A plea to the DCS community: (re-)presentation of women in DCS

[Ryback]

What strikes me is that you find fault in someone asking to be given due consideration - well done for immediately singling out this post for criticism!

 

The way he writes was somehow grumpy may be but he has a point.We are not men and women,we are virtual pilots/gamers/sim enthusiasts.I would like to be sure if the person is female if i'm intended to date her.That's it...

 

... "What I am asking for is not to be tossed aside as irrelevant."

Raven

That's a feeling(and a problematic one).You are responsible from your feelings not the forum members. That's the weirdest comment i've heard in a long time..

 

I really don't know what to think about this entry? Do you need positive discrimination? Shall we check our language? (you can't curse on the forum anyway), "Oh God! There is a female hog driver,Bravo!" kinda reaction? Pink forum theme? More attention?

 

You can't honor equality with naming differences..

"White men can't jump" doesn't mean human beings can't jump.

[MrDieing]

The only thing that strikes me about this, is that you use a joke from The_Fragger as 'argument'. It's quite obvious that he did not realize that you were actually a woman and I get that that is exactly what you are trying to reach with this, that people actually consider that it might be a woman behind the keyboad, but I think its really unfair to publically expose a 3rd Party Developer like that.

[Heesh]

What strikes me is that you're able to genderdize a game that is about machines and physics. Well done!

 

In my opinion she is not "genderizing" a game but making a valid point towards how the community is interacting with each other and in this case with the minority here which is female.

 

+1 for the thread, I fully agree :) Keep on making this place a better place for everyone

[lemoen]

Again, I find it strange that some men feel it necessary to become defensive. All Elysian_angel is asking for is to be acknowledged as a member of the community. Being inclusive to all genders and walks of life never hurt any community.

 

If you want me to change my language so your feelings don't get hurt...no. You don't get to dictate my language (something that has been a prelude to every social engineering atrocity in human history) and if you're really that upset about a completely innocuous colloquialism like gentlemen, I'd recommend toughening up a bit because it would serve you well in the world.

 

Your language is already dictated. You're not allowed hate speech already (in basically every country) and on this forum there are some other rules too, so you're wrong. Telling people to toughen up is an easy thing to say to the minority, think about the reverse, I know, its hard to imagine but just try.

 

Elysian, please keep poking the dudes, eventually, some of us will start to understand how we exclude others (People of different ethnicities, genders, people of different sexual orientations etc), without realising. For those who do realise and still does it, you probably need some help, go find it.

[YorZor]

So you think being a minority is a bad thing? Isn't that discrimination in itself?

I'm white or black, you don't know. I don't care if you know/for you to know. What I do care about is that you treat me as you yourself would like to be treated.

Why differentiate?

 

Hi I'm a girl and I'd like to be treated that way because I'm a girl... that's the wrong way to approach this and apparently western society keeps falling for the same damned trick over and over again.

 

It's the same as women want to sit on board of directors because we need an equal amount of women and men on said board. Shouldnt you be/get there because you have the best papers irregardless of what you are?

Edited May 18, 2018 by BIGNEWY
1.1

[Cisco]

You know what? You are right. I'm uninstalling until this game has transsexual pilot model!

 

Its "LGBTQIAPK" now, you bigot!

 

--

 

No for real tho. Noone cares what sex you are in DCS. Just fly, have fun, if you go around thinking that "everyones cares that i am a woman" then you are going to be the only one who gives a shit and every smart comment on how you got owned in a maneuver kill or something like that is going to end on getting called misogyny.

 

Yeah, pretty much a non issue, the DCS is male dominated, sure, but thats because men likes fighterjets. And thats what we care about when playing this game, jets, and pretty much nothing else.

[HiJack]

Ideally it shouldnt even be an option, except for player model and voice, but all the rest should just be random. That would be a very welcome addition to the game :thumbup:.

Agree. The player voice should be selectable in your profile. If implemented globally this would increase the size of the speech directories but it could also be made available to create "player" speech mods that could be read from the Saved Games Mods folder. :thumbup:

[Stingray87]

What is there even to think about?

 

Reading some comments here makes me sick. It's 2018. Feeling in any way offended for Elysians request is just inappropriate and dumb.

 

+1 for female voices!

[Habu_69]

I suspect 95% of the male virtual pilot community support the inclusiveness requested by Alysian_Angel. Does seem like a straightforward business decision to me, tho. ED must decide whether devoting its limited development resources to providing voice choices and other gender-specific attributes will generate more revenue than, say, improving the AI, developing a dynamic campaign, dual cockpit aircraft or a Syrian theater.

