ECM Blinking

[tflash]

Well, I guess the problem is ED does not have much data on ECM pods. What I like very much, e.g., is the 1 minute operating time of the Shkval system, and the fact that when overheated you have to wait.

 

I guess if ED would have data on the "spin-up" time of an ECM pod they would be able to model this to, so that you would have to wait a couple of seconds before it really is active. This way this whole blinking **** would be something of the past.

 

I would also be nice to have a little magnetron sound when the ECM pod is on; and maybe if you keep it on for to long it is not so good for your ability to generate some offspring ;)

[GGTharos]

How do you feel about TrackIR users screaming 'no padlock' while getting a huge advantage in close fights thanks to TrackIR?

 

I mean, I know, a couple people will come out and say 'well you can do it with the hat switch too, it is possible!' but those people are the exception in hat-switch operations, not the norm. ;)

So. Why allow this unfairness?

What about invisible MiGs?

 

I find it very amusing that someone will choose to complain about something, but they'll justify other things at the drop of a hat (and no, I'm not saying I'm innocent of that myself)

 

People also like to come up with examples that plain don't make sense and try to apply them to this situation. Let's recap. If you blink back, he can't do squat to you either, but then, all problems are solved inside 25km. Just like that. And the narrowing of Azimuth, too - at least for F-15s.

 

And yes, I find that 10blink/sec pretty damned annoying too, but since I can't make it stop, I'll just get in BT and punch'em in the face.

[Pilotasso]

why are you guys discussing supported game features that anyone can have?

[GGTharos]

The whole blinking ECM issue is a 'supported game feature that anyone can have' until its fixed. That's why.

 

The devs knew it would drop lock - the programmed it; it's just that a lot of people didn't realize this.

[JonTex]

The whole blinking ECM issue is a 'supported game feature that anyone can have' until its fixed. That's why.

 

The devs knew it would drop lock - the programmed it; it's just that a lot of people didn't realize this.

 

The game is broke? AGAIN!!?? Man ... shooot :mad:. Do the DEVS know? Well when will it be fixed I got some flying to do ? This whole blinking thing is getting all up in my Koolaid and ruining my copy of Lock On. Is everybodies Lockon broke because of this stinkin crap? Im bout ready to swell somebodies eye over this ... just point um out GG .... gonna settle this once and for all.:D

[tflash]

The problem is when people have it macro'd to press E 1000 times, with a .0001 second delay inbetween, so that you dont even see the strobe, yet you are being jammed.

 

 

That's why a simple solution would be for ED to provide a 1 second delay time. Then at least this kind of "creative use of a game feature" would be blocked. No one can convince me that IRL a Sorbitsya or ALQ-131 pod is up and running in .0001 second.

 

And I'm dead sure that if you would do rapidly on-of 20 times the whole thing would blow.

 

Something totally different are the interesting tactics that the red party often uses online: alternating ECM in a 3-ship formation flying at different altitudes. But this on-of thingy, nice you guys try to sell it as decent gameplay, but it's not.

[Prophet]

The whole blinking ECM issue is a 'supported game feature that anyone can have' until its fixed. That's why.

 

The devs knew it would drop lock - the programmed it; it's just that a lot of people didn't realize this.

 

Uh yeah.... so far I have not seen a Dev comment on this issue. So is it really "supported" as you claim.

 

I mean, anyone can use PrintScreen right? So is that now a supported game feature that anyone can have? Doesnt seem like anyone would agree, yet its the same arguement.

 

And like I said, no not anyone can have. Only people that have a programmable keyboard, or joystick.

 

Can all joystick software support this?

 

And as a TrackIR user, I wish padlock was allowed in most servers. I know with the F5 view you can set the distance it locks at, maybe with padlock. Most issues with padlock are it locking on targets behind hills and such, which is not something you can do with TrackIR.

[JonTex]

Uh yeah.... so far I have not seen a Dev comment on this issue. So is it really "supported" as you claim.

 

I mean, anyone can use PrintScreen right? So is that now a supported game feature that anyone can have? Doesnt seem like anyone would agree, yet its the same arguement.

 

And like I said, no not anyone can have. Only people that have a programmable keyboard, or joystick.

 

Can all joystick software support this?

 

And as a TrackIR user, I wish padlock was allowed in most servers. I know with the F5 view you can set the distance it locks at, maybe with padlock. Most issues with padlock are it locking on targets behind hills and such, which is not something you can do with TrackIR.

 

Yea thats all fine and dandy but none of yall are asking for the right stuff here. We need an arrow that points to the guy thats gonna shoot us down thats why we keep dying all the time man.

[golfsierra2]

So if in a first person shooter i go close to a wall and press prone/stand/prone/stand/prone/stand, enter in the wall and shoot ppl through it whyle they cant shoot me through it this aint an exploit or a cheat....you said yourself the game alows me to press prone/stand/prone/stand as much as i like.... L O L

 

riiiiiiight

 

We're talking here abot LOMAC, aren't we ? Other games have other bugs / features to fight / live with....

