ECM Blinking

[tflash]

Really? What do you call the ECM software then? It's not the equivalent of a Macro? You can make it do anything you want. That's why it works. If the pilot really wanted to, he could have one of his HOTAS switches configured up to do just that - it's just software; no, the pilot can't do it on his own, and it likely wouldn't be allowed. But heck, you could reach you a little and, while you're just flying your pincer or whatever, you could flick the daylights outta that switch!

 

Maddogging missiles at long range likely wouldn't be allowed, either ;)

 

The ECM equipment is NOT fully digital. The emmitters are mostly analog systems that *will* break if you program your software to on/off it like that.

 

What you describe would in theory be possible with the very latest ECM modes integrated in Aesa radars.

 

What we are talking about is a pilot that switches his ECM gear on/of in an 0.0001 interval. That is entirely bullshit.

 

Don't try this at home: program a little electronic switch and let it fire up and down your microwave oven at 0.0001 frequency.

[Anytime]

http://freepatentsonline.com/5311192.html

 

I think those who use blinking are infringing on this patent! :)

 

 

The ECM equipment is NOT fully digital. The emmitters are mostly analog systems that *will* break if you program your software to on/off it like that.

 

What you describe would in theory be possible with the very latest ECM modes integrated in Aesa radars.

 

What we are talking about is a pilot that switches his ECM gear on/of in an 0.0001 interval. That is entirely bullshit.

 

Don't try this at home: program a little electronic switch and let it fire up and down your microwave oven at 0.0001 frequency.

[tflash]

:D But what do you guys think: does an ECM pod make any audible noise? Like a zooming or the kind of 50Hz sound of a neon light? And the fighter's radar? Should it not give an audible zoom? If so it would be nice to have those sounds if you startup your radar or ECM in Lockon.

[GGTharos]

So tell me ... why is the signal, as detected, called an ECM strobe?

How many pulses per second does a radar (and thus the jammer) send?

 

The ECM equipment is NOT fully digital. The emmitters are mostly analog systems that *will* break if you program your software to on/off it like that.

 

What you describe would in theory be possible with the very latest ECM modes integrated in Aesa radars.

 

What we are talking about is a pilot that switches his ECM gear on/of in an 0.0001 interval. That is entirely bullshit.

 

Don't try this at home: program a little electronic switch and let it fire up and down your microwave oven at 0.0001 frequency.

[golfsierra2]

:D But what do you guys think: does an ECM pod make any audible noise? Like a zooming or the kind of 50Hz sound of a neon light? And the fighter's radar? Should it not give an audible zoom? If so it would be nice to have those sounds if you startup your radar or ECM in Lockon.

 

You mean like an electronic flash buzzes higher and higher when it's charging ?

Yes - would be an absolutely strange, new noise inside the cockpit... LOL

[tflash]

So tell me ... why is the signal, as detected, called an ECM strobe?

How many pulses per second does a radar (and thus the jammer) send?

 

Of course the radar frequency is high, but this is the frequency of a *powered* radar which is emmitting.

 

The discussion now is about powering on/off the radar itself at such a high frequency. Essentially what is done in a aesa array, but not in a conventional radar? And not in classic jammers like ALQ-119, ALQ-131 and so?

[Anytime]

"BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

 

In modern radar electronic warfare, a variety of counter-measures are used by hostile or enemy targets to avoid detection and/or deny range information, the distance between the aircraft and the target. For example, a pilot of an enemy aircraft with an on-board or escort ECM system wishes to avoid being prey to a missile by denying range for missile launch envelope calculation by another radar. A typical radar ECM is the noise jammer which conventionally broadcasts random in-band electronic energy to overcome for a period of time the ability of a victim radar system to detect and obtain range measurements of, or range on, the target being protected by the noise. Methods have been devised to overcome this kind of jamming, as for example, the polarization canceller. Recently, rapidly blinking and polarization agile noise jamming ECM techniques have been developed. Blinking jamming results when the enemy jammer periodically broadcasts powerful noise energy to defeat conventional polarization canceller ECCM techniques with rapid blink rates, because as the radar system's receive polarization adjusts to the jamming noise, the noise disappears. In polarization agile noise, the enemy ECM system switches rapidly between different polarizations of antennas. Conventional Polarization canceller ECCM for noise jamming fails for this jamming technique as well, when it is too rapidly agile, because as the radar system becomes accustomed to one polarization, another polarization is transmitted by the hostile target. "

 

http://freepatentsonline.com/5311192.html

 

I think those who use blinking are infringing on this patent! :)

[Prophet]

I think the ECM suite and Radar suite are seperate?

