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To defer shading or NOT to defer shading, this is the question...


ac5

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That's the rub... Reading the posts of this forum, one has the impression that almost everybody considers that deferred shading ON is better in ANY case.

 

Well, have a look at the screenshots, in my opinion it is not always necessarily so.

 

Cockpits generally look much better with deferred shading OFF, and so the external views of the planes, and also, with HDR, deferred shading OFF, the “blending” of the sun in front is much nicer, the cockpits get darker. With deferred shading ON, the cockpit stay almost the same without “blending” of the sun in front, as they would be illuminated by some “heavenly light”….

With deferred shading ON, some cockpits, like the one of the BF-109 and the MIG-21 present a wrong night lighting, making them unreadable at night. Overall all the cockpits look fairly fake with deferred shading ON.

And where do we spend most of the time in DCS?

 

Though, overall the terrains look much better with deferred shading ON.

 

It would be nice to pick the good things of deferred shading ON and those OFF and combine

them.....

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+1

 

As it is now DCS 2.5 looks better overall with Deffered shading On, but I´m sure that the sim could be tweaked to look as good without and thus not having to make us compromise AA and get more stutters as an added bonus.

 

I knw that DCS 2.5 is still beta and that the devs will be able to sort things out over time, but the issues with deffered shading combined with MSAA is not new - it was introduced in DCS 2.2 (oe was it even 2.1) and has been around for more than ½ a year.

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Thanks for the replies...

By the way, all screenshots were taken with DCS 2.5 beta latest build.

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What I have done it's turn the trees visibility to = 0

Those Caucasus trees are ugly anyway...

Those in nevada are far better modeled.

Well we can't pretend, Caucasus is free and Nevada is payware.

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Honestly this is no question to me. In terms of lighting, the global illumination of the deferred shading makes the lighting look much more consistent with reality. The PBR materials have their proper characteristics as well, which are completely ruined with DS off. Without DS, the sun is also a basic directional light, making the landscape and exterior views look like a game from 10 years ago. There are still issues with the cockpit light levels and whatnot especially at night, but overall, DS is something i'll never turn off.

 

Personally, I find the ideal look right now is DS with a reshade sharpen filter, alongside minor color correction, if you'd prefer the more subdued look. Either way, we know that many elements are still a wip, and will be improved in a few patches. It's still a beta, after all.


Edited by KCferrari

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I Do not agree at all.

Have you seen how beautifully flying against it the sun blends and - not blends - (when a strut of the cockpit is in the way, for example) WITHOUT deferred shading AND with HDR?

All this is lost with DFS on. The sun is a tiny ball not blending at all.

Moreover, some cockpits are totally unreadable at night.

There is no way to adjust to this.

Where do we spend most of the time in DCS? Looking at the trees?

As long as there are not HUGE improvements in this sense made for DFS, it is definitely OFF for me.

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Indeed HDR does have VERY appealing lighting/shading,

though HDR is dimmed out on the setup page because

it is VERY UNFORTUNATELY AND REGRETTABLY

somehow incompatible with Deferred shading...

The cockpits look far better day or night in my opinion,

with DF shading off.

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Try calibrating your monitor.

 

I often calibrate my monitor referring to this gamma chart.

https://translate.google.co.jp/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ja&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.jp%2Foredisc%2Fmemo%2Fgamma%2Fgamma.html&edit-text=&act=url

The webpage recommends to adjust the monitor to Gamma=1.0 but usually 1.8 to 2.2 works. See the checker images at the bottom of the page.

 

You first have to reset any sharpness setting of the monitor as it prevents checker pattern from disappearing even the calibration has been corrected. Also, any non-default or non-standard color mode might prevent your calibration to be completed.

 

First, try adjusting the monitor to make checker pattern less visible as possible as you can, then go to Nvidia control panel and adjust brightness, contrast, and gamma there. Adjust hardware first, then go to software.

 

In DCS UI. Set Gamma number same to which images you referred to. If you used Gamma=1.8 image to calibrate the monitor, than set it to 1.8. Turn DS ON and Global illumination ON.


Edited by chihirobelmo
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That's the rub... Reading the posts of this forum, one has the impression that almost everybody considers that deferred shading ON is better in ANY case.

 

Well, have a look at the screenshots, in my opinion it is not always necessarily so.

 

Cockpits generally look much better with deferred shading OFF, and so the external views of the planes, and also, with HDR, deferred shading OFF, the “blending” of the sun in front is much nicer, the cockpits get darker. With deferred shading ON, the cockpit stay almost the same without “blending” of the sun in front, as they would be illuminated by some “heavenly light”….

