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F/A18E/F Super Hornets block 1 and BLock 2 E/F ( lot 26)


Kev2go

F/A18E/F Super Hornets block 1 and BLock 2 E/F ( lot 26)  

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  1. 1. F/A18E/F Super Hornets block 1 and BLock 2 E/F ( lot 26)

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in a sidenote Im wondering how is it some Super Hornets have Green font/ symbology. Though most have White?

 

IS this a feature that pilots can choose? or is Green font from an older software suite that still hasn't been phased out? ( this video is from 2018 btw)

 

 


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in a sidenote Im wondering how is it some Super Hornets have Green font/ symbology. Though most have White?
 
IS this a feature that pilots can choose? or is Green font from an older software suite that still hasn't been phased out? ( this video is from 2018 btw)
 
 
Can't say for sure, but I think it's just a color option. In DCS, you can choose your display font color in the Harrier through the EHSD page, as it carries modern MPCDs.

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1 hour ago, Kev2go said:

in a sidenote Im wondering how is it some Super Hornets have Green font/ symbology. Though most have White?

 

IS this a feature that pilots can choose? or is Green font from an older software suite that still hasn't been phased out? ( this video is from 2018 btw)

 

 

 

VFA-211 only operates Lot 27 and Lot 28 -Fs now, they should all have the full color AMPCD, they were all lot 25 and up.

All Block I SH's are now in Reserve SQNs and/or mothballed for USN Flight Demonstration use.

This Video while dated 2018, is likely older, outside of the Fact that CVN-65 was decommissioned over a year before this video was uploaded, there are small things in the video that point more towards early 2010s-2014


Edited by SkateZilla
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13 hours ago, Sonoda Umi said:

I'm not sure that any 3rd party(like Heatblur) has interest and capability to build a Full-Fidelity F/A-18F (Block 1 is ok).

Theoretically, the Heatblur is able to port AI WSO technique into Rhino Foxtrot, so they should be one of the best candidnates to approach that.

Heatblur has a full plate w/ EF2000, F-4E, A-6E and they are still doing the Iranian F-14A

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11 minutes ago, SkateZilla said:

Heatblur has a full plate w/ EF2000, F-4E, A-6E and they are still doing the Iranian F-14A

It's even more than that, 2 versions of the F-4E plus the naval Phantom and then the other platforms. If the Strike Eagle turns out well, Razbam may attempt it one day but even they are neck deep in different projects. TBH, I'd rather see a paid update to our Charlie Hornet, A-10 style. Having a newer C+ USMC jet with GBU 54, better HOTAS functions and smaller improvements (double altitude readout, AOA readout when trimming), colored DDIs and so on. In fact, having a paid update may incentivize ED to revisit the current deficiencies in certain systems of the Hornet, like the INS-navigation suite or the radar workflow or the lack of MSI.

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4 hours ago, WobblyFlops said:

It's even more than that, 2 versions of the F-4E plus the naval Phantom and then the other platforms. If the Strike Eagle turns out well, Razbam may attempt it one day but even they are neck deep in different projects. TBH, I'd rather see a paid update to our Charlie Hornet, A-10 style. Having a newer C+ USMC jet with GBU 54, better HOTAS functions and smaller improvements (double altitude readout, AOA readout when trimming), colored DDIs and so on. In fact, having a paid update may incentivize ED to revisit the current deficiencies in certain systems of the Hornet, like the INS-navigation suite or the radar workflow or the lack of MSI.

C+ Hornets are likely Classified in terms of the upgraded avionics, outside of the known items, there are many new items that are still classified

Also the order is about to be reduced to 15 fighters from 19, which was dropped to 19 from 25 and to 25 from 30,

USMC may have to face facts, as far as US Navy and funding is concerned, the Legacy Hornet is dead. why dump money into it and upgrade it only to retire it in 8 years, by time the last C+ comes back to the USMC it will fly for 4 years. One of them has already crashed and isnt recoverable, so that will make 14 total C+ Hornets, if anything, they can use them as a buffer aircraft between the hornet and the F-35, because the C+s will never go on another navy deployment, so there's little point to even having them.


