Joystick in the Center, or on the Side? Which is best and why?

[Snacko]

I have always had my joystick located on the right side. I've had a Volair Sim pit for several years now and it has a racing seat, which is a bit difficult to get out of. What are the Pros and Cons of putting the joystick in the center??? :joystick:

 

Here's what I've been thinking:

 

Con:

I think if I were to put the stick in the center, between my legs, it would be too difficult getting out of the seat. This seems like a big Con, but I could have it be detachable? Do you guys do that? Or if the stick is mounted low, and had a long neck it could be pushed forward to get out of the seat? I don't know if that would work.. :cry:

 

Pro:

I could handle the joystick with either hand. Leaving my Right hand more available to use the mouse in the clickable cockpit. This seems like a good Pro.

 

I am thinking of getting a VBK joystick or some other stick soon, and have been thinking about this more. I usually have to use Autopilot before can start using the mouse. So I am trying to thing of some solutions. I also thought maybe using a Trackball on the left side might help, but I have a feeling it would be clumsy. What do you guys think? :helpsmilie:

[Thadiun Okona]

Which is better? Both.

 

For displacement based controls, center. Your entire body helps stabilize inputs and help provide feedback like some kind of sensory-augmenting armrest. The throw is larger and the lever longer, all of which add up to higher precision for large displacements, particularly useful for flying craft that req holding inputs for any length of time.

 

For force based systems side mount works better. With force sensing your arm stays put on its armrest so you are never making 'free floating' inputs. Compare writing with a pen/paper as normal, now lift your entire arm from contacting the page/desk and do it again. Not impossible, but not as accurate and more fatiguing. With displacement based controls on the side, your whole arm needs to frequently be moved from the position of rest and the short coupled stick combined with a lowered ability to make precise inputs makes it less than ideal, much like lifting your entire arm to write.

 

Which is better, displacement based controls or force sensing?

 

Again, both. Displacement controls work better in light aircraft and helicopters, where you are likely to be making frequent and vigorous inputs, and also making inputs that are sustained lengths of time for the normal course of flight.

 

Force sensing makes more sense when flying craft that are stable and you're just nudging about but also with chances of experiencing sustained G's and occasional abrupt changes in attitude, like an F-16 for example. Human's are better at regulating inputs when it takes much higher forces at lower displacements when getting rattled about. This really comes into play flying modern high performance jets, though some like the F-15 use a combination of the two to have the best of both worlds throughout a wide envelope.

 

There's not one-size-fits all solution because the end goals of different hardware and control approaches are min/maxed to their specific use cases, yielding a wide array of form factors and ergonomic and performance considerations, and with simming also practicality is a consideration because you need to fly your computer on top of the plane.

[aaron886]

If the height of the center pedestal can be adjusted, and you intend to buy a VKB stick with an extension, do it. You'll get more precision from you stick with an extension. If you can't extend the stick, and your Volair Sim chassis allows you to have the stick mounted on your side at an ergonomical height (thigh height,) there's no reason to put it in the center.

Edited February 26, 2018 by aaron886

[dburne]

I went with center mount when I got the Virpil offering. I got their extension kit and desk mount bracket.

 

I fly with 150mm of extension, and could not be happier with the setup and with Virpil. I love this T-50.

[RuskyV]

This is a bit of a tough one because most of it comes down to personal preference and your setup.

 

I centrally mount my stick using the Virpil desk mounts and use an extension to raise the stick which gives it a more natural throw while actually lowering the gimbal slightly to keep the stick at a comfortable height as this feels alot different to just using your wrist.

 

Moving more of your arm tends to give you more control and more comfort, a big plus if you like flying choppers because with a longer throw (extension) on your stick you can get back alot of that really high sensitivity around the center of the stick synonymous to helicopter flight.

 

If you are using a purpose built rig without a desk then my advice to you would be to get the stick gimbal mounted on the floor (or as close to it) and use an extension to get the stick up to the height you want, you could probably leave the stick gimbal on the deck while just having to detach the extension if you wanted to give yourself more space.

 

Virpil and VKB are both high end products and they give you a good deal of flexibility when it comes to creating your own setup the warthog shouldn't be overlooked either.

 

Personally i couldn't go back to using a desktop setup as the difference is actually quite big in terms of fine control. i think part of the reason for making the side stick in the F16 force sensing is probably due in part to the amount of deflection possibly required with the minimal space within the cockpit and i would guess probably for comfort as well.

 

good luck sorting it all out :thumbup:

[wedge_one]

I try to fly with the joystick on the same position as the aircraft I'm flying. If I'm flying the F-16, I use it on the right side. If I'm flying the F-15 or any other, I position the joystick on the center.

 

But I honestly thing that the center position works best because I can hold the stick with either hands, and I saw this video of a F/A-18C pilot doing an ILS landing on a carrier, and in one moment he swap hands on the stick, holding it with the left hand, while he change settings on the right MFD.

 

Edit:

This is the video I was talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSnlWJjRLNw

The moment when he quickly swap hands on the joystick: around 2:51

 

Additional note: the Super Hornet cockpit is very, very sexy.

