seemed ok.

 

2. Formation flying: is this graded on this flight? Because the instructor is simply put, crazy. With many steep climbs and dives, unannounced. And he is often above 1500' AGL, the maximum on the low level route. Further, as above, if I stay in formation with him, I will be off DTOT for the entry. The remaining where closer at least.

 

3. What speed is the route intended to be flown at? There aren't timings for anything by WPT 3, 5, 10, 15. So if I flew this at 220 kts and 280 kts was intended, I wouldn't know I'm way off until waypoint 8 or 9 and have an ETA for 10...by which point I could be unable to make time.

 

4. The CDU DTOT for 5, 10, and 15 are all +37 seonds (i.e. 06:40:37 at entry instead of 06:40:00). Does the mission grade on 00 seconds or 37 seconds (I'd like to change them in the CDU if I could).

 

5. Inbound to waypoint 15 I'm told the route has been completed, climb to pattern altitude and contact Batumi. If I head for the pattern, I'm told I exited the MOA and get an immediate terminate. What/where is the trigger for clearance to exit the MOA? I seem to have missed this, and while contact Batumi for approach isn't explicit clearance to exit, it was unclear and seemed as I was being instructed to enter the approach.

 

Good group of missions, but sometimes the triggers are a little unclear.

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Thank you, I’ll try reinstalling tomorrow when I get home. I’m hopeful this will work, although I only purchased and installed this campaign after installing DCS 2.5 (I had the old old version downloaded and unlocked through you website years ago), so who knows. I’ll report back.

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I've reinstalled the mission and had the same issues except for the issue about exiting the MOA (partly my error, I was heading back to Batumi after being told "contact tower", forgetting this mission ended at Kobuletti).

 

I ignored the flight lead and hit all timings within +/- 3 seconds and flew the course to well <1 NM deviation. I got a Q- rating (presumably because of the formation issues). I accepted this knowing I could fly the low level course on time/altitude or follow the lead, but not both and will be happy to move on the the advanced campaign.

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I had the exact same thing with mine twice. First time I just got 1500ft and failed second time I just flew it ignoring the lead and it's mental flying. Kind of ruined it for me, mission 11 was awesome fun,12 not as much.

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  • 1 month later...

Doing this mission today. I can confirm the Instructor is parabel flying like a drunken lunatic and also goes above max altitude.

Gonna try again with ignoring him.

 

Edit: In the mission before this his behavior was better. But even there his altitude changes are insane and he´s not holding the altitudes he tells you.

 

Sorry for bringing all this up, i really feel like a beta tester in this campaign but it is still fun in the parts that work, so i want to help you repair this as the current situation of the game does not do the campaign justice. In the last patches it felt like they broke more then they fixed.

Proppably even gonna continue with AFTQ after this and hope the missions are not effected so much.


Edited by Neuse
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Reporting back. After ignoring the Instructor it worked well. You just have to join formation at the beginning till he says "we have to be at the starting point at..." Then do your own thing.

 

One last thing for this campaign: After landing he says "leave the runway to the right take the first compartment left" ist is clearly made for landing from the other direction and would make you miss the final parade :-)

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  • 2 months later...

On 2.5.0 latest.

 

Just flew this for the first time ever and failed for going outside low level altitude limits, just after starting the low level run. I was unsure whether I was supposed to stay in formation or not - could this be made clearer in the briefing? I suspect that if I attempt to stay in formation I will fail. I found that the instructor did make many yo-yo altitude changes. Next time I'll ignore the instructor on the low level bit and see how that goes.

 

Suggestions (and for BFT11) as well:

Have instructor say target airspeeds as they change.

Show a screenshot in the briefing of what the formation positioning should look like from the cockpit.


Edited by Hippo

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5. Inbound to waypoint 15 I'm told the route has been completed, climb to pattern altitude and contact Batumi. If I head for the pattern, I'm told I exited the MOA and get an immediate terminate. What/where is the trigger for clearance to exit the MOA? I seem to have missed this, and while contact Batumi for approach isn't explicit clearance to exit, it was unclear and seemed as I was being instructed to enter the approach.

 

This happened to me also - I wasn't quite sure what I was supposed to be doing, before I knew it I was out of the MOA. I believe that the thing to do is to keep to the flight plan, as you're supposed to land at Kobuleti (not Batumi). I carried on for the landing anyway. However on contacting ATC I was told to land on 07, whereas the mission expects you to land on 24 (I got a message telling me to leave the runway using the taxiway to the right - this only works if landing on 24).

 

 

Also - when joining with the instructor, and descending, I get a message that I hit the waypoint too early. Following the low level route at around 800 feet throughout appeared to work ok, but was arriving at all waypoints around 4 minutes before specified TOT (on the CDU). Even so the instructor messages said I was on time.

 

 

 

Will try again later.