[GGTharos]

No, this discussion is about an ECM pod in standby being told to start emitting and stop emitting rapidly ... there's nothing about powering the entire system on and off.

 

Of course the radar frequency is high, but this is the frequency of a *powered* radar which is emmitting.

 

The discussion now is about powering on/off the radar itself at such a high frequency. Essentially what is done in a aesa array, but not in a conventional radar? And not in classic jammers like ALQ-119, ALQ-131 and so?

[D-Scythe]

"BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

 

In modern radar electronic warfare, a variety of counter-measures are used by hostile or enemy targets to avoid detection and/or deny range information, the distance between the aircraft and the target. For example, a pilot of an enemy aircraft with an on-board or escort ECM system wishes to avoid being prey to a missile by denying range for missile launch envelope calculation by another radar. A typical radar ECM is the noise jammer which conventionally broadcasts random in-band electronic energy to overcome for a period of time the ability of a victim radar system to detect and obtain range measurements of, or range on, the target being protected by the noise. Methods have been devised to overcome this kind of jamming, as for example, the polarization canceller. Recently, rapidly blinking and polarization agile noise jamming ECM techniques have been developed. Blinking jamming results when the enemy jammer periodically broadcasts powerful noise energy to defeat conventional polarization canceller ECCM techniques with rapid blink rates, because as the radar system's receive polarization adjusts to the jamming noise, the noise disappears. In polarization agile noise, the enemy ECM system switches rapidly between different polarizations of antennas. Conventional Polarization canceller ECCM for noise jamming fails for this jamming technique as well, when it is too rapidly agile, because as the radar system becomes accustomed to one polarization, another polarization is transmitted by the hostile target. "

 

Since when did fighters use noise jamming? It's always been deception ECM AFAIK.

[OldFrankHog]

Im sorry I was not comparing going through walls to ECM blinking. Only that the fact the game enables me to do it doesnt mean it is not an exploit or cheat.

 

But I believe GG is right...live with it until its fixed or find something else to do. As I already said many squadrons will only fly online with theyr own people to avoid the nuissance of these whatever you wanna call them glitch/cheat/exploit/normal feature of the game ;) .

 

Find a good virtual squadron that will focus more on realism and will actually respect the "simulation" part of the game. I know a lot are recruiting. I will proceed to make a post that i hope will be stickied for squadrons recruiting and ppl looking for squadrons :)

[GGTharos]

Since when did fighters use noise jamming? It's always been deception ECM AFAIK.

 

F-18 uses noise jamming. Some like to call it deception jamming too, the difference is likely subtle.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Of course the radar frequency is high, but this is the frequency of a *powered* radar which is emmitting.

 

The discussion now is about powering on/off the radar itself at such a high frequency. Essentially what is done in a aesa array, but not in a conventional radar? And not in classic jammers like ALQ-119, ALQ-131 and so?

 

No, he wasn't referring to the frequency of the radar signal. He was referring to the PRF, and its actually an excellent point. Really, there wouldn't be all that much difference if you pulse on/off every 0.0001 seconds (or whatever it was), the modulator circuitry does that automatically anyway. :)

[D-Scythe]

F-18 uses noise jamming. Some like to call it deception jamming too, the difference is likely subtle.

 

IIRC, only the F/A-18E/F, some USMC F/A-18s and a handful of Navy Hornets have ASPJ jammers. No Hornet prior to the early/mid 1990s had any self-protection jammers.

[GGTharos]

The F/A-18 ECM technician I was speaking with likely recalls much better than you do. ;)

[tflash]

"BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION

 

In modern radar electronic warfare, a variety of counter-measures are used by hostile or enemy targets to avoid detection and/or deny range information, the distance between the aircraft and the target. For example, a pilot of an enemy aircraft with an on-board or escort ECM system wishes to avoid being prey to a missile by denying range for missile launch envelope calculation by another radar. A typical radar ECM is the noise jammer which conventionally broadcasts random in-band electronic energy to overcome for a period of time the ability of a victim radar system to detect and obtain range measurements of, or range on, the target being protected by the noise. Methods have been devised to overcome this kind of jamming, as for example, the polarization canceller. Recently, rapidly blinking and polarization agile noise jamming ECM techniques have been developed. Blinking jamming results when the enemy jammer periodically broadcasts powerful noise energy to defeat conventional polarization canceller ECCM techniques with rapid blink rates, because as the radar system's receive polarization adjusts to the jamming noise, the noise disappears. In polarization agile noise, the enemy ECM system switches rapidly between different polarizations of antennas. Conventional Polarization canceller ECCM for noise jamming fails for this jamming technique as well, when it is too rapidly agile, because as the radar system becomes accustomed to one polarization, another polarization is transmitted by the hostile target. "

 

Yes, we are aware of different ECM techniques, and blinking is one those, but this is not handled by the pilot.