Edited February 26, 2018 by wedge_one

[Ranma13]

I have both a center mount and a side mount stick. The center mount stick is the VKB MCG Pro with extension on the Gunfighter base, and the side stick was previously a FFB2 and now a VPC MongoosT-50 with a FSSB R3 force sensing mount.

 

If you're going to use a displacement stick, it's best to go with a center stick with an extension. The extension really gives you a greater degree of control, particularly around the center. This is really helpful when doing things like A2A refueling or trying to control helicopters. I don't find it particularly difficult to get in and out of the chair with a center stick, although it will block anything you put in front of it, like a second display. I had to push my second monitor (with MFCDs) back a bit so that I can hit the MFD buttons on it when the stick is all the way forwards (something that you need to do if, for example, the hydraulics goes out on the Ka-50).

 

As for the side stick, I would only use one if you can't mount a center stick, or you're using a force sensing base. Once you get used to the force sensing base, you have much better control over the aircraft than you would with a typical displacement-based base. No more yoyo'ing around when doing A2A refueling, and you can repeat maneuvers with better consistency. We are much better at judging the amount of force applied vs. the distance moved, so it's easier to do the same maneuvers when you have the muscle memory based on force. The downside is that it's difficult to constantly apply a force, like how you need to for WWI/WWII aircraft and helicopters.

[Barefoot Bandit]

... FSSB R3 force sensing mount.

...

 

What did this cost you? (I'm just after a rough figure). And what, what, exactly, is the workaround for "professional use"?

 

edit - NVM - I presume you got the Lightning version. Not as pricey as I thought, interesting, I do wonder how it would perform for space sims.

 

Z...

Edited February 27, 2018 by Barefoot Bandit

[Ranma13]

I presume you got the Lightning version.

 

Yes, I got the Lightning version. With S&H it came out to $700 for the R3 base, and $215 for the MongoosT-50. It's really pricey, but the payoff is the better fine control. I got it because I was tired of the center slack in the FFB2, and the small amount of stiction that I was getting with the Gunfighter base.

[GazAce]

Pers prefs..

 

I have always had my joystick located on the right side. I've had a Volair Sim pit for several years now and it has a racing seat, which is a bit difficult to get out of. What are the Pros and Cons of putting the joystick in the center??? :joystick:

 

Here's what I've been thinking:

 

Con:

I think if I were to put the stick in the center, between my legs, it would be too difficult getting out of the seat. This seems like a big Con, but I could have it be detachable? Do you guys do that? Or if the stick is mounted low, and had a long neck it could be pushed forward to get out of the seat? I don't know if that would work.. :cry:

 

Pro:

I could handle the joystick with either hand. Leaving my Right hand more available to use the mouse in the clickable cockpit. This seems like a good Pro.

 

I am thinking of getting a VBK joystick or some other stick soon, and have been thinking about this more. I usually have to use Autopilot before can start using the mouse. So I am trying to thing of some solutions. I also thought maybe using a Trackball on the left side might help, but I have a feeling it would be clumsy. What do you guys think? :helpsmilie:

 

That’s a good question and I think it depends on a few factors like space, comfortablity, ease of use and even $$$ to a certain degree. Personally my set up was governed by the space I had in my apartment and how to utilise it. I’m happy with my Joystick on the right hand side as my keyboard sits pretty well in between both Throttle and Stick. I guess if I had a big house with a nice groovy man-cave downstairs I would go for a full set up with a centre stick but I’m happy with my kitchen/living room bench creating a nice pit. It’s a good set up for me and works well for my situation and I don’t think I could have my Joystick anywhere else really.

Cheers, regards Gaz :)

[craig_sez]

Holy cripes,that f18 pilot was workin that throttle like he was in an 18 wheeler..

[Boris]

For me it's a no brainer: What's the most realistic?

 

All DCS modules are aircraft that have a stick between the legs. Where is my stick? Between my legs. Simple.

 

Yes, having the stick mounted to my chair is a little bit of a con, but honestly, it's not that hard to just step over it. I have it attached with wingnuts, so if I don't need the stick if I ever play other games, I just quickly detach it.

 

Before I had a stick extension for my Warthog (it's not a good ides to constantly keep removing the extension as the extension cable will eventually break), I had it like this:

 

 

Just remove the grip when not using it.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Boris

[Buckeye]

Joystick in the Center, or on the Side? Which is best and why?

 

Wherever the real things is, for me (below setup works for all current DCS jets as nothing is a sidestick).

 

When (if) I start flying choppers, I'll need a collective. When (if) the F-16 comes out, I'll need to invest in a secondary, non-extended, side stick.

 

From this position I raise and lower the stick depending on where the stick sits in the real jet (the top pic the stick is set up lower than in the second pic where I am sitting)

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited February 27, 2018 by =Buckeye=

[dburne]

My center mounted Virpil T-50 with 150mm extension, Warthog throttle with Monster Tech Mount, and CH Throttle Quadrant for a few extra axis/buttons.

 

For me and the way I fly, this is flight sim nirvana hardware wise.

