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JF-17 Thunder Discussions


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What is the aircraft did you use to test PL-12 missile?

 

The f-15 (most stable launch platform) as the missile was in the game, but I imagine its a place holder (and not what they have internally, or not the final state of where it should be at least) so ultimately what I found doesn't matter.

 

https://streamable.com/cupzi

 

(Here was the first comparison I did, but like I said, its most likely a placeholder) (Like 99% sure)

I had guessed that maybe the extra burn time to was to overcome certain issues with DCS missile modeling, but even then it overshot the performance of the actual missile (as far as I could find) by a good bit. (And ultimately was getting the range performance the wrong way, not lofting or etc) 122+km (ingame) intercept vs 100km (supposedly factual) against target (and launch platform) at mach 1.2, 10,000m. Obviously I could only compare it to what I know/found, but everything data wise was telling me it was over-performing by a good margin and will likely be similar to the aim-120C on release as it should be.

 

But with what I found data wise, it seems to indicate that it should be better than the Aim-120B and slightly worse than the C. So it should be very comparable, but ultimately, its DCS, we will see how it performs when it is out on launch day.


Edited by ShadowFrost
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I did a lot of the testing on the PL-12 and Ammram, ultimately they are supposed to be very comparable missiles. IRL the PL-12 is regarded to be better than the B but worse than the C from what ive found. So I imagine the PL-12 that I tested was just a placeholder. I imagine upon release that will be where the PL-12 and Aim-120 stand, very close in performance to one another. So it can really be said to be a benefit/negative other than it can only carry 4 PL-12s.

 

The SA of the JF17 may (most likely) be better than the F-16 (DCS RWR implementation is generally quite basic) so it should be as good as F-16/18/15 albeit presented in a similar but slightly different way. It has a rearward missile warning system which is more than the F-16. It also apparently has datalink, look in the forum "tiny news" and youll see pictures. Very similar to how the west generally presents information in their aircraft.

 

It will lack in total payload capacity but will make up in distance of which they can be employed compared to the F-16's payload. The C802AKG will likely be the longest range A2G weapon in DCS if it is released before the SLAM-ER of the F/A-18. (The SLAM-ER and C802 are comparable weapons). They also have LS-6 glide weapons and some other very interesting additions.

 

TL-DR It will have some very interesting toys that can go the distance (generally equal to or farther) than the western counterparts. But it just cannot carry many of them.

It will be a very interesting aircraft and from what I know, it should fit mostly at home with everyone else with the more western cockpit design.

 

Interesting points. I'm personally not that familiar with the specific versions of the JF17, in particular how effective its datalink/RWR systems are compared to western stuff. And to what extent that will actually matter or is modeled in DCS is a whole other can of worms :)

 

I agree it will be pretty comparable capability wise with alot of the more modern DCS aircraft. But I just don't think it will sell well in relation to the F16/18 due to it not being "iconic" as the teen series fighters, particularly if its released at the same time as the 16. Personally I'll buy it specifically because its different.

 

Does it utilize any sort of TPOD? Or other sensors beyond radar (IRST?)?

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Interesting points. I'm personally not that familiar with the specific versions of the JF17, in particular how effective its datalink/RWR systems are compared to western stuff. And to what extent that will actually matter or is modeled in DCS is a whole other can of worms :)

 

I agree it will be pretty comparable capability wise with alot of the more modern DCS aircraft. But I just don't think it will sell well in relation to the F16/18 due to it not being "iconic" as the teen series fighters, particularly if its released at the same time as the 16. Personally I'll buy it specifically because its different.

 

Does it utilize any sort of TPOD? Or other sensors beyond radar (IRST?)?

 

It has a TPOD, but no IRST. (I believe IRL, IRST may make it to block 3).

Now, I dont know how the RWR performs IRL, but DCS implementation is something along "active missile within distance = warning" which is displayed through the RWR however it has been programmed to display. I believe that it is set by a certain range (I havent tested, personally) but when a missile is within say 15km of target. The aircraft will get a warning, where as the missile could have been active before 15km but due to DCS's code, it wont receive warning until 15km or whatever is set.

 

But the above is only what I've heard and haven't personally tested myself.

 

Edit- I think it has a good chance to sell very well, especially if released before the F-16. Though everyday its looking less and less likely. But ultimately, if its as far along as they seem to mention, feature wise it will be very capable on release. And over time, I think will become a favorite of many and earn a good reputation if the quality is there.


Edited by ShadowFrost
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DL pod: send/receive radio for C-802AKG man in the loop controll

It's not datalink for SA, like LINK-16/AWACS/GCI.

 

 

SA datalinks are more software than hardware, they use VHF/UHF radio for message sending/receiving,

 

Block I and II have the same radio device.