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1 hour ago, SkateZilla said:

C+ Hornets are likely Classified in terms of the upgraded avionics, outside of the known items, there are many new items that are still classified

Then if possible they can just add in the things that are publically known. The 54 can be approximated, the rest of the stuff I mentioned is pretty easy to change and we'd have an upgrade just from those items. The A-10 is also only getting a small fraction of the real capabilities and many, many things can't be implemented to our version.

 

As for the second part of your answer, I gotta admit, I don't quite understand why any of that means that it wouldn't be possible for DCS.

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It's even more than that, 2 versions of the F-4E plus the naval Phantom and then the other platforms. If the Strike Eagle turns out well, Razbam may attempt it one day but even they are neck deep in different projects. TBH, I'd rather see a paid update to our Charlie Hornet, A-10 style. Having a newer C+ USMC jet with GBU 54, better HOTAS functions and smaller improvements (double altitude readout, AOA readout when trimming), colored DDIs and so on. In fact, having a paid update may incentivize ED to revisit the current deficiencies in certain systems of the Hornet, like the INS-navigation suite or the radar workflow or the lack of MSI.
Let's see if ED can finish the current Lot 20 Hornet first. If they do a good job delivering that, I'd definitely pay for an upgrade, whether we're talking about a C+ or just a mid-to-late 2010s avionics upgrade, like in the A-10C 2. As it is, I'm not paying for an upgrade to a half-finished module.

I would also be more than happy to pay full price for a Rhino module from ED, provided they finish the Hornet first (as a proof of concept) or from another developer (obviously the Hornet's status wouldn't matter, if it's another dev).
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dont see the point of a C+, its a low production variant that wont be deployed.

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17 hours ago, SkateZilla said:
dont see the point of a C+, its a low production variant that wont be deployed.

Yeah, I'm not hung up on the C+ specifically, call it a late 2010s C, an A++, a CF-18, F/A-18 F or whatever. If it's going to be an upgrade from ED to the current Lot 20 Charlie Hornet, similar to the A-10C II, they should first properly finish the current Hornet first.

But this is of course not important if another dev picks it up a Rhino.


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6 minutes ago, Harker said:

But this is of course not important if another dev picks it up a Rhino.

I speculate (and emphasize this word) that the issue with the Hornet is that it was full of new tech that required ED to make completely new API for certain functions that were never supported before. And due to that, they must have blown through the budget allocated for the Hornet. Plus, when initially doing certain systems, they probably didn't have the full picture (or had imprecise SMEs or documentation) which lead to a fundamental misunderstanding of what MSI is in the Hornet alongside many smaller things. Having an upgraded version would probably allow them to have enough resources to properly finish at least some of the pressing issues.

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14 hours ago, WobblyFlops said:

I speculate (and emphasize this word) that the issue with the Hornet is that it was full of new tech that required ED to make completely new API for certain functions that were never supported before. And due to that, they must have blown through the budget allocated for the Hornet. Plus, when initially doing certain systems, they probably didn't have the full picture (or had imprecise SMEs or documentation) which lead to a fundamental misunderstanding of what MSI is in the Hornet alongside many smaller things. Having an upgraded version would probably allow them to have enough resources to properly finish at least some of the pressing issues.

The budget for core API development should be separate from individual project (module) budget, since it is not specific to one project (module). And literature review is an essential first step of any such project and has its own budgeted hours, same as everything else. If what you said turned out to be true, then it would point to very bad practices, both from the upper  management (project planning, hour planning) and the development/team leading sides (bad literature review and implementing stuff without consulting manuals). At least some of this is probably the case and if it it is, then the company will have to take the hit and still deliver the product they charged for. That's fine, managers can make mistake and employees aren't perfect all the time, it's human. The motivation to be the perfect employee is not always at 100% and that's just part of reality, no matter the industry. I'm more interested to see how they handle that though, because if they don't take the hit and deliver anyway, then it gives me no indication that it won't be repeated. Furthermore, if they cannot flesh out the systems of a Legacy Hornet, then I doubt they can do so for a Rhino.

