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VR Quality Lowered in 2.5.1.16543 ?


FragBum

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I'm noticing the VR quality with Rift seems much lower with this latest update.

 

I haven't changed any settings but it's not as sharp as it was especially near to mid field visibility, normally the the cockpit of the Mi8 is very crisp now it looks fuzzy and out of focus.

 

Anyone else notice a change?

25116Settings.thumb.JPG.e3893a85038b6430bbd26d419af02333.JPG


Edited by BIGNEWY
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Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Did you used to run with deferred shading on or off before?

 

The option to turn it off has gone now and for me the image quality and performance is notably worse.

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Yes DS was on in prior version, also note that DCS is using only 6.5GB VRAM and only 4.7GB RAM it used to use about 8.5GB VRAM and 8GB RAM so maybe something different about the new memory management scheme?

 

I tried MSAA upto 4 and close in looks about the same as before with MSAA on 2 but for me MSAA at 4 is not worth the additional overhead on the GPU.

 

I'll tweak a bit more, I'm just curious as to whether there has been a change with DCS or something my end.

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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I'm glad you posted this, Fragbum. If they have intentionally taken away the ability to turn deferred shading on and off, I guess I won't be doing any more updates until they get it to actually work. I've got a really good machine now, and one of the first things I did was to turn deferred shading on to see how much "better" it looked, since I figured I now had a machine that would handle it. My first impression was that I had made a terrible mistake in deciding to upgrade my hardware. It became slow and choppy. The images became fuzzy and jagged, like I had suddenly fallen through a worm hole and had somehow gotten my old Commodore 64 back. The colors? All I can say is that I haven't seen colors like that in the real world until the last total solar eclipse we had in the central US. I was relieved to find out that it wasn't a bad choice in hardware upgrades, but a "feature" of the sim that doesn't appear to work the way it may have been intended.

 

I would also like to suggest that ED maybe make a link available to the download of older versions of the sim, so we don't get stuck having to wait for the next update after a major detail gets completely porked and makes the sim unplayable. Who can forget the update that completely overlooked that it might be useful to have some visible buildings? We got stuck with that until the next update came along. Granted, it was only about a week, but the timing was terrible. It just happened to also be the first weekend in months that things had been calm enough for me to finally start getting some sim time again. I was really looking forward to it, the "update" threw a wrench into the whole thing, and there didn't appear to be any way to backload to a previous version.

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Sorry there should be a question mark in the thread title.

 

@ eaglecash867

 

I think this might be something different, I'm fine with Deferred Shading and have been running it for a while in VR and sure I'd like better performance but I don't really have a problem given my hardware.

 

For stutters in previous versions I found when GPU utilisation hits 100% your more likely to get a stutter or three. Apart from my initial tweaking when I first got my 1080Ti i tried to push it at 99.x% and getting stutters and generally thinking the same thing. However I find running the GPU at a lower average utilisation seems to give my system more headroom to complete it's processing in time to present the video frames to the Rift and improve frame rates and pretty much no stutters, albeit @45FPS with ASW.

 

 

As for broken code, in all fairness this is open beta, we're essentially testing it by using it. :D

 

There is also the stable version which might might be better performance wise, however it seems future development will be using Deferred Shading methodology which at least means a unification of for want of a better term a graphics engine (render engine??) and hence better and sooner optimisations.


Edited by FragBum
,typo>

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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I'm glad you posted this, Fragbum. If they have intentionally taken away the ability to turn deferred shading on and off, I guess I won't be doing any more updates until they get it to actually work. I've got a really good machine now, and one of the first things I did was to turn deferred shading on to see how much "better" it looked, since I figured I now had a machine that would handle it. My first impression was that I had made a terrible mistake in deciding to upgrade my hardware. It became slow and choppy. The images became fuzzy and jagged, like I had suddenly fallen through a worm hole and had somehow gotten my old Commodore 64 back. The colors? All I can say is that I haven't seen colors like that in the real world until the last total solar eclipse we had in the central US. I was relieved to find out that it wasn't a bad choice in hardware upgrades, but a "feature" of the sim that doesn't appear to work the way it may have been intended.