With deferred shading ON, some cockpits, like the one of the BF-109 and the MIG-21 present a wrong night lighting, making them unreadable at night. Overall all the cockpits look fairly fake with deferred shading ON.

And where do we spend most of the time in DCS?

 

Though, overall the terrains look much better with deferred shading ON.

 

It would be nice to pick the good things of deferred shading ON and those OFF and combine

them.....

+1. I couldn't agree more with this post.

IMO, it's all down to how the shading works. With DS on, there is no subtlety in the cockpits. Everything is too contrasty, either too bright and washed out, or too dark.

With DS off, their is subtlety in the lighting. Just need to look at the reflections in the glass on the gauges, or on the metal frames.

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Its best to get used to it, and adjust as needed for that.

 

Need to sort the (SS)AA / FPS problem somehow, though. Can't have it if the environment is full of jaggies & shimmering and creepy-crawling all over the place y'know...

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ac5,

when looking at your defered shading on/of comparison it's pretty clear there are some weaknesses in the pit views and contrasts, But for external views, deferred shading off seems almost like another - older- flight Sim , when compared to the "on" shot..

Your P51D over Normandie external side view shot shows best, what nice things Defered shading ON can do !

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"Red is the best color, and here's the proof, and you gotta agree with me!"

 

You lost me when you said that "trees = 0 and it's Caucasus and trees are ugly anyway". They look very nice and have better performance than 1.5 (that had almost no trees even if you wanted). I guess you're being nostalgic :P

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ac5,

when looking at your defered shading on/of comparison it's pretty clear there are some weaknesses in the pit views and contrasts, But for external views, deferred shading off seems almost like another - older- flight Sim , when compared to the "on" shot..

Your P51D over Normandie external side view shot shows best, what nice things Defered shading ON can do !

 

Yes JABO2009, but have you seen also what HDR can do?

 

HDR is dimmed out on the setup page with DFS on, because

it is VERY UNFORTUNATELY AND REGRETTABLY

somehow incompatible with Deferred shading...

The cockpits look far better day or night in my opinion,

with DF shading off.

 

And again... Where do you spend 97% of your time in DCS? Surely not looking at the nice landscape and trees, but in the cockpit... And it seems that mostly everybody agrees that

the cockpit is far better with DFS off...

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  • ED Team
And it seems that mostly everybody agrees that

the cockpit is far better with DFS off...

 

I dont think all cockpits are converted to support the new engine yet, and are WIP. They may not look perfect right now, but ED will get them there, as an example the Black Shark.

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I dont think all cockpits are converted to support the new engine yet, and are WIP. They may not look perfect right now, but ED will get them there, as an example the Black Shark.

 

Not perfect? At least some of them not usable, especially at night, I would say, with DFS on....

So until ED fixes this, for me is DFS off.

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Not perfect? At least some of them not usable, especially at night, I would say, with DFS on....

So until ED fixes this, for me is DFS off.

 

As long as it's a choice, then no one is stopping you, just explaining that it will be fixed going forward and eventually you probably wont need that choice anymore.

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As long as it's a choice, then no one is stopping you, just explaining that it will be fixed going forward and eventually you probably wont need that choice anymore.

 

Fine... But I guess is going to take years...

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Im sorry OP, but I cant disagree more about DS...DS ON is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better IN ANY SITUATION than having it turned off...it might need some adjustments (or not) but its the most advanced tech and it makes a huge (better) improvement at any level you can think of...all the screens you posted with DS on look way better and more realistic than the ones with it off...also, bear in mind that with DS on you have the ability to use cockpit G.I., which makes wonders in the cockpit while with it off makes cockpit NOT react to the sun light which is obviously not the case in the real life...so, Im sorry if you like it more with DS off (which I respect and can understand), but this is the future and what will make things to look even better at every step.

 

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As long as it's a choice, then no one is stopping you, just explaining that it will be fixed going forward and eventually you probably wont need that choice anymore.

Trouble is that it's not a great choice at the moment. The choice is either great cockpits and poor trees (DS off), or vice versa (DS on). So, IMO great terrain and trees win every time!

I really hope this is all sorted sooner than later so we do have a real choice. I'm sure that ED will get there soon!

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Trouble is that it's not a great choice at the moment. The choice is either great cockpits and poor trees (DS off), or vice versa (DS on). So, IMO great terrain and trees win every time!

I really hope this is all sorted sooner than later so we do have a real choice. I'm sure that ED will get there soon!

 

Not all cockpits are still in need of update, least with my experience.

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