But again, if they deliver on the Hornet and then announce a Rhino (or an upgrade to the Hornet), I'll be the first to buy it.

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On 2/12/2022 at 8:45 PM, SkateZilla said:

C+ Hornets are likely Classified in terms of the upgraded avionics, outside of the known items, there are many new items that are still classified

Also the order is about to be reduced to 15 fighters from 19, which was dropped to 19 from 25 and to 25 from 30,

USMC may have to face facts, as far as US Navy and funding is concerned, the Legacy Hornet is dead. why dump money into it and upgrade it only to retire it in 8 years, by time the last C+ comes back to the USMC it will fly for 4 years. One of them has already crashed and isnt recoverable, so that will make 14 total C+ Hornets, if anything, they can use them as a buffer aircraft between the hornet and the F-35, because the C+s will never go on another navy deployment, so there's little point to even having them.

 

 

I think you miss the point of the C+ .  It's not an upgrade to make it a frontline fighter.... it's a cheap upgrade of an old paid-for airframe, to allow cheap state-side TRAINING flights in a "future cockpit" airframe. I'll bet it will be used to introduce future F-35 pilots to that style "sensor fusion" and situational awareness workflow... not in a simulator but a real afterburning, G pulling Mach + fighter. A "flying simulator" if you will.

It's cheaper than a Super, and can do most of the training for Super. Using parts that are gonna soon be out of the system, parts long ago paid for. Basically, by spending a little on the upgrade, they save the taxpayer a lot, and get some remaining value from millions already spent. And the minute it costs more than it's worth, they'll be dropped like it's hot! 

It was never about upgrading to deploy, it was likely about concern over airframe hours on the Superhornets, wanting to extend the life of those frames by offloading thousands of hours onto old airframes that otherwise would be scrapped anyway. Really this is about saving money for the budgets, it's smart financially. And operationally for saving the Supers' wear and tear, maintenance costs and airframe hours. They'll drain the last of the Legacy parts, and one by one as they are no longer flyable they will be retired. 

 

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2 hours ago, Rick50 said:

 

I think you miss the point of the C+ .  It's not an upgrade to make it a frontline fighter.... it's a cheap upgrade of an old paid-for airframe, to allow cheap state-side TRAINING flights in a "future cockpit" airframe. I'll bet it will be used to introduce future F-35 pilots to that style "sensor fusion" and situational awareness workflow... not in a simulator but a real afterburning, G pulling Mach + fighter. A "flying simulator" if you will.

It's cheaper than a Super, and can do most of the training for Super. Using parts that are gonna soon be out of the system, parts long ago paid for. Basically, by spending a little on the upgrade, they save the taxpayer a lot, and get some remaining value from millions already spent. And the minute it costs more than it's worth, they'll be dropped like it's hot! 

It was never about upgrading to deploy, it was likely about concern over airframe hours on the Super hornets, wanting to extend the life of those frames by offloading thousands of hours onto old airframes that otherwise would be scrapped anyway. Really this is about saving money for the budgets, it's smart financially. And operationally for saving the Supers' wear and tear, maintenance costs and airframe hours. They'll drain the last of the Legacy parts, and one by one as they are no longer flyable they will be retired. 

 

Umm,

The C+ was supposed to be 30 Airframes, Upgraded and extended to 8K Hours, enough to field 2 Sqns until F-35B/C's are all delivered (which are now delayed).

Those Sqns were also supposed to Deploy with the USN, however, the USN already announced after the Legacy Hornet Rapid Retirement to aid in USMC Fleet Readiness issues, that the USN will not be carrying any Legacy Hornet maintenance or fleet supplement items on their deployments.

USN Dropped it from 30 to 25 to 19 then to 15 airframes being upgraded, and the final number will be 14, as 1 has crashed and is not recoverable.
Originally they wanted the USMC Hornets to be able to be close to the super hornet blocks on deployment, but since they are not longer going to be used on deployments, the USN has slowly reduced the number of airframes they want upgraded.