 

 

 

I would also like to suggest that ED maybe make a link available to the download of older versions of the sim, so we don't get stuck having to wait for the next update after a major detail gets completely porked and makes the sim unplayable. Who can forget the update that completely overlooked that it might be useful to have some visible buildings? We got stuck with that until the next update came along. Granted, it was only about a week, but the timing was terrible. It just happened to also be the first weekend in months that things had been calm enough for me to finally start getting some sim time again. I was really looking forward to it, the "update" threw a wrench into the whole thing, and there didn't appear to be any way to backload to a previous version.

 

 

 

It kind of sounds like you want the new bells and whistles of an OpenBeta but the stability of Stable. You can’t have both. Sounds like you just need to stick with the Stable install and maybe if you have enough hard drive space install a separate DCS for just OpenBeta. Just a thought.

 

 

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2.5 stable is just old open beta renamed ..... how fast can people forget.

 

 

 

2.5.1 OB runs better, least some mem fixes in.

 

 

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I'm still using 1.5.8 for the majority of my DCS World aviating and all recording.

While I do have 2.5.1, it just doesn't seem to have been tweaked much at all for virtual reality use as of yet.

(For specifics see below spoiler)

It would be encouraging if NineLine could give us at least a heads-up (:doh:) that some issues with VR are recognized, it's on the honey-do list, and to have patience, or something such as that, ... :baby:... :D

 

Maybe, but I feel 2.5.x is better. :D

 

 

 

YMMV. :)

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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It kind of sounds like you want the new bells and whistles of an OpenBeta but the stability of Stable. You can’t have both. Sounds like you just need to stick with the Stable install and maybe if you have enough hard drive space install a separate DCS for just OpenBeta. Just a thought.

 

 

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Todd, I'm currently using the stable version which is where I have experienced the deferred shading issues.

 

The buildings issue was with the OpenBeta, before the stable had been released.

 

If the deferred shading option is still available in the Stable, I'm good with it. Like most people, I like what I like, and that may be different from what other people look for. I'm actually pretty easy to please, just like to have the option of reversing a change if it causes undesired results in my individual view of how I like things to work.

 

I've actually kinda left the Beta behind due to my possible misunderstanding of the definitions of Alpha, Beta, and Stable. The only problem is, without the ability to revert an undesired change, it tends to make me feel less confident in being a pioneer and more likely to adopt a "if it ain't broke...don't fix it" approach to applying the latest updates. Which is why I'm hesitant to do an update to the Stable if the Beta is giving people problems. I have no way of knowing what's going to happen until I try it...and then there's no going back.

 

I guess I'm happy with how it works now, so I won't update until it becomes necessary to access a new feature that I want. It also makes experimentation difficult when you have a limited number of activations/deactivations, knowing you'll have to wait 30 days before you can try again.

 

Sorry I didn't clarify. ;) Also, I apologize for being so long-winded. I try to be concise, but I'm not very good at it, and it usually leads to misunderstandings. :D

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4xMSSA

PD-0

 

For myself in the open beta performance has never been better at least doing what I used to do which is mainly flying round in helicopters blowing things up. In the Viggen over vegas, and elsewhere, has never been smoother, and there is no ghosting in Vegas looking to one side.

 

In a helicopter with the right time of day, it looks fricking fantastic and I really am grateful to be able to have such an experience in VR! Blows me away!

 

However, and someone tell me if this is just me, but at night, or with street lighting activated from a high distance (in planes then) something is badly wrong with the street lights. I get to a certain level and the lights seem to fuse together into a shimmering grid of graphical corruption and it looks god damned awful especially over the Caucasus. Is there a fix for this or does the lighting just still have major problems?

 

So as primarily a helicopter sim I couldn't be happier but as/if there is something wrong with DS, have the devs not taken a big gamble removing us the option to turn it off?