[FragBum]

Yep where it should be, right!,.. :D

 

 

Now if it was a skid steer loader, that would be different, right. :P

[Barefoot Bandit]

Yes, I got the Lightning version. With S&H it came out to $700 for the R3 base, and $215 for the MongoosT-50. It's really pricey, but the payoff is the better fine control. I got it because I was tired of the center slack in the FFB2, and the small amount of stiction that I was getting with the Gunfighter base.

 

I already have a Warthog and Mongoose, so it's just the base to invest in, certainly something I'm willing to throw a bit of cash at for my simpit, seeing as I'm trying to design it to allow for all options (as much as possible, anyways).

 

 

Thanks for that info :thumbup:

 

Z...

[Snacko]

It sounds like I'm the only one with a bucket racing seat, and that is one of my questions.. If I can make it easily detachable it would not be a problem. Otherwise, I don't know..

 

I try to fly with the joystick on the same position as the aircraft I'm flying. If I'm flying the F-16, I use it on the right side. If I'm flying the F-15 or any other, I position the joystick on the center.

 

But I honestly thing that the center position works best because I can hold the stick with either hands, and I saw this video of a F/A-18C pilot doing an ILS landing on a carrier, and in one moment he swap hands on the stick, holding it with the left hand, while he change settings on the right MFD.

 

Edit:

This is the video I was talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSnlWJjRLNw

The moment when he quickly swap hands on the joystick: around 2:51

 

I am curious how often any of you put your left hand on the stick so you can use your mouse?

 

I know your HOTAS should have all of the most used buttons, so maybe it is not that often. I think most users don't have the expensive sticks with all of those 4 and 5-way hats. Even so, you need to flip some switches or OSB buttons.

 

Since I have an x55 on my right side which works well, I guess I am leaning towards a center extended stick so I can have both. I want to get a VBK Gunfigher Modern Combat Pro when they become available again. I see that they have extension kits? So if I get the normal one, and also buy the extension kit, I can have a choice.

 

BTW, here is my pit too. This is an old pic. I have the x55 now, and also a Bell Collective.

 

[Boris]

In regards to your seat, why not get (or make) an extension that curves towards you, much like a helicopter cyclic?

[Buckeye]

I am curious how often any of you put your left hand on the stick so you can use your mouse?

 

The same way the real pilots would when they need to use their right hand to operate something on the right side of the cockpit...overhand/over-the-top grip to hold it briefly in place, then go back to holding it with your right hand.

 

Watching this video starting at 2:55

 

[FragBum]

Well I have a bucket seat but only have a V_sim pit actually a WIP ;)

 

My cyclic has no centering but stays where I leave it but due to sensitivity of the cyclic needs more or less constant input and yes if I need to use mouse input I need to use my left hand to provide cyclic input, which is an acquired skill to develop especially for low flying. :P

 

I'm not sure for your setup but getting in and out of my seat is for all intents is similar to getting in and out of a small helicopter but not as physically demanding as say an L39.

 

But I like it that way left hand on collective (home brew) right hand on cyclic and VR puts me in a great place and for me just adds to the experience and immersion. :D

 

<edit>

 

Oh and often, heck you have to turn the fan on or off in the Mi-8, enable/disable AP in the Gazelle, a multitude of other tasks in general and seemingly more often when someone is trying to take you out.

Edited February 27, 2018 by FragBum
<edit>

[hansangb]

I try to fly with the joystick on the same position as the aircraft I'm flying. If I'm flying the F-16, I use it on the right side. If I'm flying the F-15 or any other, I position the joystick on the center.

 

But I honestly thing that the center position works best because I can hold the stick with either hands, and I saw this video of a F/A-18C pilot doing an ILS landing on a carrier, and in one moment he swap hands on the stick, holding it with the left hand, while he change settings on the right MFD.

 

Edit:

This is the video I was talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSnlWJjRLNw

The moment when he quickly swap hands on the joystick: around 2:51

 

Additional note: the Super Hornet cockpit is very, very sexy.

 

That's a great video. Now i don't feel so bad that I'm constantly futzing with the throttle! LOL

[GazAce]

Cool! Some fantastic set ups there, thanks for submitting!

G

[Thadiun Okona]

In regards to your seat, why not get (or make) an extension that curves towards you, much like a helicopter cyclic?

 

 

 

 

https://imgur.com/a/1HkLN

[Strut]

:thumbup: This is my "shambles" but i can live with it. One day il get around to organising the wiring properly, but it isnt that bad in RL , When i want to use the Car racing gear i just move the Steering wheel up and slide the chair forward for the foot controls, Works pretty good, but still a WIP. :thumbup:

 

 

[Bearfoot]

The center because:

 

(1) It's the only way you can reasonably have an extension, and an extension simply puts you in another universe of precision from which there is no comparison.

(2) You can hold the stick with your left hand while your right does something else (e.g., scratch that spot on your back, move the cat off the keyboard, grab a drink, etc.)

(3) It's the way all helos, all WW2 birds, and all current and forseeable DCS aircraft have it IRL, thus maximizing fidelity, authenticity, and immersion (above-mentioned drinks and cats non-withstanding ...).

 

I've gone center. There's no going back.