 

No one in this discussion has explained so far how:

 

- a real pilot is switching on/off the ECM gear at high rate, whether it be from standby to transmit or from power off to on;

 

- this would impact HOJ on the hostile aircraft, which it does in Lockon: against this "way of gameplay" you cannot lock AND you cannot HOJ.

 

But enough about this point, I have no new arguments to offer so better lay it to rest.

 

I'm still wondering if a radar unit or an ECM pod produce audible sound in the cockpit? It just would feel "realistic" if you had the impression a system is running. I can imagine that the antenna sweep is audible at least? But the radiation? My microwave certainly is noisy, but has this to do with the magnetron itself or with the power unit?

[Anytime]

Do a search and you shall see.

 

Here's a jamming 101 link for those who care.

 

http://www.myaoc.org/EWEB/dynamicpage.aspx?webcode=GoldCrows_EWTutorial1

 

Since when did fighters use noise jamming? It's always been deception ECM AFAIK.

[504Goon]

I guess you missed the part "server rules"?:)

[Frostie]

Maybe people should swear an oath when they join a server, never to spam ET's ,ECM blink, take-off on taxiways, spam AMRAAM's, beam F15 radars, spam AMRAAMSKI's, use TIR, chaff more than once against ER's, look at EWR DL, engage 2v1 or 4v2, Fly low with just EOS or Kill Hogs and Frogs as long as they don't vikhr and mav spawned a/c.:doh:

[TucksonSonny]

Can someone give me a link please for that Cougar Hotas blinking-macro!

Will it work against AI? :D

[Kindred]

Ok, this is my input. Not that anyone cares...

 

I know there are scripts out there to make ECM blink. I have it, tried it, works, but reverted back due that it does not allows human error to come in play once engaged in the heat of battle. I use the blinking feature manually, since reckon its more human. True maybe in RL the pilot might have only to press the 1 button once. But this is lomac. I call it an exploit, due that this feature is not included as a basic command and was not made available to all, don’t think it was to be intended as such. Allowing you and edge on the rest of the pilots that are not aware or savvy enough to make there own, then this is a cheat in my book. True I live with it, since, as I have no choice. But users’ using it, in my book, lacks goods sportsmanship for it lacks the human error aspect, as is, in its present form in lockon.

 

Hope ED improves ECM features in BS….

 

This is my 2 cents.

[Prophet]

I guess you missed the part "server rules"?:)

 

And how would you know they are using it? Heck I see people bounce around all the time, could just be lag.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Yup, if this action takes advantage of some bug in LOMAC, then its a cheat. The point of this thread should be for ED to fix the bug that gives its user an advantage. :D I'm not convinced that an RL pulse system would give a rat's hindquarters about who, or WHAT, was modulating the RF at a given rate. Modulator circuitry is responsible for radar and ECM pulses, and I'm going to hazard a bet that, IRL, that PRF is MUCH faster than your finger can work on a keyboard key. Its almost as if some LOMAC users have accidentally discovered LPI radar and ECM, and are using it in game.

 

If you are on a server where everybody is using this technique, either shoot back, or don't go to that server anymore. I haven't been on a LOMAC server yet where this type of thing was commonplace...but, then again, I'm a ground-pounder, so I don't get overly-concerned about such things. :D

[GGTharos]

We're talking 600 pulses a second, depending on PRF ...

 

In any case, I've said ... if this is a cheat, so is maddogging missiles at long range, and flying invisi-migs. ;)

It's basically the exact same thing - see, this effect was intended. That a potential abuse of it was not foreseen, well ...

 

In any case, it has been 'on the list' for a little while now.

[Guest IguanaKing]

We're talking 600 pulses a second, depending on PRF ...

 

Exactly!!!:D Can you do that with your finger? I sure couldn't. :D