 

Hopefully its indicative of their full confidence in solving the problem!

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Sorry there should be a question mark in the thread title.

 

@ eaglecash867

 

I think this might be something different, I'm fine with Deferred Shading and have been running it for a while in VR and sure I'd like better performance but I don't really have a problem given my hardware.

 

 

Ahhh...gotcha FragBum. I had this graphical weirdness problem (is that the technical term?) with the Beta before I upgraded my hardware. Later, I had other, similar weirdness and discovered that the studs on my HDMI to DVI adapter I use for my Rift were too short and it was coming partially unplugged. Got a new adapter, happily experimented with tweaks in the stable version, and finally turned on deferred shading. BAM...that triggered my memory of the old rig, "I saw this before!" Turned it off, back to normal again. I know the HDMI to DVI adapter is an oddity, but I like to run the video through an extender cable so I can also watch 3D movies in the Rift on my couch. For some reason, the rift didn't like a direct connection of the extender to an HDMI port, but had no issues with DVI. Maybe that's the cause of the deferred shading issue I'm seeing. Who knows.

 

BTW...I wasn't meaning to be overly critical of a Beta. I know why its there. It just seems to me that missing buildings was a pretty big detail. Not tryin to be a rivet counter...and that's fixed now. :D I work with civilian and military aircraft IRL, and the software driving a lot of those EFIS systems hasn't been without its headaches. But, we always have had a way to revert the software in the aircraft if the engineers had missed something. It happens. They're only human. Lots of Airworthiness Directives and Mandatory Software Service Bulletins have been the result of these glitches being exposed in the field. Its how the process works. I'm OK with it. A lot of those fixes came about so quickly though because of detailed feedback from me to the manufacturer, which is my intention here. :thumbup:


Edited by eaglecash867

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Okay I think I have at least resolved the issue, it was most noticeable in the NTTR map indeed anything from mid distance 50 plus meters was kinda washed out. I ended up turning AF off and PD off, and setting visible distance to ultra. Which allowed me to set MSAA to 4 and NTTR looks great as do the other maps. I will do some more testing but just with MSAA @ 4 it's looking good in VR albeit @45FPS.

 

Seems PD was pseudo making more detail and AF and MSAA was attempting to work on the "extra" detail given a blurred edge and looking fogged out on detailed objects mid field and further out.

 

With the latest changes it maybe time to review graphics settings.

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Okay I think I have at least resolved the issue, it was most noticeable in the NTTR map indeed anything from mid distance 50 plus meters was kinda washed out. I ended up turning AF off and PD off, and setting visible distance to ultra. Which allowed me to set MSAA to 4 and NTTR looks great as do the other maps. I will do some more testing but just with MSAA @ 4 it's looking good in VR albeit @45FPS.

 

Seems PD was pseudo making more detail and AF and MSAA was attempting to work on the "extra" detail given a blurred edge and looking fogged out on detailed objects mid field and further out.

 

With the latest changes it maybe time to review graphics settings.

 

PD? As in Pixel Density? You have that set to zero? I'll have to try that. I was sure that doing something like that would make every instrument in the cockpit unreadable. Never tried turning it completely off before.

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Ah zero as in 1 to 1 so not adding stuff.

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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I’m torn after this new update. Should I go out and buy a 1080ti or wait till the new generation gpu comes out or should I get track ir and stop using vr or just revert back to the stable build and wait for a performence patch. I don’t know what to do 2.5.1 screw up vr bad which is a shame because if this did not have vr I would of never played DCS or put loads of money into buys content for the game.

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I’m torn after this new update. Should I go out and buy a 1080ti or wait till the new generation gpu comes out or should I get track ir and stop using vr or just revert back to the stable build and wait for a performence patch. I don’t know what to do 2.5.1 screw up vr bad which is a shame because if this did not have vr I would of never played DCS or put loads of money into buys content for the game.

