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Please bring back model visibility options


lanmancz

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SharpeXB, have you noticed this thread is 99% for it being brought back?

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SharpeXB, have you noticed this thread is 99% for it being brought back?

Threads don’t mean much. They’re only responded to by a minute fraction of players. ED had valid reasons for removing this feature and the votes of 8 or 12 players on a forum shouldn’t sway that. A more valid consensus to look at was that hardly any servers had it enabled, which means the majority of players didn’t like it.

The multiplayer aspect counts for a lot because that’s the Mode where everyone needs to agree upon. Anything can be justified for single player. But mp needs a solution that doesn’t wreck the graphics and the gameplay. So it’s not enough to just make something bad that only a few players offline are willing to tolerate. Any solution for this needs to work for all.


Edited by SharpeXB

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Your like the teacher from the Peanuts comics. wha wha wha wha

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Whatever.

This topic was dead and buried a year ago. There’s nothing new to add.

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While I wouldn't want to see the old system brought back... I would like to see something done to make all users see roughly the same thing. Someone on a 60 inch TV at 1080p has a large advantage over someone with a 35 inch 1440p or 4k monitor with the current system. Distant aircraft should be scaled depending on resolution.

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ED should provide a more effective option or restore the original one. I didn't use it, but I fully understand why anyone would. When I fly VR I am blind until I get very close. Labels are good enough for many, but what about people who don't want to hunt for pixels but also don't want giant billboard labels? If labels are going to be the only way to see distant aircraft at realistic ranges, then they need more options to allow players to customize them to suit ther needs.

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In the two posts above

The first claims that 1080p is an advantage.

The next claims it’s a disadvantage.

:hmm:

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The rift isn't 1080.

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Well, I don't know. I'm a groundpounder, and while the ground units are indeed hard to see as currently implemented, the old visibility system often resulted in my being able to see them as tiny black dots from 50 miles out or something, which was absolutely ludicrous as well. So I wouldn't want to go back to that either since it was completely unrealistic too...

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In the two posts above

The first claims that 1080p is an advantage.

The next claims it’s a disadvantage.

:hmm:

 

The lower the resolution the bigger the "pixel" of a distant aircraft is... then the size of the screen also increases that pixel size. So, yea someone with a large 1080p TV would have an advantage over someone with a 4k TV and certainly over someone with a smaller monitor, which is again impacted by a higher resolution.

 

I hear "other" flight sims handle this much better... so there are ways to mitigate the advantage, but that's over my head.

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@SharpeXB: I really don't see what is your problem. You still speak about multiplayer and about how it gives players advantage, etc. but even you (as well as other people including me in the very first post) mentioned it should be able to be disabled on server for multiplayer balance. That's fine by me. So then there is really no problem for you and I don't understand why you think that nobody should be allowed to use it, even offline. As I mentioned for people with bad eyesight it helps to be able to enhance the model visibility in our offline flying which makes the sim more enjoyable for us. Obviously judging by the response I'm not the only one thinking that. I really see this as a better alternative to labels.

 

So my original request still stands - please bring back the options to enhance the model visibility.


Edited by lanmancz

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The lower the resolution the bigger the "pixel" of a distant aircraft is... then the size of the screen also increases that pixel size. So, yea someone with a large 1080p TV would have an advantage over someone with a 4k TV and certainly over someone with a smaller monitor, which is again impacted by a higher resolution.

 

I hear "other" flight sims handle this much better... so there are ways to mitigate the advantage, but that's over my head.

That’s really not true. The 3D objects you see on your screen are exactly the same size. I hope that’s obvious. A pizza with 8 slices is exactly the same size as one with 12.

And with single pixels, a 2160p display would show a single black pixel whereas a 1080p one would show 4 x 25% grey ones. 1080p is blurrier and objects disappear into the background easier. Extra resolution does not make it harder to see or identify objects. That’s just counter intuitive.

 

@SharpeXB: it should be able to be disabled on server for multiplayer balance.

Then that leaves multiplayer without a solution. Whatever is implemented needs to works in both game modes.


Edited by SharpeXB

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That’s really not true. The 3D objects you see on your screen are exactly the same size. I hope that’s obvious. A pizza with 8 slices is exactly the same size as one with 12.