 

Don't compare apples with pears, please...

[Prophet]

Exploit to exploit = apples to apples.

 

Even though it would be a different game, hes just relating the issues to show how feeble the arguement is.

 

The arguement is, that because the game allows you to do it, then nobody should complain about it, and everyone should just deal with it...... even though thats what the forum is for.......

[GGTharos]

Uh yeah.... so far I have not seen a Dev comment on this issue. So is it really "supported" as you claim.

 

I have, Prophet; as I said I went beyond a post in the Beta forum, and I'm fighting on your side anyway so lay off already.

 

I mean, anyone can use PrintScreen right? So is that now a supported game feature that anyone can have? Doesnt seem like anyone would agree, yet its the same arguement.

 

And quite using this as an argument already. ECM strobing doesn't cause an issue that cannot be dealt with.

 

And like I said, no not anyone can have. Only people that have a programmable keyboard, or joystick.

 

Can all joystick software support this?

 

It doesn't matter, anyone can do it, albeit it isn't convenient.

 

And as a TrackIR user, I wish padlock was allowed in most servers. I know with the F5 view you can set the distance it locks at, maybe with padlock. Most issues with padlock are it locking on targets behind hills and such, which is not something you can do with TrackIR.

 

People whined about all sorts of things with padlock - padlocking missiles was one. The hills thing - limit padlock to 2 or 3km and for the most part you're done with that problem. But I digress - most people are pretty adamant that padlock should be off and that's that.

[GGTharos]

Exploit to exploit = apples to apples.

 

Even though it would be a different game, hes just relating the issues to show how feeble the arguement is.

 

The arguement is, that because the game allows you to do it, then nobody should complain about it, and everyone should just deal with it...... even though thats what the forum is for.......

 

His argument IS feeble because he's describing something that is VERY obviously unintended, un-physical, and more importantly, NOT COUNTERABLE.

 

ECM blinking can be readily dealt with and is no more than a nuissance; a nuissance is not an exploit. Otherwise, seriously, let's bloody start calling people who maddog missiles at long range exploiters since real missiles don't work that way - I mean this argument IS THE SAME as the bloody ECM blinking thing. There's an UNREALISTIC means of employing your payload which will give you an advantage, especially against less-knowledgeable players.

 

 

NOW we're talking apples to apples.

[Prophet]

Im not going to layoff when the attitude is "deal with is and stop complaining". Change your tune, I will change mine.

 

Still an exploit. And no maddoging is not the same issue. Its unrealistic to employ a missile that way, but YOU COULD DO IT.

 

And can you please tell me how EVERYONE can do this? Say I have a simple 2 button joystick and a standard keyboard, please tell me how to accomplish the unhumanly fast blinking.

[GGTharos]

Im not going to layoff when the attitude is "deal with is and stop complaining". Change your tune, I will change mine.

 

Live with it until its fixed is exactly what you'll have to do.

 

Still an exploit. And no maddoging is not the same issue. Its unrealistic to employ a missile that way, but YOU COULD DO IT.

And hit nothing. So, it's the same issue and an exploit by your definition. End of story.

And BTW, you can flick your ECM on and off RL, too - really, the thing sits in standby waiting for you to do so if you wanted to. It's NOT the way you'd employ it, but you CAN, and there's nothing saying that ECM can't blank out your radar and pretty much make you lose track of /everything/.

Hey, it doesn't really work out quite that way RL, but you CAN do it.

Just like maddogging missiles.

 

And can you please tell me how EVERYONE can do this? Say I have a simple 2 button joystick and a standard keyboard, please tell me how to accomplish the unhumanly fast blinking.

You don't even need to do it as fast as they do it ... once every half a second if very humanly possible, and has the same effect.

[D-Scythe]

And BTW, you can flick your ECM on and off RL, too - really, the thing sits in standby waiting for you to do so if you wanted to. It's NOT the way you'd employ it, but you CAN, and there's nothing saying that ECM can't blank out your radar and pretty much make you lose track of /everything/.

Hey, it doesn't really work out quite that way RL, but you CAN do it.

Just like maddogging missiles.

 

The point is that IRL you can't macro your ECM to flip on and off a bizzilion times a second.

[Prophet]

No I dont have to deal with it, like I said A2G will do for me. What a waste of all those other planes ED took the time to program. Their loss. BS will come out, lots of A2G missions there without A2A.

 

You and your arguements. How about you just keep it on topic instead of bringing other issues like maddog into it.

 

So you can flip your ECM switch IRL at 0.0001 seconds fast?

 

No, if you flip your ECM by finger at say 0.5 seconds, I can get a lock long enough to at least launch on you. When its blinking so fast you dont even see the strobe the only launch you have is a maddog.

