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AWACS and the CAS Aircraft on MP Servers


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Yesterday, I was online on the RAF Server and was getting bored and so decided to try letting AWACS give me vectors to target while I remain in IRST Vertical Scan. I was flying along the mountains and valleys not really caring if I survived or not, but eventually my plane locked on a very low-level SU25 flying through a valley. To his credit, he managed to launch a r73 before getting hit in the face with an r27et. This guy was being spiked by Blue side's E-3 200 km away while flying at less than 50 m through a very mountainous valley. With AWACS taking all the intelligence out of the search, he had zero hope of surviving long enough to launch anything at a blue target.

 

So my question is this: Why do most MP Servers now incorperate AWACS flights into their missions? Doing so makes all their careful placement of convoys and ground targets irrelavant because no CAS/strike aircraft will survive to get to them, unless he flies on the server practically by himself. Excuse the slight rant but the idea of war is to kill people and break things on the ground. All the jousting at 3000m is supposed to be just a fun sideshow to the real fight.

 

Server hosts, please don't take this as a dis. You guys put a lot of time and money into making the game even more enjoyable. For that, thanks.

 

 

Smokin' Hole

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

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I haven't had any major problems with CAS when I fly with top cover.

 

You mean you don't have a problem with CAS aircraft making it through your screen? If so, that's partly my point.

 

Or,

 

Do you mean you don't have a problem as the CAS? If that's the case, do you give lessons?

 

Smokin' hole

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

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A fighter escort does wonders to CAS aircraft..;)

 

..well, not actually the CAS aircraft, but the aircraft that are trying to kill them..

 

True, but we will never get that level of player discipline with LO. F4AF has it because the dynamic campaign builds missions in packages with CAP, CAS, and SEAD all in the same package--human or AI, doesn't matter. This game is very different and I actually prefer those differences. However, the MP missions shouldn't be built around a concept that almost never exists. I'd love to see coordinated escorts for striking aircraft. But I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it. Experience has taught me that if AWACS or F10 view is allowed, then I just won't consider flying anything other than a fighter. And this is ok. But sometimes it would be nice to be a ground pounder who knows fighters are out there but they will need to be at least a slightly smart to get me, so I have some hope of survival.

 

Smokin' Hole

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

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True, but we will never get that level of player discipline with LO...

To a degree, it's what you make of it. And TS is absolutely necessary. I haven't been online for quite awhile but I recall one mission in particular. Sure I didn't have dedicated air cover but I was getting spiked by enemy aircraft that were closing in. Since I was on TS, I called out my location and heading and asked for help. Three fighters responded. It took a few minutes for them to get to me so, in the meantime, I ran toward them. When they passed me, I reversed course, drove through the hole they had cleared for me, hit my targets and RTBd. A very satisfying flight.

 

Rich

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Thanks everyone. I stopped using Teamspeak on Falcon because I kept waking the baby. Looks like she's going to have to learn to get used to it:) . But even with that level of coordination, I ask again why do we need AWACS?

 

Smokin' Hole

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

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Thanks everyone. I stopped using Teamspeak on Falcon because I kept waking the baby. Looks like she's going to have to learn to get used to it:) . But even with that level of coordination, I ask again why do we need AWACS?

 

Smokin' Hole

Probably because we can,its a different scenario to a whole host of non AWAC scenarios , besides it can be very useful to Mudmovers too in revealing nearest threat positions.

 

I'd rather know where my enemy is instead of hiking 200 kliks in a T to suddenly get ET'd to the Respawn screen.

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I have no problem flying low in CAS A/C, if you are low in the mountains the AWACS won't pick you up. But of course you can't fly low the whole time. So the enemy might get a bleep on you for a few seconds.

 

Apparently the E-3 in LO can burn through mountains. The Su25 that I mentioned in the openning thread was very low in some of the most mountainous terrain on the map. He was headed directly towards the AWACS (obviously not notching), but he was also 200 km away. When I saw him after my EOS locked he was at treetop hight. I'm sure he wasn't always at this altitude but AWACS did keep calling him "LOW" during most of the vectors.

 

If most players prefer AWACS then I am obviously in the minority and will shut up about it.

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

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Or directly in the AWACs' LOS ... ie. the mountains were not between him and the AWACS, but rather the AWACS was looking right down the valley.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Yeah- I lose track of a contact on datalink all the time. Plus when I'm in the hills- I also note the Awacs light on my beryoza goes out, too. (after the 6 second delay) There is more than one type of airborne radar. Maybe the E-3 is still bugged. I haven't tested it or anything, but I know that ineffective terrain masking problems were at least partially corrected.