 

 

So what you're saying is... the DCS JF-17 will have SA Datalink.... :)

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So what you're saying is... the DCS JF-17 will have SA Datalink....
Sound like it is a L16 D/L like... :) https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4005262&postcount=11

That not surprising for a 2010 figther... Even with IRL "low cost" price... JF17 wasn't meant to be cheap on its features... It always claim to be a cheaper F16 like alternative plane.. Including US Black listed country :)

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We got some movie dogfight of this aircraft:

 

Why they still have fuel-tanks in dogfight

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We got some movie dogfight of this aircraft:

 

 

Hm, make mood on more! Will the film also be released in German cinemas?

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Had a weird thought reading this (and I doubt it’s the case but humor me for a sec): What if it gets completed just before/just after the 16 is set to release? That could be a rough conflict for some that are on the fence on which to buy.

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Had a weird thought reading this (and I doubt it’s the case but humor me for a sec): What if it gets completed just before/just after the 16 is set to release? That could be a rough conflict for some that are on the fence on which to buy.

 

Yeah, that was my thought, their sales will likely suffer if its released alongside the F16 as most people don't know what it is to begin with. Then again 17>16 so maybe some noobs will buy it based on that :megalol:.

 

Also, will it be released complete or as EA?

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Deka seems to be going for complete. I don’t think there is many people who have always wanted the Falcon and would just switch for no reason. I think of it like an event, fly the new F-16 on multiplayer against the new JF-17:)

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Yeah, that was my thought, their sales will likely suffer if its released alongside the F16 as most people don't know what it is to begin with. Then again 17>16 so maybe some noobs will buy it based on that :megalol:.

 

Also, will it be released complete or as EA?

 

Yeah, I think the JF17 on paper can be better than the 16 in some regards. But overall they are very comparable aircraft. I think the main advantage the JF17 has to the 16 is if its released in a more complete state.

 

I think Deka could use some good marketing/trailers before release as everyone I talk to seems very interested in the aircraft its just they have not heard of it before.

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will this have any mavericks? if so how many can we have per pylon ?

Apparently yeah it got C701 wich are small mavericks... Kind of... I didn't manage to get any pictures... For payload here it is... So 4 maverick alike missiles, without TPod... so no extra fuel tank if you take Tpod under belly https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190320/794ce3d2e613ee82ca6b0be422aeec63.jpg

Remember, it is smaller, lighter and still less equiped in multirole fighter class compare to good old F16. Jf is still really young and block III allready on its way IRL to fil the gap from A/G payload. :)

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My bad, here is C701 look.... :) C701 Missile Weapon System Airshow China 2012 Zhuhai

it weight 117 kg, it's 2,507 m lengh 18 cm wide. It got 25 km range at mach 0.8. It's mostly a antiship missiles but can be used as maverick for T version if i refer to https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4000696&postcount=35 Loopack post. And about payload (all of them) https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4000959&postcount=37

Mav is 208 to 302 kg, 2,55 m lengh, 30cm wide. It got from 13 to 27 km at mach 1.


Edited by -P51DMustang-
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will this have any mavericks? if so how many can we have per pylon ?

 

JF17 can't use AGM65, but it has a similar missile, C701T. Air-to-surface missile modified from C701 anti-ship missile. I have a C701 weapon image page published by developers

B3D8D2E8-C8CE-4AFE-924B-F11098D3E31F.jpg.09fbed400c298cad503fd1680c0c5cd6.jpg

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JF17 can't use AGM65, but it has a similar missile, C701T. Air-to-surface missile modified from C701 anti-ship missile. I have a C701 weapon image page published by developers

 

 

so if i was deciding between the f16 and the jf17 for mainly a a2g/cas role... does jf17 triumphs the f16 in this area ?

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so if i was deciding between the f16 and the jf17 for mainly a a2g/cas role... does jf17 triumphs the f16 in this area ?

 

JF-17 should have farther reaching weapons than F16 (C802AKG) and LS-6 (should be slightly less than JSOW in range) but no cluster munitions. But cannot carry as many as the F-16. So it all depends, deep strike it can be better. But in total CAS ability worse.

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JF-17 should have farther reaching weapons than F16 (C802AKG) and LS-6 (should be slightly less than JSOW in range) but no cluster munitions. But cannot carry as many as the F-16. So it all depends, deep strike it can be better. But in total CAS ability worse.

 

F-16 has 2 extra pairs of under-wing pylons and 1 extra pair of centre-line pylons. While JF offers unique AG weaponry including the BRM-1/90 guided rocket system. A system that carries 18 laser guided 90mm rockets per pod. More importantly, the JF-17 should be much more feature complete when it hits early access. All in all both modules are must buys imo.

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