And with single pixels, a 2160p display would show a single black pixel whereas a 1080p one would show 4 x 25% grey ones. 1080p is blurrier and objects disappear into the background easier. Extra resolution does not make it harder to see or identify objects. That’s just counter intuitive.

 

 

Then that leaves multiplayer without a solution. Whatever is implemented needs to works in both game modes.

 

 

 

Your wrong technically and it doesn't need to work for both games.

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Your wrong technically and it doesn't need to work for both games.

Sure it does. Many players like to do both mp and sp and run with the same settings on both.

 

ED got rid of this feature for a reason. It didn’t just accidentally vanish.

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Then that leaves multiplayer without a solution. Whatever is implemented needs to works in both game modes.

 

Except that multiplayer would have a solution, dependent upon the decision of the server admin. That would make this option align with other options in the game such as labels, etc. So again, your arguments against implementing this would seemingly be addressed provided server admins have the option of disabling this server side.

 

If there's any other reason not to implement it, you have failed to articulate that.

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If there's any other reason not to implement it, you have failed to articulate that.

Well I’m speculating what EDs reasons were. Chances are the effect on mp was a big reason.

Everyone wants improvement in this regard. Many people don’t want something that wrecks the graphics and gameplay.

Maybe one of the ED community mangers can tell us. But if you read through the hundreds of posts on the subject from a year ago it’s not hard to figure out. Bottom line is Model Enlargement didn’t work very well.

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Bottom line is Model Enlargement didn’t work very well.

 

It worked well enough for me :(

Until a "perfect" solution is found I would happily be flying with the models slightly enlarged and enjoy myself.

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Remember how awesome the model-enlargment sprites were going to be? How they were better than Smart Scaling because Smart Scaling is an algorithm from the '90s? New must be better than old?

 

Remember all that?

 

I seem to recall someone replying to every post that didn't agree model-enlargement sprites were the answer...:music_whistling:

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Remember how awesome the model-enlargment sprites were going to be? How they were better than Smart Scaling because Smart Scaling is an algorithm from the '90s? New must be better than old?

 

Remember all that?

 

I seem to recall someone replying to every post that didn't agree model-enlargement sprites were the answer...:music_whistling:

 

 

 

The 90's solution worked very well and still does today.

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I can’t recall if I ever though the sprites were a good idea or not. Perhaps it was worth trying but it didn’t work out.

The whole “scaling” business is a left over from the era of small CRT screens. Flight sims would have been impossible to play at those resolutions without scaling up objects artificially. Times and hardware have changed. Some just can’t let go of the crutch from past games but that doesn’t make those features mandatory for every other sim.

If ED wants to give some clarification on this topic. Great. As for me I don’t miss the feature. The graphics and visibility are much improved in 2.5 so I doubt it’s needed anyways.

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If ED wants to give some clarification on this topic. Great. As for me I don’t miss the feature. The graphics and visibility are much improved in 2.5 so I doubt it’s needed anyways.

 

I think 2.5 is OK for the modern aircraft that tend to be a bit bigger, but the engine doesn't draw the small WW2 fighters correctly. Lots of posts have demonstrated that the engine draws them smaller than they should appear.

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As for me I don’t miss the feature.

Thank you for your input.

 

I doubt it’s needed anyways.

Seems that I'm not the only one who disagrees.

 

Let's leave the decision if it's needed or not to ED, shall we? The point of this thread was my request to implement this feature in 2.5, not to start a religious war of "realism vs gameplay" here.

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It’s worth remembering that this Model Enlargement setting was largely a part of the 2.0 Beta. And was only briefly available in the stable 1.5 release before being disabled. For the most part this was a test of something that didn’t end up working. The fact that it has been removed entirely from 2.5 is not surprising.

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There needs to be something that works for VR users to spot targets, other than labels, which are enormous in VR by the way. If you don't want to use it, don't use it, but don't tell everyone else what they should want to see in the sim. I fly mostly in the A-10 and in VR and not being able to spot ground targets at a realistic distance is very troublesome. What we have now, especially in VR, is not realistic. I can easily see a uncamoflauged car or tank from 5000 feet over the desert IRL, not so much in the sim. It needs to be addressed. Personally I don't think the current situation is realistic even when not flying VR, but it certainly is a problem in VR. I don't understand players railing against something that would make the sim better for others, that they can choose not to use if they don't want to. Kind of like easy flight mode or easy comms.....what's the big deal? Its an option, deselect it if you don't want it.

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