 

So from your logic, I need to use what you consider an exploit (Maddoging) to defeat ECM blinkers?

 

Nothing I can say to that without offending.

[GGTharos]

The point is that IRL you can't macro your ECM to flip on and off a bizzilion times a second.

 

Really? What do you call the ECM software then? It's not the equivalent of a Macro? You can make it do anything you want. That's why it works. If the pilot really wanted to, he could have one of his HOTAS switches configured up to do just that - it's just software; no, the pilot can't do it on his own, and it likely wouldn't be allowed. But heck, you could reach you a little and, while you're just flying your pincer or whatever, you could flick the daylights outta that switch!

 

Maddogging missiles at long range likely wouldn't be allowed, either ;)

[Anytime]

lol yes you can, it"ll just cost you big dollars to change the source code :P

 

 

The point is that IRL you can't macro your ECM to flip on and off a bizzilion times a second.

[GGTharos]

No I dont have to deal with it, like I said A2G will do for me. What a waste of all those other planes ED took the time to program. Their loss. BS will come out, lots of A2G missions there without A2A.

 

Since all you can do is sit here and whine about it, it's your loss, not theirs.

 

You and your arguements. How about you just keep it on topic instead of bringing other issues like maddog into it.

 

Because someone has to show that your arguments make no sense, and actually equate them to reasonable comparisons.

 

So you can flip your ECM switch IRL at 0.0001 seconds fast?

 

I don't need to; that's the point.

 

No, if you flip your ECM by finger at say 0.5 seconds, I can get a lock long enough to at least launch on you. When its blinking so fast you dont even see the strobe the only launch you have is a maddog.

 

Yes, you can get a lock long enough to launch on me, MAYBE. But that missile won't go anywhere near me.

 

So from your logic, I need to use what you consider an exploit (Maddoging) to defeat ECM blinkers?

 

Nothing I can say to that without offending.

 

 

No. You have to use what YOU consider an exploit. You're the one with the problem, not me.

 

I try to get LO to move into a better direction, and I cope with the issue meantime.

[Prophet]

Yeah its just software, which everyone doesnt have in the SIM, and everyone doesnt know about.

 

The only way to make it fair for everyone (as you claim it is now) Is for the servers that allow it to scroll a message telling people how to do it, and whats going on.

 

Likely is the key word, but you dont know.

[TucksonSonny]

The point is that IRL you can't macro your ECM to flip on and off a bizzilion times a second.

 

You would be surprised of how fast I can toggle an on/off switch with my left hand while doing all the rest with my cougar (I don’t need a macro to blink :D )

[Prophet]

Since all you can do is sit here and whine about it, it's your loss, not theirs.

 

Really? Actually like I said, oh multiple times, A2G is fine with me. And your here too, so your loss also then?

 

Because someone has to show that your arguments make no sense, and actually equate them to reasonable comparisons.

 

You have yet to do that.

 

I don't need to; that's the point.

But your point relating to RL, not LOMAC.

 

 

Yes, you can get a lock long enough to launch on me, MAYBE. But that missile won't go anywhere near me.

Another assumption.

 

No. You have to use what YOU consider an exploit. You're the one with the problem, not me.

 

I try to get LO to move into a better direction, and I cope with the issue meantime.

 

You are the one calling maddog an exploit, not I.

 

So cope with it the way YOU want to. And I will cope with it the way I want to, by coming here and bitching about it. Dont like it? Dont read it.

[159th_Dorsk81]

Gentlemen please. I would like other people to express their views. I don't want this to become a street fight between you two with the rest of us as spectators. You have posted equal arguments on this matter and I thank you greatly for your replies. I am sure we would all like to know what others think on this issue and if you have a view please feel free to express it. If anything is going to done to by the developers then a cross section of views I am sure will hold more sway.

[Anytime]

lol see what trouble you've started :megalol:

 

Gentlemen please. I would like other people to express their views. I don't want this to become a street fight between you two with the rest of us as spectators. You have posted equal arguments on this matter and I thank you greatly for your replies. I am sure we would all like to know what others think on this issue and if you have a view please feel free to express it. If anything is going to done to by the developers then a cross section of views I am sure will hold more sway.

[Force_Feedback]

Oh come on, ECM is not even worth being called that way, all we have in-game is some science fiction. In the real world the jammers only jam when a radar signal is detected, and even then it's directional, and frequency specific. There is no such thing like the 'flashlight' jamming like in lomac. The flyables also have various jamming modes, including one for low level flight. And guess what? We don't have any of that in lomac, so how in hell can somebody say programming the hotas software to blink the jammer is realistic?

 

This is not the same as using trackIR or a joystick for that matter, those functions were intended to work with the game by the game's devs, now, programming macros is not realistic, in a real plane it would take more than 0.0001 second to set up the radar for instance.