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Yeah- I lose track of a contact on datalink all the time. Plus when I'm in the hills- I also note the Awacs light on my beryoza goes out, too. (after the 6 second delay) There is more than one type of airborne radar. Maybe the E-3 is still bugged. I haven't tested it or anything, but I know that ineffective terrain masking problems were at least partially corrected.

 

Yeah, I plan on running a test on it tonight...if I can get a break from daddy duties long enough. I still hate AWACS.

 

Smokin' Hole

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

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That's great, but LOMAC is a game. The real world has a myriad of things that the Lock-On world lacks. Part of the enjoyment of Lock-On is to properly use radar/Eos/and position to get a bead on the other guy before he launches at you. AWACS takes one layer of challenge and enjoyment out of the game, IMO. In return it adds nothing but the pleasure of modeling something that exists in a real war. That's ok. The server hosts are spending a bag of money so that I can play online. If they think AWACS/external views/F10 view all enhance the sense of realism and immersion then I will learn to deal with it.

 

Smokin' Hole

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

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I did a little experiment with the E-3. I routed a Su25 very tight along the east coast of the Crimea at 50m. I positioned the blue-side AWACS 100 km away over the flatlands to the west at 7000m. The Su25 remained unseen until he passed a "valley" northeast of Yalta. So, no, the E-3 doesn't burn through mountains but it does ping you pretty quickly through the valleys. Real enough I guess.

 

Smokin' Hole

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

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Hi there ericinexile,

 

Firstly many of us like to think of LOMAC as a simulator more than a game.

 

Secondly if you try our server you'll find that AWACS are far from perfect. Aircraft in the bullseye area (between say Maykop and Sochi Adler) are very rarely spotted by AWACS if they stay reasonably low. The reason for this is the AWACS are quite far away. since 1.12a The AWACS are affected by line of sight and the hills therefor play a major part.

 

For enjoyment weve moved from no externals to having externals on with no padlock or F5 view. F10 view is also disabled. I am sure if you are determined enough you could exploit this to a certain degree. However as AWACS are flying, for the effort it takes it really doesn't make a big difference other than you can take a break and watch your mates fly or the flying skills of others so new guys (and veterans) can learn.

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One thing that's a problem with most of the missions is that the CAS aircraft are all routed to a small target area (usually about 25km wide), with all of the fighters aimed right at the same area. Would be nice now that the servers are getting better is for there to be a lot longer FLOT (100-200km) with the CAS planes assigned to different points along that FLOT. Fighters should also be given a more specific zone for their CAP. This of course would require quite a bit more coordination than you usually find in mp though.

 

Should make life a little easier for the CAS guys, there's a better chance that the CAP will be far off from where they are at--maybe 1 in 3 sorties they would get jumped (just a guess here).

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Ice, Ig, and others,

 

Thanks for the helpful responses. What had me torqued enough to start this thread was that in the scenario that I is was in a few days ago, I was convinced that the E-3 really was seeing through hills. This wasn't the case but rather my adversary was unfortunate enough to by flying down a valley directly headed towards the distant E-3. As GG surmised, the valley put him line of sight.

 

I'd love to see the realism that the server hosts obviously intend with communication a coordination. I think some of that does exist within squadrons as I know I've been on the receiving end of some pretty well coordinated attacks.

 

Smokin' Hole

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

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One thing that's a problem with most of the missions is that the CAS aircraft are all routed to a small target area (usually about 25km wide), with all of the fighters aimed right at the same area. Would be nice now that the servers are getting better is for there to be a lot longer FLOT (100-200km) with the CAS planes assigned to different points along that FLOT. Fighters should also be given a more specific zone for their CAP. This of course would require quite a bit more coordination than you usually find in mp though.

 

Should make life a little easier for the CAS guys, there's a better chance that the CAP will be far off from where they are at--maybe 1 in 3 sorties they would get jumped (just a guess here).

 

Exactly. When the briefing says "Mt Cougar is WP1 for all flights", what it really is saying is, "All CAS flights that make it that far will die in the vicinity of Mt. Cougar."

Smokin' Hole

 

My DCS wish list: Su25, Su30, Mi24, AH1, F/A-18C, Afghanistan ...and frankly, the flight sim world should stop at 1995.

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