 

 

***EDIT - All worked out ok when I did as above.


Edited by Hippo

System spec: Intel i9 13900KF @ stock,  Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24GB GDDR6X, Gigabyte Z690 UD DDR4, Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO SL 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600MHz C18, Samsung 980 EVO 500 GB NVME M.2 SSD (system drive), Samsung 970 EVO 1 TB NVME M.2 SSD (games drive), Cooler Master ML360 Illusion CPU Cooler, Asus XG43UQ Monitor, Oculus Quest Pro, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

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Also - when joining with the instructor, and descending, I get a message that I hit the waypoint too early. Following the low level route at around 800 feet throughout appeared to work ok, but was arriving at all waypoints around 4 minutes before specified TOT (on the CDU). Even so the instructor messages said I was on time.

 

 

Sorry PEBCAK. I was somewhat confused and thought I could assign a DTOT, or that the TOT was a DTOT, or something. Anyway, I see now that I'm just supposed to match the TOTs from the briefings. Is there no way to alter the DTOT for the mission waypoints?

System spec: Intel i9 13900KF @ stock,  Gigabyte GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming OC 24GB GDDR6X, Gigabyte Z690 UD DDR4, Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO SL 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600MHz C18, Samsung 980 EVO 500 GB NVME M.2 SSD (system drive), Samsung 970 EVO 1 TB NVME M.2 SSD (games drive), Cooler Master ML360 Illusion CPU Cooler, Asus XG43UQ Monitor, Oculus Quest Pro, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals

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I'm having the same issues, i'm running 2.5.2.18144 , which is the latest version so, and the FE is yo yo-ing like crazy, he probably had one to many before the flight. Timing is also a problem, the FE gets there too early and so therefore i'm too early and he complains about it, next time i'll just not bother staying in formation with him and just meet the times. The AI needs to be fixed.

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  • 4 months later...

Problems here, too. DCS Open Beta 2.5. The times are not correct. My opinion... FE flys like crazy, dont get the right TOTs.

Will now check if a reinstall of this DLC will change something.

 

 

EDIT: No changes at all. Times do not fit!

 

 

 

I had the exact same thing with mine twice. First time I just got 1500ft and failed second time I just flew it ignoring the lead and it's mental flying. Kind of ruined it for me, mission 11 was awesome fun,12 not as much.

 

 

Same here. The last missions where really fun. But this endmission is ruinös! Really not a worthly graduation. :( The only brightly star is, that you have to use all of your wisdom from all of the missions in this campaign to correct the flight plan.

 

 

But maybe this was the intention of this mission. To use the CDU in low level flight!? :director:So go on! Use it, damn. Use it! (((Its definitive a challenge)

gamedeveloper---> :chair:<---player)tester-->:megalol:))

Sincerlys your

woodlanddragon


Edited by woodlanddragon

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  • 3 months later...
  • 3 months later...

Can you post a .trk file?

 

The last time we tested the FE was hitting the waypoints on time but wouldn't keep low level flight.

 

We will retest and see if anything has changed and if we can improve the timings.

 

The FE starts for the waypoints after you join up so if you were late on the join up then he would have a hard time making the waypoints on time.

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I was talking about the FE going up and down like crazy. Impossible to follow him in formation while still staying at 1000 ft AGL. I did not save the trk file from my first attempt. When I ignored FE in the second attempt, I recorded a video:

 

 

Already at MTR entry point, FE was behind. I slowed down too much through MTR and barely made it in time to the WP 10 and WP 15. FE was way back and did not make it in the given time.

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  • 1 month later...

I should have read this thread before trying the mission, because I am having exactly the same bugs. My campaign should be up to date, since I installed it a few weeks ago.

It seems like in the practice mission the FE gets the timing right, but not in the real training mission. Maybe it is because he has problems to circle around waypoint three and then get to the next waypoints in time. For me he gets to waypoint 4 too early. Maybe it is some AI issue caused by ED or maybe it is caused by faulty triggers, but the FE clearly does his job wrong.

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We will retest to see if anything has changed but the timings should be the same as in the practice mission (same triggers).

 

For this mission, if you are late on the join up then it will be hard for the AI to meet the waypoints on time. If you make a clean join or get to the rendezvous early then the AI will have time to make the waypoints as planned.

 

One possible alternative is to have the FE leave at the required time and if you are not joined up by the time he leaves then too bad - mission failure.

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I took off very quickly and I arrived in waypoint 3 even before 6:30. Then I rejoined within a short time. So I do not think it was my fault. You should test this mission to see what really happens.

 

Anyway, after hitting the 13th waypoint the FE told me "Climb to pattern altitude and contact the tower to enter the landing pattern". I thought that for some reason I had to land instead of going to waypoint 15, but the FE was only making a very misleading call, which failed my mission. On the next try I made it to Kobuletti, but then the FE gave me a wrong description where to park. In the end I got stuck in some building and could not taxi any more. This lead to another frustrating fail of my mission.

Is it even worth completing this mission? It is not hard, but it lasts too long and the FE gives you misleading information.

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  • 5 weeks later...

I wish I had read this thread before I attempted the mission. I joined on the FE early, we circled about 4 times, made the push, and, me flying almost perfect trail, hit the first WP too early, and then he terminated because I was too high. I guess I will ignore flying formation once he has pushed.

 

One more thing, the DTOT for the WPs are not what is in the briefing. Are people changing them in the CDU before takeoff, or going with what loads with the mission?

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  • 2 months later...
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