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MiG-29


fretwear
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Just curious, is there anything in the works regarding updating the Fulcrum model to say, bringing it up to the standards of Walmis' F-15? Don't get me wrong, the 29 looks sweet but it could use a little refinement. Anybody know? :)

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Oh yeah sweet! Thanks superkungfu... :beer:

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There's an error there. I cant see it. :(

 

EDIT: never mind. I dont have an account, so I cant log on.

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The MiG-29 has bigger T/W ratio ratio, better rate of climb, better instantneous turn rate and similar sustained turn rate. I also think it's FM is undermodelled. It only accelerates adequately in level flight.

"See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89.

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I have to agree, the MIG-29 really doesn't feel any different from the Su-27/33, so I'd have to say at least improve the FM for it.

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Here we go again... I didn't beleive it also, but after seeing some MiG-29 videos it is clear that is more agile then the Flanker.

 

 

It is 'clear' when you have the entire maneuver envelope in front of you. Or, more to the point - it -might- be clear at that point.

'After seeing some MiG-29 videos' doesn't qualify as clear anything.

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It is 'clear' when you have the entire maneuver envelope in front of you. Or, more to the point - it -might- be clear at that point.

'After seeing some MiG-29 videos' doesn't qualify as clear anything.

Well how do you expect me to judge something if I don't see it? Sure, I can see the performance charts, but who can say that they are correct? They might be overestimated or underestimated.

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Uh...the performance charts are made by flying the aircraft in certain conditions especially to get those data points.

 

As such, they are correct, by necessity.

 

 

'Seeing' is so error prone it's basically worth next to nothing unless you're comparing two different aircraft doing the same thing under the same conditions.

 

THEN you can judge.

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I have to agree, the MIG-29 really doesn't feel any different from the Su-27/33, so I'd have to say at least improve the FM for it.

 

No, there IS a difference, dont know how you could miss it. In LOMAC the Su-27 handles better at 500Kp/h while the migs buffet at 600Kp/h and above for lesser AOA and it sinks into higher AOA easier than the flanker. I dont know how accurate this is though.

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Well, this is kinda overmodelled...It should be slightly slower in accel and thrust should be reduced by 5%.

 

According to RL data the MiG-29 accelerates at sea level from 500km/h to 1100km/h for 11 sec.

"See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89.

=RvE=

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...and it sinks into higher AOA easier than the flanker. I dont know how accurate this is though.

 

That was my point exactly- it shouldn't be that way. Right now the MiG-29 is pretty easy to outurn by both Eagle and Flanker. From what I've read about dogfights between Su-27 and MiG-29 in the Russian Air Force(info from late '80s) the Fulcrum has the edge.

"See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89.

=RvE=

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That can't be real can it? sounds incredibly fast - awesome if it is though

 

Well in LO:FC the fastest I did with the MiG-29(9-12A) was 15 sec. It depends on atmospheric conditions but it's close to real. I did the test flying clean plane at 500km/h 30m above the water and I started the counter when I moved my throttle from Idle to full burner. The engine needs about 3sec to reach max thrust.

"See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89.

=RvE=

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Uh...the performance charts are made by flying the aircraft in certain conditions especially to get those data points.

 

As such, they are correct, by necessity.

 

 

'Seeing' is so error prone it's basically worth next to nothing unless you're comparing two different aircraft doing the same thing under the same conditions.

 

THEN you can judge.

That was my point exactly- it shouldn't be that way. Right now the MiG-29 is pretty easy to outurn by both Eagle and Flanker. From what I've read about dogfights between Su-27 and MiG-29 in the Russian Air Force(info from late '80s) the Fulcrum has the edge.

 

How do you comment this GGTharos?

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Here is a diagram of the fighter turn performance in lomac. However, the article is quite old, (1.0x) and i'm not sure if the FM's have been adjusted since then, except for some Flanker AoA performance. As the picture tells, the 29 has the widest turn radius, and also the slowest rate. All the info i have, tell that the 29 can at least match, if not surpass the F-16 at WVR. At least looking at these figures, something tells me that things aren't quite right.

 

air_097a_6t.jpg

 

and the whole article at http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_097a.html

 

When it comes down to 29 engine performance, at least the take off roll and climb times are pretty spot on, based on the information from the 29A flight manual.

 

In any case, a new 3d model of the 29 would rock! It could possibly solve the visibility issue with the current model..:)

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How do you comment this GGTharos?

 

A complete dogfight devolves into low, slow turning fight where MiG-29 has advantage. It's also smaller so it can be harder to see.

 

If you catch it high and fast, advantage should go to an F-15 because of its energy capability ... IF you kill it fast and don't let it drag you down; I don't know if the Flanker has the same high-altitude capability (it's all about the moving intakes!)

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Here is a diagram of the fighter turn performance in lomac....At least looking at these figures, something tells me that things aren't quite right.

 

Yes, I have the article with that picture. It's correct- i.e. it shows exactly the performance of the modeled aircraft in the sim. But like you said it ain't quiet right about the MiG.

 

As for energy capabilities- I would put the Fulcrum, Flanker and the Eagle in one group. They all have high performance engines with rectangular variable geometry air intakes. The Eagle though has greater TWR and should use mainly vertical maneuvers, at least this is what I prefer dogfighting in the F-15 in LO.

"See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89.

=RvE=

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A complete dogfight devolves into low, slow turning fight where MiG-29 has advantage.[/b] It's also smaller so it can be harder to see.

 

If you catch it high and fast, advantage should go to an F-15 because of its energy capability ... IF you kill it fast and don't let it drag you down; I don't know if the Flanker has the same high-altitude capability (it's all about the moving intakes!)

Exactly, the MiG-29 doesn't perform as it should at low speeds.

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You're right. Goon has been doing some significant tests upon my request, and it looks like high AoA, not slow speed specifically - is the culprit.

 

The 'nominal AoA' maneuvering capability is exactly as it should be according to published figures. Once you exceed 20 though you start getting into trouble.

 

On the -other- hand, it would appear that either Russian payload weight and drag is undermodelled significantly, and US AAM payload weight and drag is overmodelled significantly. Some weird stuff :D

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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