[nessuno0505]

DCS is male dominated, sure, but thats because men likes fighterjets.

 

Maybe that's true. I know there are some men who like crochet, and maybe they read pink magazines full of female stuff, but crochet is female dominated because females like crochet. It's a matter of fact that military planes like men most, and crochet like females most.

[SVK_UVi]

Well, I also prefer more female voicover in game - ATC, AI wingman, etc. But first, I would like to have any kind of better ATC in game than we have now.

[FistofZen]

Another social justice warrior craving for attention?

[Mars Exulte]

As has already been mentioned, there are very few voices, they haven't been updated in forever, and are so backburner in comparison to things that actually matter, like half the cockpits being glazed over so bad you can't see, that it isn't funny. You can't change voices at all.

 

It isn't about neglect or under representation, it's about a twenty year old game ignoring a indignificant possible feature that only comes into play with AI in the first place. As mentioned, there are female voices present, but in limited context and variety, like all the other voices (there's what, three or four total? And one of them female)

 

Female pilot model? Really? Because that bulky flightsuit would show womanly curves? Or maybe long dark eyelashes when the visor is raised? It's military, everything is unisex, I don't think you're thinking this one through, really.

 

As for people being dicks on the Internet, yeah, so what? That's the unfortunate reality. They're dicks because they're dicks, and they're saying whatever they think will piss you off/shut you up/get a reaction. You being female, black, *insert adjective* is irrelevant. I've received tons of death threats to myself and family, insults regarding cattle and incest (because I'm from Texas). If they thought I was female they'd likely throw in additional tailored threats. Insult them back and move on. You're not a specialcase, just because people tailor their inaults for you specifically, the fact it bothers you shows it's working and you need to stop letting them get under your skin.

 

 

TLDR

#1 There's a wishlist thread asking for female voices, throw your vote in there

 

#2 We need to be able to change voices in the first place, so look for a wishlist thread for that, too. In the meantime search for or create a sound replacement pack. Bonus, if you do it yourself it will actually be YOUR voice. I suggest using a radio static mod for TS3 like Crosstalk (I think it is called) and recording the cracklies. I have some recommended settings for it if you're interested

 

#3 There's too much identity politics in the world already, let's not blow things out of proportion here, too. These kind of drama threads are pointless. You get a few pats on the back from non-problem people, a few insults and negs from random dicks, and nothing changes. Dicks won't suddenly stop being dicks, in fact you make yourself a target for additional bs by being visible and advertising that it gets to you.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi

 

I have moved the thread to wish list as it is more appropriate, it is a valid request and I would like to see more female presence in DCS, in voice and models for pilots.

 

I will add, any posts that have been deleted have been done so as they broke our rules, and not for any other reason.

 

Just a note for all, if you intend to reply please be aware of our forum rules before you do, keep it respectful. Thanks

Edited May 18, 2018 by BIGNEWY

[MurderOne]

#3 There's too much identity politics in the world already, let's not blow things out of proportion here, too. These kind of drama threads are pointless. You get a few pats on the back from non-problem people, a few insults and negs from random dicks, and nothing changes. Dicks won't suddenly stop being dicks, in fact you make yourself a target for additional bs by being visible and advertising that it gets to you.

 

While I am sure there are people who are genuinely passionate about their position, this is exactly what I see with this kind of thing. And when these "points" get interjected into threads that are completely separate topics, that's still exactly what I see. While I respect everyone's desire to be whatever, part of the reason I'm here is to escape. This is a part of what I'm trying to escape, and here it is.

[Mars Exulte]

I understand. The only way to escape that, though, is to not interact with other people at all. People suck. That is a reality. Folks think they can legislate people to be nice or something and that just isn't realistic.

 

They're not mean because you're female/black/muslim, etc, they're mean because they're douches and want an excuse and will FIND one. Two thousand years ago, Athenians and Spartans fought to the death despite looking alike, talking alike, and worshipping alike. People are good at finding reasons to be unkind. That is never going to change. Ever. Period.

 

Like I said... insult em back and move on. If you're smart you can bother them more than they bother you =) One guy threatening me in Eve, I convinced him I was thirteen year old girl that beat him, which REALLY sent him into frenzy lol Don't get mad... get even =)

 

-edit

I probably misunderstood Murder's comment, but whatever :p

Edited May 18, 2018 by zhukov032186

[TaxmanTom]

Sure, if it's economically sound to do so, I'd like to have some variety added. And I don't care if training starts with 'good morning pilot' or whatever. To be honest they could be calling me names and I wouldn't notice it over me hammering spacebar to skip to the introduction anyway so I couldn't tell you how they start now if you held a gun to my head and told me to.

