D4n Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Does it start as soon as engine has reached specific RPM or already before that? DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Does it start as soon as engine has reached specific RPM or already before that? It start its warmup sequence as soon as you put the radar operation switch in the P CH position and that you have the ground power connected or your engine have reached ~idle RPM. Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 aaah ok! :D thanks! So without ground power, its basically the moment that my radar screen goes on? DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 aaah ok! :D thanks! So without ground power, its basically the moment that my radar screen goes on? Yes, before that your plane is on battery power and it does not provide power to all the systems. That is why you need to connect ground power while you INS align so you can setup your avionics, warm-up your radar and prevent the battery from running out. Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 INS align is only when the MP server enables it, luckily :P (INS align taking terribly long) DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 INS align is only when the MP server enables it, luckily :P (INS align taking terribly long) Each his preferences, I find it really quick in fact. By the time my coms, nav planing and last minute briefing is done, the Alignment is complete. IIRC in the 2000D the INS alignment can take up to 30 minutes. Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 oh wow... why would it take longer in D than in C? And in emergency scramble, no INS alignment, or? DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 oh wow... why would it take longer in D than in C? And in emergency scramble, no INS alignment, or? IIRC the 2000D have 2 INS and they are more precise so you have to align them for 15 minutes each. It can be shortened but at the cost of precision. QRA aircrafts are "pre-aligned", IIRC in the 2000C the first 4 minutes are done and then the plane is put and standby with the QRA (réseau d'alerte ?) switch. The plane is then powered by the ground power for the duration of the QRA mission. If the plane have to scramble the pilot hop in the cockpit, switch the QRA off, do the remaining of the alignment and take off. Don't quote me on duration, I can't remember if the alignment is done to class 4 or if it's completed and then need a ALCM when the plane goes out of QRA mode. Also you WANT to have your INS working, else you can't synchronize with the GCI and other flights. Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Mirage 2000N and Mirage 2000D have 2 INS, they can align in 8mn like Mirage 2000C. But since navigation accuracy is of paramount importance in strike mission, they perform multiple alignments. Each INS has 3 accelerometers, so they perform 3 alignments on both INS to align each accelerometer to the true north. Also, with 2 INS the drift rate is much lower than the typical 1 Nm/h of Mirage 2000C. (explanations given by a former Mirage 2000N WSO on another forum). Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming X/ RAM 32 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Saitek X-55 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Rift S M-2000C X-55 VR profile / M-2000C custom SERVAL symbols assignation Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 Why would pilot switch off QRA once he enteres cockpit? (I know that INS is must, that why most multiplayer servers have it switch to "instant alignment". Also FC3 aircraft still have no basic "3 minute radar off" forced currently... very annoying :P ) Btw do you use VR? And can you help me with this? (I accidentally switched the FBW gain mode on and then off again) https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3417867 DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Why would pilot switch off QRA once he enteres cockpit? (I know that INS is must, that why most multiplayer servers have it switch to "instant alignment". Also FC3 aircraft still have no basic "3 minute radar off" forced currently... very annoying :P ) I think you misunderstood what I said, the pilot enter the plane, does the alignment up to class 4 then put the plane into QRA mode (nothing is powered appart from the INS) with the QRA switch. When the plane is needed to scramble he put the plane out of QRA mode so he can start the systems. Also I don't fly "airquake" servers (no puns intended, each his playstyle) so I don't have to worry about this, I fly realistic servers/coop mission. Btw do you use VR? No. And can you help me with this? (I accidentally switched the FBW gain mode on and then off again) https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3417867 Will do. Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 ... If the plane have to scramble the pilot hop in the cockpit, switch the QRA off, do the remaining of the alignment and take off. I think you wrote wrong :P DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 So a M2000C vs M2000C scenario is too unrealistic to you? ;) DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I did not wrote wrong : Start of QRA period : pilot starts the alignment, reach class 4, turn the QRA switch on. Scramble : The pilot turn the QRA switch off, does the remaining of the alignment and take off. M2000C vs M2000C with the specific version we have in DCS is not that unrealistic, I think Brazil bought some French Armée de l'Air Mirage 2000C and air to air capacity wise the export variants are not too far from what we have. But it's difficult to have all them at once over the Caucasus in a believable scenario... The above does not concern me a lot, believable scenario is a plus but not a necessity. What concern me are tactics, doctrines, procedures and communication that are almost absent from "air quake" servers (again no puns intended, each one play-style). Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 Oh lol, don't worry, when I am GCI on DynamicDCS server we have our tactics, procedures and communication... (tactics: dragging enemies over our SAMs, not sure what you mean by doctrines, procedures, well ATC of some sort, yet, and definitely a lot communication in our team.) DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHeN Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 It start its warmup sequence as soon as you put the radar operation switch in the P CH position and that you have the ground power connected or your engine have reached ~idle RPM. I'm not sure how it's done IRL, but in DCS we're not able to warm up radar without engine running at certain RPM, even with the GPU connected. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Oh lol, don't worry, when I am GCI on DynamicDCS server we have our tactics, procedures and communication... (tactics: dragging enemies over our SAMs, not sure what you mean by doctrines, procedures, well ATC of some sort, yet, and definitely a lot communication in our team.) I should have mentioned, I'm talking about real tactics, procedures, doctrines and communications. I don't doubt that you have some or even a lot in your server, but for example not doing INS alignment is a big nono for me :). Doctrine is how you use the aircraft in general, like tactics, or mission types... Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 but then why do Harrier and Viggen not require INS alignment? DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I'm not sure how it's done IRL, but in DCS we're not able to warm up radar without engine running at certain RPM, even with the GPU connected. From memory you can :). You have a "engine stopped warm up" that shorten the "engine started warm up". I don't have the times in mind but they must be in the updated manual :). I recall something like : Stopped warmup : 3 minutes folowed by 1 minute when engine is on. Started warmup : 4 or 5 minutes. I'm not sure, don't quote me on this. Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 but then why do Harrier and Viggen not require INS alignment? Viggen does not have INS. Harrier is early beta. Not implemented yet. Hardware: VPForce Rhino, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 but I need INS in mirage to set marker with HUD for bomb release, right? DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHeN Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 From memory you can :). You have a "engine stopped warm up" that shorten the "engine started warm up". I don't have the times in mind but they must be in the updated manual :). I recall something like : Stopped warmup : 3 minutes folowed by 1 minute when engine is on. Started warmup : 4 or 5 minutes. I'm not sure, don't quote me on this. when engine is off and GPU connected (battery on), there are no changes on VTB even after you put the radar into P CH mode [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 but then why do Harrier and Viggen not require INS alignment? Viggen uses a special INS system, it uses a technology called ternav to help reduce the INS drift and it require rather frequent updates to stay precise. Harrier INS is not implemented yet, so no alignment. Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 when engine is off and GPU connected (battery on), there are no changes on VTB even after you put the radar into P CH mode Are you sure ? Not at home so can't check but from memory there is a P in the center of the display. Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 but I need INS in mirage to set marker with HUD for bomb release, right? . DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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