 

Depends, pending upgrade to nvidia and 1080Ti's are still expensive if none of the offerings in DCS 2.5.1.curent greatly interests you or your systems performance can't handle DS then it might be best to keep to the current stable version until GPU prices drop and or an upgraded GPU comes out or further DCS graphics performance optimisations. I did find that some tweaking of GPU/options improved performance in 2.5.1.current

 

Not knowing your current system and expectations precludes any further speculation. :)

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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You know even a 1080ti has it's limits and max everything is not even remotely possible in DCS. But you say,.. 1080Ti mmm shiny thing. :D

 

 

Updated today outdated tomorrow. :P.


Edited by FragBum

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Actually, I have everything but chimney smoke maxed with DS on and MSAA off. 16X AF and PD at 1.8. Heat blur is off and depth of field is off also no global cockpit lighting. This is all while running 2.5.1 on MP servers. I couldn't do this on 2.5 stable or open beta. It runs smooth as silk but I've notice more blurring in the cockpit and I have to lean forward to see some gauges now where I didn't before. That being said. I can now make out planes and things like antennae towers at greater distances which shouldn't be possible with a PD of 1.8. Most of the MP Rift wearers I talk too run the Rift at low PD to be able to spot targets at greater distances. I don't because I love the immersion of higher graphics in the pit and within a mile or two of the AC. To sum up my experience the last few evenings, visual clarity is better at greater distances and slightly worse up close. Oh well, that's why it's a beta.

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Interesting about spotting aircraft at distance, I have always found PD over about 1.4 limiting at near field, and I'm happier without it for up to 1000 mtrs.

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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2.5 stable is just old open beta renamed ..... how fast can people forget.

 

It ain't a "old beta renamed". The open beta hit the stable roadmark in development and stable branch was updated to latest version, while open beta kept rolling forward like should.

 

Open beta X.y.z keeps going ->

Stable X.y.z -> Stable X.y.z -> Stable X.y.z ->

 

It totally is not "Oh, lets just rename the open beta to stable!" as the whole purpose of the open beta is to finally reach the stable version to be released.

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Seems PD was pseudo making more detail and AF and MSAA was attempting to work on the "extra" detail given a blurred edge and looking fogged out on detailed objects mid field and further out.

 

The Pixel Density setting works like first the game will render a higher resolution of the game than what the output monitor is itself. Then it gets applied all the visual effects like Anti-Alias and such, and then it gets pushed to the display while downscaling it.

 

THis way you get a far better quality out, in theory, as the final display is always tricky thing to manipulate.

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The Pixel Density setting works like first the game will render a higher resolution of the game than what the output monitor is itself. Then it gets applied all the visual effects like Anti-Alias and such, and then it gets pushed to the display while downscaling it.

 

THis way you get a far better quality out, in theory, as the final display is always tricky thing to manipulate.

 

Yes, hence why MSAA and AF has to work so hard because there is more "pseudo" detail to process as there is effectively a higher pixel count then down scaling to a lower pixel count for display generates artifacts as well. Alas no free lunch here.

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Interesting about spotting aircraft at distance, I have always found PD over about 1.4 limiting at near field, and I'm happier without it for up to 1000 mtrs.

 

I've experienced the opposite. Going from 1.4 to 1.7 made such a difference I stopped buying hardware lol. With high textures it's absolutely stunning how much detail you see on things like the seat cushions, canopy ledges and other parts of the cockpit and ZERO jaggies or shimmering. Then again I've flown Falcon and BMS for decades so my standards for graphics are low other than in the cockpit itself which has been awesome since Aeyes released the first superpits with Falcon SP3. I do have issues picking up ground targets above 1,000 feet and in TGP or Mav displays but not enough to kill the immersion or me ;)..

FragBum, have you tried my settings? For shits and giggles I would turn MSAA off, bump up your cockpit displays to 1024, no cockpit global lighting and set your PD to 1.7. See what that looks like. While it is slightly blurrier in 2.5.1 it's still looks fantastic.

Lastly, I've noticed that the weather makes a massive difference in how things look in the cockpit as well. Overcast days look like shit!

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