Su 25 A2A

[Invader_Dlorge]

I guess you almost never use A2A in the Su 25 but still.

I now have Flaming Cliffs 1.12a installed. It's been a long time since I played so I wanted to view the tutorials again.

Some require version 1.1 like the su 25 tutorial on the R60 missile. I still started it up and immediatly took control to avoid a crash in the mountains. Next I saw the A10 flying by so I pressed 6(long mode) moved my hud over the target, got a lock sound and orange light and I fired. Target hit!

 

I still thought I was doing something wrong because the crossmark didn't snap to the target. And now everytime I try to do the same tutorial and move the cross over the target in all A2A attack modes (2,3,4,5,6) I get a lock sound and an orange light but the missiles just fly straight ahead and misses the target by miles.

 

In the manual it says that the target gets locked automatically but it doesn't. I can't find in the forum either how to do this .

Can someone explain me how?

 

Thx

[Ironhand]

...Some require version 1.1 like the su 25 tutorial on the R60 missile...

TekaTeka converted all the training to video. You can download it here: Video Version of Stock LOMAC/FC Tutorials.

 

Rich

[Disso]

The frog does not have A2A radar, so for A2A mode, it uses the seeker head of the R60 missile itself. As you can imagine, the radius is therefor very small and limited. You must FLY the hud curser onto the target for the missile to gain a lock, AND be within range. Once it's fired, you must keep it in general position within the curser to keep the lock.

[Kuky]

Actually it's not that the seaker is that limited... when you use A2A mode with R-73 and R-60 on Su-25's the "tracking" or target locating, is done by using the missile seaker itself which is set to something like Boresight mode. This is because the aircraft itself doesn't have an A2A radar and can't use EOS for A2A guidance. If the full seaker range of the missile would be used you wouldn't be able to target specific aircraft ahead as the range would be too great.

 

Boresight mode enables you to pinpoint exact target you want to engage by setting it within very small limits of the crosshairs on the HUD.

[Weta43]

Once it's fired, you must keep it in general position within the curser to keep the lock.

 

Actually, as the plane has no way of targeting / tracking an airborne target other than the seeker on the missile (which is now winging it's way towards the target & not attached to the plane any more), & there is no data-link to update the missiles course, once the missile is launched (as with any other heat seeker) you can turn tail & flee if you want to & the missile won't know or care...

[Pilotasso]

The Su-25 is particulary dangerous plane in A-A. With R-73's you have a fair range, enough to endure several missile launches because its a flying countermeasure wherehowse. If you are caught up under 40Km you can survive long enough to turn arround and send him an archer in his face.

 

I love using it in Airfield attacks where I can fight off fighters that just took off after seing my AG missile hit their defenses.

[3Sqn_Fudd]

one of the best moments I ever had playing this sim was 2 hops and 3 enemy fighters downed while in a 25t... one was high aspect R-60 shot...it's doable, just use cover

[Force_Feedback]

Actually either the radar or the EOS system can designate a target for a missile to lock on to, tracking via missile is only done when a system is not available for target designation (some fluke/nose of the aircraft is gone). That's why the R-73M2 can only be fired from 60 degrees off bore max. The missile itself can see 75 degrees, but since either the EOS or radar can't look that far off, you're limited to 60 degrees (the limits of the vanilla EOS ball).

There is an override mode that will use the missile itself as means of tracking, but it lacks any range finding, so you'll have to guess wether it will hit. BTW, the R-73 in the Su-27/mig-29 should growl too, when used in override mode with a HMS (a mode we lack in lock on).

Hope this clears up the confusion about off-bore targeting and the R-73.

[Invader_Dlorge]

Great information guys,

can't wait to get home and try this. I need the A2A in a mission I downloaded. Stuck in the mountainvalleys with a mig 23 head on. I knew that the su25 doesn't have radar but I thought it used to be easier in Lomac 1.02.

Anyway: thanks to everyone who replied.

[Invader_Dlorge]

I retried it several times now but I still miss each and every missile I launch. I tried ranges between 2.4 km to 0.1 km. I can crash into the other airplane with ease but getting a missile up his a** is impossible. Do I need to switch the EOS on for this? I would think: no because it won't switch on

[pho3nix]

I love flying A2A in the Vanilla and T, just feels more satisfying when you actually manage to place a round on target!

[QwertCH]

I love flying A2A in the Vanilla and T, just feels more satisfying when you actually manage to place a round on target!

 

How do you do that? Outmaneuvering A10? Seems impossible to me. It always sits on my six although lower than me. I cannot get advantage of higher speed and better climb rate. I am loosing too much altitude while doing S-split.

[504smudge]

How do you do that? Outmaneuvering A10? Seems impossible to me. It always sits on my six although lower than me. I cannot get advantage of higher speed and better climb rate. I am loosing too much altitude while doing S-split.

 

 

i guess you need to manage your 'energy' better i.e dont bank to hard stay within the 20 degree bank limits and hold your speed. i very rarely get shot down by A-10's there just to damn slow

[GGTharos]

That's quite right ... their speed is undermodelled by some 80kts or more.

[Force_Feedback]

I retried it several times now but I still miss each and every missile I launch. I tried ranges between 2.4 km to 0.1 km. I can crash into the other airplane with ease but getting a missile up his a** is impossible. Do I need to switch the EOS on for this? I would think: no because it won't switch on

 

This may sound dull, maybe hostile or patronising, but it's not meant that way, but did you play a training mission (called 'Track') for the Su-25 or su-25T?

 

You press '2', line-up the yellow aiming marker with your taget, you hear a tone *beeeeeeep*, you squeeze the trigger/press space, and off she goes!

[Invader_Dlorge]

That is what I do all the time. Maybe it was not clear in my first post but I just start the A2A training track for the SU25. The track doesn't work in 1.12a (it crashes in the ground immediatly) but I take over control, press '2' line up the target get a beep and a yellow light and I squeeze the trigger. Result: the missile flies straight ahead and misses everytime. Strange thing: the very first time I tried this, it did work.

[Weta43]

Try setting up a transport flying straight & level (from your own coalition if need be) & try shooting that down. If you can't do that you're either getting something well wrong, or you're getting a bug.

I have a track of taking something down with the 25-T & I think with the vanilla, but they won't fit in the attachments, so if you PM me an e-mail address I could send them to you to see if it is a bug.

[Weta43]

Any joy with those tracks?

[Invader_Dlorge]

Tracks work like a charm. Target hit each and every time.

I played the SU25t setup of your second track myself. All 73's and 60's missed. Then I replayed the basic R60 training for the su25 and my second missile hit. I was going to make a track of me missing but now I can hit all of the sudden. Let's just blame my incomptetence and leave it at that.

 

Or maybe it's my dodgy joystick. (it's a wingman 3D FF) It's really touchy in the center

 

But I do appreciate all the help I have received

[Weta43]

Try increasing the curve on the responses for the joystick in LO's options page - that will reduce touchy-ness around the middle.