 

As DCS continues to grow and be fleshed out, this would be a nice addition.

[Jester986]

@Elysian, you have my full support and I agree the sim could use a little better representation. That being said I thinks its a matter of not expecting the need rather than willful exclusion. What's disappointing though is some community members responses. It's a valid point with valid arguments and it can be respectfully disagreed with but should not be belittled.

[David OC]

I understand. The only way to escape that, though, is to not interact with other people at all. People suck. That is a reality. Folks think they can legislate people to be nice or something and that just isn't realistic.

 

They're not mean because you're female/black/muslim, etc, they're mean because they're douches and want an excuse and will FIND one. Two thousand years ago, Athenians and Spartans fought to the death despite looking alike, talking alike, and worshipping alike. People are good at finding reasons to be unkind. That is never going to change. Ever. Period.

 

Like I said... insult em back and move on. If you're smart you can bother them more than they bother you =) One guy threatening me in Eve, I convinced him I was thirteen year old girl that beat him, which REALLY sent him into frenzy lol Don't get mad... get even =)

 

-edit

I probably misunderstood Murder's comment, but whatever :p

 

Now I don't even feel like putting warheads on foreheads, even if it is simulated now.:cry: I dont really want to bomb people, I promise.;)

 

You guy's are wrecking my mojo now.:D

 

[Jester986]

Women, are killers too. When I was in Afghanistan we had three women attached to us and they had more kills then some of the men in the platoon. One of them a lot more...

Edited May 18, 2018 by Jester986

[streamcap]

I fully support the notion that we should have the choice. If nothing else, imagine for a moment that all pilot and soldier models in the game were exclusively female come next update. Most of us would probably view it as SJWing on a massive scale, right? And yet the opposite is viewed as totally normal. Seems a bit skewed to me.

 

Female pilot model? Really? Because that bulky flightsuit would show womanly curves? Or maybe long dark eyelashes when the visor is raised? It's military, everything is unisex, I don't think you're thinking this one through, really.

 

Just google "sexy air force pilots" to debunk that assertion. No, don't specify "male" or "female" - you will probably find your personal preference, anyway.

 

Another reflection specific to the gaming world: Elite Dangerous has allowed its players to select male or female form ever since launch. There is no impact on any part of the gameplay, voices or otherwise, other than the fact that if you select female and look on your pilot's model in cockpit, it has boobs. That is literally it. Even so, they managed to build a game with that function in it. If it can be done in space, it really can't be that hard.

[FragBum]

Hello and welcome Elysian Angel. :D

[QuiGon]

It's great to see that there are actually females here and it's only fair if they expect to be treated with respect, just like every guy does as well. To be honest I'm often wondering if there are actually any females in the DCS community at all, so it's great to see that this is actually the case. I guess it would help quite a bit if more females would speak out like you did to raise awareness that this is not just a male only club. :thumbup:

I hope your post helps to improve the situation for females within DCS in general, which is about more things than just adding female voices or pilot models to the game as you explained already.

 

And as lemoen said very well:

Again, I find it strange that some men feel it necessary to become defensive. All Elysian_angel is asking for is to be acknowledged as a member of the community. Being inclusive to all genders and walks of life never hurt any community.

[...]

Elysian, please keep poking the dudes, eventually, some of us will start to understand how we exclude others (People of different ethnicities, genders, people of different sexual orientations etc), without realising. For those who do realise and still does it, you probably need some help, go find it.

+1

[Mars Exulte]

Streamcap, that's because the opposite IS totally normal, ffs. Warriors are and have been almost exclusively male for thousands of years, in part because they're bigger, stronger, and more suited to warfare. And before somebody cites some example, yes, there are exceptions and outliers, irrelevant. The average male is 50-60lbs heavier and vastly more suited to it than the average female.

 

Even in countries where women regularly serve, they do so in vastly smaller numbers than males, partly because they don't enlist and partly because given the choice any military with sense would take a 200lb man over a 140lb female. Exceptions for places like Israel that conscript EVERYBODY.

 

This is a game and none of that matters, and there are more female pilots because size doesn't matter or is even counterproductive, so by all means bring on the sound packs. That said, an all male military force IS normal, so yes, changing them all ti women would seem immediately bizarre and out of place, implying otherwise is just ignorant @@

[lemoen]

Why all the reeling Zhukov, MurderOne? I mean, if DCS changes to having pilot models and voices for a bunch of different kinds of people, it would not change your gameplay one little bit.

 

Also, MurderOne, your comment about escaping, escapes me. You want to escape from being civil to other people? Do you think this is some kind of Men's Right's Activist group or something? You may be in the wrong place.