It'd be better off as a Trainer for Pilots wanting to transition to USN Super Hornets,
As the C+ is literally a C airframe retrofitted with the Late Block II Lot 28 Equiv. Cockpit Systems and Displays, with exception of the Radar (which was scheduled to be updated with OFP-29C+), Current APG-79 will not fit in a -C nose housing, -79v4 is reduced in size for legacy hornets, and USMC would be upgrading about half their fleet to AESA -79v4s, but even that is now being suspended after the initial 9 were delivered.

C+ is pretty much a C Sent back to Cecil Field to be gutted, depot level maintenance, extended to 8K Flight Hours and upgraded to Lot 28 Spec systems.

The F-35B/C is completely different sensor system, and cockpit workflow than even the C+

They can better class it as Boeing Upgrade test program for canada and other Legacy Hornet Operators.


Edited by SkateZilla
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On 2/12/2022 at 12:39 AM, Harker said:
On 2/12/2022 at 12:08 AM, Kev2go said:
in a sidenote Im wondering how is it some Super Hornets have Green font/ symbology. Though most have White?
 
IS this a feature that pilots can choose? or is Green font from an older software suite that still hasn't been phased out? ( this video is from 2018 btw)
 
 

Can't say for sure, but I think it's just a color option. In DCS, you can choose your display font color in the Harrier through the EHSD page, as it carries modern MPCDs.

 

But Legacy Hornets never had an option to change display? they had colour MPCD starting in 1989 introduced with lot 12's and then circa 2003ish  MPCD's were starting to be replaced with AMPCD's. 

 

I have seen footage of some USN Legacy Hornets having white font on AMPCD . So i would assume its option it came only with a newer software suite than what we have in DCS on our legacy Hornet? 

 

jibJsgV.png


Edited by Kev2go

 

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But Legacy Hornets never had an option to change display? they had colour MPCD starting in 1989 introduced with lot 12's and then circa 2003ish  MPCD's were starting to be replaced with AMPCD's. 
 
I have seen footage of some USN Legacy Hornets having white font on AMPCD . So i would assume its option it came only with a newer software suite than what we have in DCS on our legacy Hornet? 
 
jibJsgV.png
I never said that the AMPCD in Legacy Hornets was unable of doing the same, I don't know if it did IRL. I said that the font color in those Rhino videos is probably pilot selectable and not fixed to one color, as is the case for the DCS Harrier. It could be a software feature that was introduced later than 2003 or different LCD panels using the same button interface. I don't know enough to say.

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On 2/17/2022 at 12:54 AM, Harker said:
On 2/16/2022 at 9:23 PM, Kev2go said:
 
But Legacy Hornets never had an option to change display? they had colour MPCD starting in 1989 introduced with lot 12's and then circa 2003ish  MPCD's were starting to be replaced with AMPCD's. 
 
I have seen footage of some USN Legacy Hornets having white font on AMPCD . So i would assume its option it came only with a newer software suite than what we have in DCS on our legacy Hornet? 
 
jibJsgV.png

I never said that the AMPCD in Legacy Hornets was unable of doing the same, I don't know if it did IRL. I said that the font color in those Rhino videos is probably pilot selectable and not fixed to one color, as is the case for the DCS Harrier. It could be a software feature that was introduced later than 2003 or different LCD panels using the same button interface. I don't know enough to say.

Yeah, I can't speak for the F/A-18C but in the F-16C you can set the colour freely for pretty much anything you want in the data cartridge, even the individual colour of different types of symbology on the FCR and HSD. So it's not completely unreasonable that the F/A-18C would have something similar for its colour displays.

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I hope the modern displays/computer have an option for general font color, I still like green better over white for now.

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17 hours ago, Worrazen said:

I hope the modern displays/computer have an option for general font color, I still like green better over white for now.

 To each his own. But I think the white font overlays better over the Moving map. maybe thats just me ( based on mod i used for font change and DDI changes) 

More important than font colour I  certainly prefer seeing TGP and Radar Mapping in Greyscale.

 

 

 

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movie releases have no impact on ED's schedule, nor does it influence anything,

if that were the case, they woulda waited till 2024 for the Iron Eagle Reboot to release DCS:F-16

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