D4n Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 ... to only detect anything below the aircraft, not all aspect? (behind and above is VERY important when being chased by aircraft with R-73 / R-27T.....) Anyone has any ideas? DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 As seen here: DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 That's a huuuuge weakness of M2000C DDM..... DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feefifofum Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 From what I understand, the DDM was technically not installed on the C models at all...it is a D model feature designed to detect surface-launched missile threats. The system is attached to the Magic II pylons, which is why it has a limited FOV. THE GEORGIAN WAR - OFFICIAL F-15C DLC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 ah wow! ok :) You from Razbam btw? DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myHelljumper Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 DDM was designed as an answer to manpad threats, it's not useful in a air-air situation. Helljumper - M2000C Guru Helljumper's Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK3rTjezLUxPbWHvJJ3W2fA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 roger. DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 The DDM was in development by the industry. It didn't receive much attention form official services (funding shortage) until a Mirage 2000N has been shot down by a MANPAD over Bosnia on August 30th 1995. Then the DDM was fielded on Mirage 2000N and Mirage 2000D. Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming X/ RAM 32 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Saitek X-55 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Rift S M-2000C X-55 VR profile / M-2000C custom SERVAL symbols assignation Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al531246 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Then the DDM was fielded on Mirage 2000N and Mirage 2000D. ...and M-2000C. Intel i5-8600k | EVGA RTX 3070 | Windows 10 | 32GB RAM @3600 MHz | 500 GB Samsung 850 SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Nope... It was specifically not fielded on the 2000C. The capability was added but not assigned. Essentially all DDM systems were purchased for and employed on the other variants. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 "all DDM systems" ? How many different M2000 DDM Versions are there? And were DDMs so expensive to produce? (Material costs, production processes?) DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Are military systems generally cheap to produce? M2Ks aren't expected to deal with MANPADS so much since they're far less likely to fly in the weeds. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 But the 2 DDMs are so small xD and what about R-27T/ET, Dassault never expected M2000 to fight against an airforce that has those missiles? DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 What about using you and your wingman eyeballs and some preventive measures? :D The real world is not air quake. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 Well as soon as you're in a 1 vs 2 and I turn 180° and try to outrun enemy MiG-29S towards an allied air base (SAM cover) and he shoots an R-27T at me? ;) (I wasn't in VR at that time, but yes, with VR I could've moved my head sideways and looked behind.) DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) Well as soon as you're in a 1 vs 2 and I turn 180° and try to outrun enemy MiG-29S towards an allied air base (SAM cover) and he shoots an R-27T at me? ;) (I wasn't in VR at that time, but yes, with VR I could've moved my head sideways and looked behind.)Ok, I see that we are not communicating well so I will rephrase: The simulator attempts to simulate real aircraft with their limitations, not your in game needs. If you insist on flying alone that's your problem ... If you don't have a head tracker that's also your problem. Both of those are not an issue for a real air force :) Edited March 10, 2018 by GGTharos [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 aaaah yes true! got ya. DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 From the ECM panel, with D²M switch, we can guess that provisions were to accommodate a DDM at a later date. Prototypes were being worked on. But often in military program, options get scrapped to save money. DDM was only procured in limited quantities for Mirage 2000N & D which were more likely to deal with MANPADs. Bosnia was an "eye opener" for that threat. We got an Etendard IV P hit who had to trap on the aircraft carrier using pitch trim control. A Mirage IV P had a MANPAD which impacted the fuselage between the 2 engine without detonating. And the Mirage 2000N which went down. So far no evidence of DDM on Mirage 2000C RDI. But a lot of player seem to use the module as MUD rather than air defense fighter. Let's say it's a gift for them. Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming X/ RAM 32 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Saitek X-55 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Rift S M-2000C X-55 VR profile / M-2000C custom SERVAL symbols assignation Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 "had to trap on the aircraft carrier using pitch trim control." what does trap mean? What does MUD stand for? Thanks for all the information so far! DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabuzomeu Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Hello, Sorry for the french :-) Trap is landing on aircraft carrier MUD refers to ground attack planes in French air force parlance ( as they are active down in the mud) Details: Asus Z-170E, Intel i5-6600K @ 4.2GHz, 16GB RAM MSI GTX970 Gaming 4G Win 10 Home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4n Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 aaah wow! Did Mirage 2000N pilot survive? DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013 DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.) Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) aaah wow! Did Mirage 2000N pilot survive? Yes, both pilot and WSO ejected and survived. But one of them was injured to the knee on landing, and both were captured by Serbian troops. Eventually they were released, but they spent some unpleasant weeks to say the least. Serbian SAM crew were pretty good, they also downed Sea Harrier (April 16th 1994), 2 US F-16 (June 2nd 1995 & May 2nd 1999*) and F-117 (March 27th 1999). By the way, "MUD" for attack aircraft is rather NATO slang than French Air Force. *Edit Edited March 10, 2018 by jojo Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming X/ RAM 32 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Saitek X-55 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Rift S M-2000C X-55 VR profile / M-2000C custom SERVAL symbols assignation Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al531246 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Nope... It was specifically not fielded on the 2000C. The capability was added but not assigned. Essentially all DDM systems were purchased for and employed on the other variants. The capability is for the entire M-2000 family. It plugs into and aids the EW suite of the aircraft. I believe the system is called 'ICMS', it includes the following; - High-band radar jammer - Spirale chaff/flare dispenser - SAT DDM IR missile detector I'm fairly certain it was fielded on the C in Bosnia, there are a couple magazine / newspaper articles floating around confirming so. Intel i5-8600k | EVGA RTX 3070 | Windows 10 | 32GB RAM @3600 MHz | 500 GB Samsung 850 SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) The capability is for the entire M-2000 family. It plugs into and aids the EW suite of the aircraft. I believe the system is called 'ICMS', it includes the following; - High-band radar jammer - Spirale chaff/flare dispenser - SAT DDM IR missile detector I'm fairly certain it was fielded on the C in Bosnia, there are a couple magazine / newspaper articles floating around confirming so. It isn't plug & play. I found a publication of Gerrelec (French association affiliated to "Old Crows", electronic warfare specialist association) which specify an upgrade to Mirage 2000N ICMS for DDM. So far I only found 1 press article talking about DDM on Mirage 2000C, but no other to confirm, and no picture of it. Which is weird, it isn't a top secret device. I would be grateful if you could share you sources about it. Edited March 10, 2018 by jojo Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI GTX 1080Ti Gaming X/ RAM 32 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Saitek X-55 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Rift S M-2000C X-55 VR profile / M-2000C custom SERVAL symbols assignation Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al531246 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 It isn't plug & play. I found a publication of Gerrelec (French association affiliated to "Old Crows", electronic warfare specialist association) which specify an upgrade to Mirage 2000N ICMS for DDM. So far I only found 1 press article talking about DDM on Mirage 2000C, but no other to confirm, and no picture of it. Which is weird, it isn't a top secret device. I would be grateful if you could share you sources about it. ICMS is the name of the EW suite. There are various version numbers in service. With the ICMS upgrade installed the DDM is as you put it 'plug and play'. The ICMS upgrade package included the Spirale dispenser - the chaff and flare pod on the aircraft where the wings meet the body. Any aircraft that has the Spirale dispenser is equipped / was equipped / is ready to be equipped with the DDM. Any Mirage without the Spirale (most French AF Mirages were upgraded) dispenser has not had the ICMS upgrade and as such cannot use the DDM. As for real life fielding it only makes sense that they would mostly be operational on D and N variants. These are the ground attack variants that would most endangered by MANPADS and that's what the system is designed to protect against (60d elevation, 180d in azimuth). The M-2000C in game has the Spirale dispenser thus it has had the ICMS upgrade and is DDM compatible. Intel i5-8600k | EVGA RTX 3070 | Windows 10 | 32GB RAM @3600 MHz | 500 GB Samsung 850 SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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